593 replies to this topic

[Pel Morba]

I have no problem with MFBs so long as our recon lances can find and potentially destroy them just like any other ammo dump. Nothing like an earth-shattering kaboom to finish off the game.

[StandingCow]

Although I voted the first option... an ammo dump that is destroyable wouldn't be a bad idea. As Morba and some others have pointed out, it would be another good use for the scout/light mechs, and pretty important to take out.

[Xanquil]

If MWO gets the paceing right and keeps to the TT closely,(as has been stated) than amo shortages won't be much of an issue for a 20min game.
Yes your bigger weapons are going to have to watch the amo counter, but not as much as you mite think.
Just to point out a few examples (all 1t amo fireing untill empty):
LRM 20 = 1min
AC 10 =1.6min
Gauss rifle = 1.3min
AC 2 = 7.5min
mg = 33.3min
SRM 6 =2.5 min

Considering that most of the weapons carry mutiple tons of amo yea you are going to watch amo but not realy worry about it.
Unless you hold down the trigger than it is your own fult.

[SnowDragon]

Why is this even a question? Once you're out, you're out. No ***** footing, no arcade insta reloading that's shat all over gaming for the past seven years. If you're not careful with your ammo and are a complete fool in the Mechlab, then you deserve to be standing all alone in the middle of a city completely out of ammo and completely helpless.

[CCC Dober]

Xanquil, on 05 April 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

If MWO gets the paceing right and keeps to the TT closely,(as has been stated) than amo shortages won't be much of an issue for a 20min game.
Yes your bigger weapons are going to have to watch the amo counter, but not as much as you mite think.
Just to point out a few examples (all 1t amo fireing untill empty):
LRM 20 = 1min
AC 10 =1.6min
Gauss rifle = 1.3min
AC 2 = 7.5min
mg = 33.3min
SRM 6 =2.5 min

Considering that most of the weapons carry mutiple tons of amo yea you are going to watch amo but not realy worry about it.
Unless you hold down the trigger than it is your own fult.

You forgot to consider certain weapons (and Mechs) that go through ammo like a fat kid goes through candy bars. Please reconsider.
Hint: ArrowIV, UAC, RAC etc.

[Crimson Dux]

Yes to limited resupply. If you have some tons available in you drop limit use it to dump some ammo and a supply trucks thru the door.
Of course this option can be depending on the terrain, mission type, proximity of enemy forces, ...
I would love to have another aspect for the lance to consider while planning a mission: How many tons of ammo, what type, where to drop, how many trucks, (you get the idea).

[crazy jake]

This question is completly unmechwarriorish, if you know you can't hit the broad-side of an Atlas and constantly run out of ammo, just hit the self-destruct button. If your mech doesn't have a self-destuct button, throw something explosive into the engine compartment.

Edited by crazy jake, 05 April 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Halfinax]

GDL Irishwarrior, on 04 April 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I believe that running out of ammo should definitely be a danger - as far as what comes after that, it all depends on whether the battlefield would reasonably HAVE mobile field bases - sometimes the answer would be yes, sometimes no; I think it would largely depend on the mission type. If MFBs are available, great - tell your lance, make a dash for the resupply, and hope you still have allies when you've reloaded. Otherwise, I guess you can always use your Catapult to try DFA-ing Atlases

Well, considering Mobile Field Bases aren't seen until 3059 we won't reasonably see them for a decade.

A Catapult's 4 Medium Lasers are far from something to sneeze at though. Just because it doesn't have any more missiles doesn't mean it's not a huge threat anymore. Sure it might not be a big threat to a pristine Assault, but that armament should still be enough to give even another Heavy pause, especially with the Catapult's mobility.

As to the poll: Out of ammo is out of ammo, but most designs carry enough ammo that it shouldn't be too much of an issue for anyone that is careful with their shots. I say: "Don't fire until you see the glow of their cockpits boys"

[pesco]

What is this mobile field base you speak of?
A magic tank you stand next to and upon the press of a button your empty missile bays are full again?
Talk about breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief.

[CaptainNapalm]

i like the idea of ammo dumps but in RL, what would a resuply of ammo take? half an hour minimum i would geuss. i have read about second world war panzer crews going back to reload during battles and the half infantry squad running back for ammo in the Lt.s jeep is an old storey oft repeated. in vengence, if i took lots of projectile weapons i was sure to carry lots of projectiles. run out? TS. but popping NME ammo dumps in a flea would be big flashy fun...

[Xanquil]

Those where just a few of the more common waepons. But if you want them, the common UAC at the time was the 5 so you are still looking at 1.6min at full auto per ton.
The RAC(one of my favorite weapons btw) will not be around for a while but still a RAC 5 wil only be out of amo in a little over 30sec.

That is why you usualy see these weapons carry more than 1ton of amo.
If you run out of amo, mabe a little fire control training is needed. Or, go with energy weapons and play with heat.
I'de rather run out of amo and be forced to punch something to death, than over heat and explode.

[Sylow]

pesco, on 05 April 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

What is this mobile field base you speak of?
A magic tank you stand next to and upon the press of a button your empty missile bays are full again?
Talk about breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief.

It depends on who you speak to and what drugs they take.

The two "scary" concepts were seen in previous implementations of Mechwarrior:
- The repair vehicles from MW3. Can travel around in the area, can be destroyed by the enemy, but when used they in that game fix your armour and restock your ammo within like 15 seconds. Despite their vulnerability, they are no good for any multiplayer.
- The repair stations of MW4. Stationary somewhere, a mech runs in, stops for like 10 seconds, runs out at full repair and full ammo. And on top of that, those stations are invulnerable. Absolutely no good for any game.

Though, we could also take a look at how im present times a "mobile field base" looks like. Skipping the minefield of present day military actions, i go back to WW2. Where it very rarely happened that the Sherman tank at the end of the day crossed the Atlantic to return to its garrison in the US. Even returning to the supply base 200 miles behind the present position did not happen, despite needing fuel and ammo. It was easier and more logical to just establish base near the front, closer to the fighting units, to which trucks delivered fueld and ammo for the next day of operation. Here we are, at a very simple form of a mobile field base. Pioneers might, when available, fortify it a bit, but a handfull of trucks with fueld and ammo and a platoon of infantry, along with half a dozen anti-tank weapons, are enough to establish a field base.

Very valuable when used properly, highly vulnerable when deployed wrongly.

Edited by Sylow, 05 April 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[WithSilentWings]

To me, honestly, being able to resupply IN GAME is like suggesting you should be able to walk over to some bay and swap your mech while the fighting continues. It is an absurd Idea and I can't understand why so many people would want it to be a possiblity.

In extremely large, long, drawn out fights I could agree with the idea on a small scale (i.e. you need people guarding the place and only 1 mech could reload at a time, taking at least a minute etc.) but in the rest of the game it has no place, just as it has practically no place in the past games. (edit, MW4 is a ******* child of the series)

Both IS and Clan fight in GROUPS of battlemechs. If you are in a catapult (which, by the way is a bad example because it has plenty of energy weaponry) and you run out of LRMs, your role for the remainder of the battle either changes, or you are hurting your team. You may be less combat effective at range where you do best, but now you can support others by being a distraction or helping them set up an ambush. Flank an enemy mech and start pounding and force them to respond, and now they have their back turned to your Atlas as it rounds the corner.

A note for all the proponents in this: Isn't that "hot drop" game type enough? It lets you keep a stockpile of 3 mechs or something and drop one at a time so the fight goes on for longer. Each time you'll have a fresh mech and full ammo--why do you need more? Like many are saying, what's the point in having ammo if it never runs out? (anyone who's played ANY sim, even the ****** half-sims will recognized that you, your aircraft or other vehicle, has a VERY limited ammo supply and it is a VERY real hurdle. In most cases, simply loading or going to pick up more is either not an option, or such a lengthy process that it has no place in this game.

Edited by WithSilentWings, 05 April 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Sylow]

WithSilentWings, on 05 April 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

To me, honestly, being able to resupply IN GAME is like suggesting you should be able to walk over to some bay and swap your mech while the fighting continues. It is an absurd Idea and I can't understand why so many people would want it to be a possiblity.

Reloading ammo actually is more logical than anything else, especially ejecting and hot-dropping in just seconds later. So i don't see any logical issues there.

WithSilentWings, on 05 April 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

In extremely large, long, drawn out fights I could agree with the idea on a small scale (i.e. you need people guarding the place and only 1 mech could reload at a time, taking at least a minute etc.) but in the rest of the game it has no place, just as it has practically no place in the past games. (edit, MW4 is a ******* child of the series)

Both IS and Clan fight in GROUPS of battlemechs. If you are in a catapult (which, by the way is a bad example because it has plenty of energy weaponry) and you run out of LRMs, your role for the remainder of the battle either changes, or you are hurting your team. You may be less combat effective at range where you do best, but now you can support others by being a distraction or helping them set up an ambush. Flank an enemy mech and start pounding and force them to respond, and now they have their back turned to your Atlas as it rounds the corner.

The question really rather is: can you take the risk to split from your unit and walk back alone to resupply? Or do you rather stick with your lance, albeit at reduced efficiency? There are plenty of references in BT, where ammo is loaded into mechs in prmade magazines. So it's not like the crewmen lift 120 rockets into the ammo storage, one by one to reload one ton of LRM ammo. Instead, the pilot hits a switch in the cockpit and the ammo hatch opens. The old magazine is removed with a stacker crane, a new magazine is inserted, the hatch is closed, done.

Reload time thus would not be the issue. (Unless you want to also have new armour welded to your mech, which would extent the battle by a several hours... ) Traveling alone and without ammo (aka: being easy prey), and being worthless for your lance while you are far from where they need you, are the actual issues.

WithSilentWings, on 05 April 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

A note for all the proponents in this: Isn't that "hot drop" game type enough? It lets you keep a stockpile of 3 mechs or something and drop one at a time so the fight goes on for longer. Each time you'll have a fresh mech and full ammo--why do you need more? Like many are saying, what's the point in having ammo if it never runs out? (anyone who's played ANY sim, even the ****** half-sims will recognized that you, your aircraft or other vehicle, has a VERY limited ammo supply and it is a VERY real hurdle. In most cases, simply loading or going to pick up more is either not an option, or such a lengthy process that it has no place in this game.

See all of me above. Compared to the hot drop, reloading is absolutely no issue. Considering that we will, as far as we know, have objective based maps, ejecting and hot dropping in again will probably be tactically preferable to reloading. And as already mentioned, finding the field bases would be a scouts primary duty. If you then even manage to blow up the ammo stacks when a mech is just in there to be reloaded, even more fun...

Edited by Sylow, 05 April 2012 - 05:26 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

No ammo reloads on the field- speaking as a Hunchie pilot, it's part of the game balance. If PGI decide that for balance reasons that a ton of ammo should have more shots fine. MFB's don't exist in this time and J27s would take about 30 min per ton from memory, Even an Enforcer took 15min.

[CCC Dober]

Sylow, on 05 April 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

...
See all of me above. Compared to the hot drop, reloading is absolutely no issue. Considering that we will, as far as we know, have objective based maps, ejecting and hot dropping in again will probably be tactically preferable to reloading. And as already mentioned, finding the field bases would be a scouts primary duty. If you then even manage to blow up the ammo stacks when a mech is just in there to be reloaded, even more fun...

... and if you like a nice air show or whistling shells in the air, just call in artillery or the flyboys for a real party

[Karel Spaten]

pesco, on 05 April 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

What is this mobile field base you speak of?
A magic tank you stand next to and upon the press of a button your empty missile bays are full again?
Talk about breaking immersion and suspension of disbelief.

Nobody said it had to be done that way. Mechcommander forced units to temporarily power down while they were repaired/reloaded - meaning that they needed a security detail and time. I think that has lots of tactical potential.

[Omigir]

No kidding, on MW4, just last month, I saw two mechs run out of ammo... they were the last two before the match ended.. they had to ram each other in order to start the next wave.. it was epic.

[Sylow]

CCC_Dober, on 05 April 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

... and if you like a nice air show or whistling shells in the air, just call in artillery or the flyboys for a real party

Muahahahhahaha! Yea! Artillery fire on the enemy ammo depot, while their heavies are just reloading there!

[Mystwolf]

Running out of Ammor is always a danger for those that have ammo and use weapons that require it. The same is said of the danger of ammo explosions.

but even in the books you could have a mobile field base to reload. This is the only option that is viable and makes sense. but even a MFB will only have so much and IF the enemy finds it you are now permanently out of ammo now. Also MFB's would not be used on every battle.....and if you have one and lose one it should be gone till you can buy another one.


In NO WAY should it be some special ability that you can hit to reload.......that is lame.

Edited by Mystwolf, 05 April 2012 - 06:29 AM.