593 replies to this topic

[Insidious Johnson]

The Cheese, on 04 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

This is a joke poll, right?

where is the punchline? did I miss it? IT IS COMING, RIGHT?

[LackofCertainty]

The Cheese, on 04 April 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

This is a joke poll, right?

My first thought was joke. My second thought was troll.

Final conclusion I've come to is something along the lines of "durned kids terday!" : P

[William Petersen]

LackofCertainty, on 04 April 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Honestly, I think pretty much every game that has ammo lets you run out of ammo, otherwise what's the point of it?

I dunno, man, 90% of FPSes have so much ammo laying around there's almost no point to it...


Also, as I pointed out, you still can run out, and the cost is time to resupply and vulnerability while resupplying. As long as the maps are big enough (and the reloading takes long enough), a resupply trip is a significant time investment, which I also said, puts you in a vulnerable position of being alone. If you go back with an escort that's even more hardware that's pulled from the front line.

[StandingCow]

You gotta remember though, most FPS games aren't simulations, they are arcade. This game is mostly a sim so running out of ammo absolutely needs to be part of the game and your decision.

Edited by StandingCow, 04 April 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[Psydotek]

I hope length of the matches are tuned to accommodate the risk of ammo depletion. You don't want them too short that ammo is a non-issue or too long that you run out of ammo halfway through the match even though you've been conserving ammo and making your shots count.

[Wyzak]

If you load your mech properly, you can make your ammo last. Assume six shots of AC20 per ton or 8 Gauss. 2 hits from either of those weapons can pretty much hull a mech, so if your max enemies are 12, you would need 24-48 reloads to shoot everyone (6-8 tons). It will be different from a single player campaign where you personally had to shoot every vehicle, building ,and mech dozens of times. Obviously if the 48 shots doesn't do the trick you need to fall back to your paired MLAS - just like a 'real' mechwarrior.

[Peiper]

A choice a mechwarrior should have, though, is whether to customize his/her mech to have a higher ammo capacity. Likewise, the ability to dump ammo to avoid risk of ammo explosions. Ideally, they would even be able to pick the locations where the ammo was being dumped out of. (So if one arm is damaged, you don't have to dump ammo from the other arm.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

I agree with those who say NO to resupply. But I also find reasonable to add some kind of MFB or other kind of supply cache to the game, but restrict it to a couple of scenarios for a really big matches and run it on condition that you have, say, just ONE resupply for each mech in a team and the MFB itself is vulnerable and could be destroyed. So the scouts have to choose whether they scout for enemy mechs or their base etc.

[Banshee Bullet]

I don't think there should be an easy reload. Otherwise why take extra tons of ammo at all? I do think that a MFB should be able to resupply but there are not many situations where MFBs can survive let alone set up. MFB's should only be available in specific situations.

If you want to rely on ammo based weapons you better have enough foresight to bring extra bullets.

[Peiper]

Psydotek, on 04 April 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

I hope length of the matches are tuned to accommodate the risk of ammo depletion. You don't want them too short that ammo is a non-issue or too long that you run out of ammo halfway through the match even though you've been conserving ammo and making your shots count.

This is absurd, Battletech-wise. Real battles (this is a simulation) aren't scheduled, nor are the lengths pre-determined. If you are worried about running out of ammo, plan for it!

[Nexus Trimean]

Field Reloads should be available in certain situations, the ammo should cost more and the mech must be shut down to load, also, loading ammo may exposes the unshielded rounds/missiles to enemy fire, increasing risk of Ammo detonation, and secondary explosions as your sides ammo cache cooks off, and probably cooks off any ammo that you did manage to load as all the ammo ports are open.

[BTBWolf]

I'm liking the vote results. Mostly reasonable. Being s-o-o-l once you run out is a little harsh, but hey, that's how MechWarrior 2 was. I'd be okay with that. Mobile resupplying sounds decent, but even those have to run out, I think. It needs to be between those options, somehow. I know in the mod MechWarrior: Living Legends there's a little vehicle with crappy machine guns on it that can deploy units and supplies, or at least, that's the theory. :/. The mod is too buggy and stuff for me to last very long in it. Anyway, as for "matches shouldn't last that long", well, that should really depend on how long the game is actually going to last and how quickly one side or the other wins. Don't shorten a match just so people don't run out of ammo because they went with ballistics. That's just stupid.

[Nexus Trimean]

Ammo Has to be reasonable, or people will only run laser boats, Balance by PGI will be the key here.

[Oswin Aurelius]

Nexus Trimean, on 04 April 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Ammo Has to be reasonable, or people will only run laser boats, Balance by PGI will be the key here.

The solution to all ammo issues is thus: MECHLAB.

[MostlyHarmless]

Oswin Aurelius, on 04 April 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

This was never going to be an arcade style game. It's been a simulation game from before it was even known as Mechwarrior: Online.

The idea of reloading in the field to me is arcade, call it canon or what ever but I'd rather have a hard core sim.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Choosing how much ammo a variant carries is HUGE in Battletech / MechWarrior. Its the difference between an extra ton of armor or heatsinks, or longevity in battle. Players should want to take as much ammo into battle and survive long enough to use a majority of it, if not all. And trust me, its pretty difficult to remain a threat on the field when suddenly your guns don't shoot anymore.

Having said that, it would be a rather interesting role/ability for commands to somehow call for MFBs (or something, idk) to re-arm 'mechs. With the hotdrop mode, I don't see this happening, but maybe for other objective oriented play. Perhaps instead of repair bays there are ammo bays in which players can re-arm at the risk of being easy and juicy target for 20-30 seconds. Those with less ammo means they cannot stray as far and need to rearm more frequently as those who decided to invest those few extra tons in ammo.

If the devs stick with the TT rules for ammo per ton, players only bringing a single ton of ammo per gun are going to be running dry FAST!

[Karl Streiger]

Field refit only for mechs that have the special perk...the Enforcer or the Hatchetman could be reloaded even in fighting, when the mech doesn't move and the J-27 are bold enough.

No ammunition for a Atlas or Catapult - when run dry ...you stay dry.
But what needed is the option to withdraw from a fight
some mechs like the modern Legacy are forced to leave the battlefield after a short and brutal fight. You got damaged while spending ammunition - when you haven't got any round left - your armor is in rags to...so move back and fight another day

Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 April 2012 - 11:19 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

obviosly if you are running out of ammo too fast, you need to add another ton of ammo, or put in some lasers as backup.

catapult default has 2 lrm 15s, 4 med lasers, and enough reloads to last a while.

if you stripped the lasers off to get lrm 20s and didnt bring enough ammo, its your own fault noob.

[Ian MacLeary]

mwhighlander, on 04 April 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

If the devs stick with the TT rules for ammo per ton, players only bringing a single ton of ammo per gun are going to be running dry FAST!

Eh, depends on the gun. You almost certainly won't run a single MG out of a ton of ammo in a firefight unless you jam down the trigger and don't let up. Similarly, a single ton of SRM ammo will keep an SRM-2 going for 50 shots.

For big weapons like Gauss Rifle, AC/20, LRM-20; yes, a single ton isn't going to keep them long. RACs and UltraACs will also chew through ammo fast.

[Rutok]

Reloads should not be neccessary. If you play smart and cooperate with your lance / the rest of the teammates and chose a reasonable layout for your mech then you should not run out (if the rounds are really around 20min).

You just cant fire everything all the time. Save that heavy AC for the shots you are shure to hit. Use LRM sparingly, not as some kind of mass aoe.

Having to worry about running out forces the player to play smartly. Just think about games where you can use everything and never run out of ammo. What happens is you just use the biggest gun all the time, for everything.

Shure, this might push some people to remove projectile weapons from their mechs and fit only energy weapons. But those designs have their own problems (heat).