45 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

I ran a casual 2 hour test.

For one hour I jumped into a trial raven, ran directly at the enemy base each round, fighting enemies as i went and trying to cap, but not caring about my safety.

I made about 2.2 mil in the hour.

For the second hour I used my owned CN9-A (which I am very capable in) and tried my hardest. I only managed to fit 6 rounds in the hour. (going over slightly.)

Even with over 12 kills between the matches and multiple base caps I didnt even reach 1 mil after repairs.

I don't think the suicide ravens are the issue, I beleive it is the lack of reward for victory\kills\assists\damage\capping that causes the problem.

90%+ of the cash you make you get for showing up, your performance really dosen't matter.

So why try at all? I'd love to hear thoughts.


PS: I play this game for fun with my friends so I don't raven trial farm, IDC about the money I have the mech I want and by the time I'm bored with it I'll have more than enough for another!

[Vlad Ward]

Honest thoughts?

Most people have no idea how to make money in the current game setup. Even most of the "Teachers" and experienced players out there still think that getting lots of kills and doing lots of damage is the key to making money in MWO.

It's not.

If you want big bucks, you aim for big salvage. How do you aim for big salvage? Kill the meat, save the metal. The more of an enemy Mech is intact at the end of the round, the more you get to sell off as your Salvage bonus. This does not seem to be very intuitive for people for some reason.

Every time you absolutely demolish that enemy atlas, blowing off all his limbs and weapons and coring his engine. Every time you blow off that Centurion's gun arm. Every time you core that XL Hunchback and wipe out all of his torso-mounted guns. Every time you clip the ears off an A1 cat.

Every time you do these things, you are throwing away money.

When I see 1000+ damage games, my first thought isn't "Wow, that guy's an awesome DPS." It's "Wow, that guy is wasteful as all hell." If you want to bring in the big bucks, end matches with the least amount of waste. Make every shot count. Get kills via the cockpit and the legs in order to preserve the engines. Leave equipment and weapons intact so you can sell them off later.

Salvage bonuses can go up to well over 100,000/match on their own, in addition to all the other cash prizes. You just have to know how to work the system.

[V1king]

Vlad Ward, on 30 October 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

When I see 1000+ damage games, my first thought isn't "Wow, that guy's an awesome DPS." It's "Wow, that guy is wasteful as all hell."

I see your point, but the only times I get 1000+ damage it's because I'm in a cat with only LRMs. Haven't paid too much attention, but it's seemed like the ridiculously high damage folks are generally the LRM boats. Since you can't aim those only at CT, I don't think that's the best example.

[RAM]

Official Response

Bryan Ekman, on 30 October 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

We are addressing several known issues with farming.

Trial Mech Locking

• Trial Mechs will now work the same as any BattleMech, they are locked until the match ends. This ends the ability for a macro player to "churn" matches to maximize CB.

Quitting/Disconnecting Early

• You will only receive rewards up to the point of disconnection.

Idle/AFK

• Players that fail to provide any input will be kicked from a match Although it does not prevent a macro player from simply putting in inputs, it forces them to LOOK like a bot.

RAM
ELH
MOD

[Vlad Ward]

V1king, on 30 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

I see your point, but the only times I get 1000+ damage it's because I'm in a cat with only LRMs. Haven't paid too much attention, but it's seemed like the ridiculously high damage folks are generally the LRM boats. Since you can't aim those only at CT, I don't think that's the best example.

I get occasional 1000+ damage games in anything from laserboats to LB-10X+MLAS brawlers in PUG games. Not proud of it by any means, but it happens sometimes.

Even then, aiming for CT still destroys the engines. Engines are nice salvage! Especially those XLs.

[LordBraxton]

RAM, on 30 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Official Response




RAM
ELH
MOD

I like the sound of MOST of this but...

Does this mean after I die in a legit match I HAVE to spectate the rest of the round before I can leave, or else I surrender 90% of the cbills earned (for just showing up) Or do I get the default loss cbills? (60k)

Nothing is more frustrating than having to wait till the enemy chases down the last of your teammates if the match is clearly a loss. I didn't know quitting after you died retained your cbills so I spectated alot of matches I didn't want to during closed beta.

[PaintedWolf]

Saw some ***** run his kinda slow medium/heavy into a group of 4-5 Mechs, and spend 70% (80%, I want to be generous but he ran through them, not shooting back, in a zig-zag manner ) of his time running away after he realized it....

Edited by PaintedWolf, 30 October 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Trial Mech Locking

• Trial Mechs will now work the same as any BattleMech, they are locked until the match ends. This ends the ability for a macro player to "churn" matches to maximize CB.

Possible loophole.

I hop into a light, run to enemy, get killed. light locked out.
Hop in a medium run to enemy, get killed, medium locked out.
Hop in heavy, run to enemy, get killed, heavy locked out.
Hop in assault , run to enemy, get killed, assault locked out.

By then the light should be unlocked. if not, wait a few.


But locking out mechs like paid mechs is a good start.

And while I was wrighting this, why can't I just strip a jenner down to 100 engine, 1pt armor, 1 small laser, just to be 'legal' and run to the enemy every other match?

[Bloody]

aye it does not stop suicide farming btw

[Vlad Ward]

Quote

Quitting/Disconnecting Early

• You will only receive rewards up to the point of disconnection.

Seems to address that issue pretty clearly. If you just run forward and disconnect, you don't receive any rewards at all.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 October 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[CocoaJin]

Give Trail mechs reduced end match c-bills, give them greater c-bill bonuses for kills, assits and caps. The goal being better pay outs for work done instead of suicide and botting. In the end, the payouts would ideally be similar to current pay outs.

[Bloody]

Vlad Ward, on 30 October 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

[/list] Seems to address that issue pretty clearly. If you just run forward and disconnect, you don't receive any rewards at all.

yes but he is not disconnecting is he? he is running up and getting killed. Quit match is not disconnecting , i just tried it, I earned full match for getting killed early and quitting the match

[Vlad Ward]

Bloody, on 30 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

yes but he is not disconnecting is he? he is running up and getting killed. Quit match is not disconnecting , i just tried it, I earned full match for getting killed early and quitting the match

Well. Yes. You would. Because the above changes aren't implemented yet. You can't really test them in game.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Income from salvage vs income from damage. I haven't done any numbers on this yet. Mostly because it's hard to tell how much salvage is left on the board to do a ratio of surviving bits to C-Bills. I can understand why people would focus on damage, though, as that relationship [damage to C-Bills] is very explicit and explainable.

[Vlad Ward]

Income from Damage is just Damagex10 = c-bills earned.

You can run a 1,000 damage game (this is uncommon for even the best pilots) and only earn 10,000 in damage c-bills.

Or, you can run a 400 damage game and earn 4,000 in damage c-bills and 100,000 in Salvage c-bills.

Up to you.

Edit: Compare these two games. Both are Pick Up Groups. PUGs. Emphasizing this. P.U.G.S.

1,000+ Damage Game:



Game with 5 Leg kills:

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 October 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Vlad Ward, on 30 October 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Income from Damage is just Damagex10 = c-bills earned.

You can run a 1,000 damage game (this is uncommon for even the best pilots) and only earn 10,000 in damage c-bills.

Or, you can run a 400 damage game and earn 4,000 in damage c-bills and 100,000 in Salvage c-bills.

Up to you.

I understand that. However, 100,000 in salvage isn't guaranteed. It depends on a value of an unknown amount of surviving enemy bits that you do not have full control over. Whereas you have a far more substantive control over how much damage you do. In the end, most people are going to take the known over the unknown, regardless of the potential output of the unknown.

[Vlad Ward]

Check the pictures in my Edit. 100,000 in Salvage is pretty easy if your team knows to aim for it (Or your whole team has 0 damage and you know to aim for it )

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 October 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[Leetskeet]

RAM, on 30 October 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Official Response

Forced spectating or you don't get the rest of your money?

Haha!

[Jason1138]

they could end this immediately by removing the money earned just for showing up and x10 the money earned for everything else

it would take them 5 min and would kill farming forever

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

If you put together a team that can, consistently, get wins with high salvage values, then it's worthwhile. And you will have my undying respect.

As for the teams I play with, we're usually too involved with just getting everyone to hit the darn ready button in a reasonable amount of time. ["Wait! I need to adjust my ammo to heat sink ratio again!"] So we tend to focus on getting the 100,000 for the win and let the rest fall where it may.