593 replies to this topic

[Vexgrave Lars]

Oh please do shut down your mech for 60 or so seconds with my recon lance around near a MFB. We love it when you reload and fireworks!

[Diomed]

Ammo should be limited but resupply should be an option available in every battle. If ammo resupply is not available that should be noted to the pilot prior to mission commitment so the pilot can choose to run ballistics or energy.

Keep in mind that carrying ammo-based weapons has another, very real, danger: ammo explosions! If you don't have CASE and your ammo blows you, my friend, have just had a very short, very bad day.

[Skylarr]

Recon: Recon to Commander Target eliminated.
Command: Roger that. We can see the show from here.
Recon: There's an Atlas and 2 Hammers pilots that are not happy with us right now. We are high tailing it back with a Scout lance on our tail.

Edited by Skylarr, 05 April 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Skylarr]

Here is one in case it is at night.

[BrokenDog]

If you're out, you're out!
If there is resupply at a rear echelon position, then go fetch if time, command and situation allow.
[empty gunz is jus' clubs and dead weight]

[Requital]

I am fine with bases, but only when in certain types of gameplay. for a standard match, there should rarely be a mobile field base available, and when you are out, you are out. I think if the devs want to add some sort of defend the fort gameplay, escort the convoy, or any number of other game types, that the ability to re arm and repair any weapon that was not completely destroyed (to some extent that is) would be fine, so long as you don't get a 100% fresh mech in 10 seconds, or find re-arm stations on every single map (gag).

[Cochise]

Meh, you run out of ammo, you should be able to go back to a resupply base or some other method to get more bullets.

Maybe sometimes there isn't a way to resupply on a particular map, but I think that should be the exception rather than the rule. I don't think it really makes sense to say, "when you're out, you're out". There are some mechs that just don't carry a lot of ammo to begin with and were obviously designed with the idea that you would have to get more ammo at some point.

[CaveMan]

If you run out of ammo and your enemies aren't dead, you're not hitting the target enough, or you purposely stripped your 'Mech of sufficient ammo stores. Work on your aim.

Seriously, 1 ton of SRM ammo = 200 damage. If you managed to throw all that at the enemy and didn't at least severely wreck one 'Mech, you suck and should find a new hobby.

[Archtus]

I wonder the kind of damage a critical strike on an MFB would have while a 'Mech was being reloaded...

Archtus' Raven Destroys MFB
Archtus' Raven Destroys Atlas

:,D

Edit: Think: Ammo bays open on MFB. Ammo bays open on 'Mech. Massive chain reaction. Beautiful smokin' crater.

Edited by Archtus, 05 April 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Gunmage]

No resupply whatsoever. If you are going with ammo-based weaponry, you should feel the weight of its limitations. If you don't have the skill to offset these limitations, go energy.

[Punisher 1]

Targets ammo storage, waits for secondary explosion and fireworks.

I think the following a parallel to realism is always the best way to make things operate.

[AlanEsh]

Quote

Increase base ammo amounts so it's harder to run out. (3 votes [1.64%])

This is the correct answer.

/edit -- i'll elaborate

You can't turn a "1 turn is X minutes" game into a real time sim without taking a look at the amount of ammo being used. The number of rounds per "ton" of ammo is going to be adjusted for balance, count on it.

Ammo-based weapons are already at a disadvantage for their tendency to 'splode; the devs will carefully weigh this against their tendency to become dead weight after running out of ammo.

/edit /edit -- aaaaand...
This is not to say an AC20 should be allowed to fire nonstop for an entire match. You should still need to pay attention to your ammo use in battle. But it has to be fun and effective, which means not running out of ammo after just a couple of minutes.

Edited by Angelicon, 05 April 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[Jason Phoenix]

I like the idea to be able to Resuply/Repair to a MFB during missions.

1) Need to Shutdown your Mech in order to be able to use the MFB.

2) Delay should vary in function to the extant of the Repair/Ammo needed and the Chassis/Variant.

3) Could be fielded using Command pts from a Friendly Command Unit ?

4) MFB should be restricted to certain Scenario.

[pesco]

Karel Spaten, on 05 April 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Mechcommander forced units to temporarily power down while they were repaired/reloaded - meaning that they needed a security detail and time. I think that has lots of tactical potential.

This sounds reasonable. FWIW, I'd like the resupply thing to be an actual base and the delay to be worth mentioning. Those munitions need to get into that Mech somehow.

But no field repairs, I don't think that's believable. (Maybe with OmniMechs when they do appear.)

[Trogusaur]

It would be nice to have an option in between FB resupply, but either make it time consuming to do so, or make the field bases few and far between. For the sake of preventing refit abuse, this would be for the best.

[CaveMan]

Angelicon, on 05 April 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

This is the correct answer.

/edit -- i'll elaborate

You can't turn a "1 turn is X minutes" game into a real time sim without taking a look at the amount of ammo being used. The number of rounds per "ton" of ammo is going to be adjusted for balance, count on it.

Ammo-based weapons are already at a disadvantage for their tendency to 'splode; the devs will carefully weigh this against their tendency to become dead weight after running out of ammo.

/edit /edit -- aaaaand...
This is not to say an AC20 should be allowed to fire nonstop for an entire match. You should still need to pay attention to your ammo use in battle. But it has to be fun and effective, which means not running out of ammo after just a couple of minutes.

Running out of ammo after a couple of minutes makes perfect sense if you're shooting continously.

Bear in mind, the average player is NOT going to be getting nine, ten kills in a match in MWO. Matches are going to be roughly numerically even, meaning you as a 'Mech pilot will be responsible for taking out one target on the other side, maybe two if you're pretty good. The amount of ammo you get stock is totally appropriate to that. Take an Archer, for example. You've got two LRM-20s with 12 volleys each. Assuming perfect accuracy (which shouldn't be assumed but I don't want to get into percentages) you're looking at 480 damage before you run out. That's enough to reduce an Atlas to scrap and have some left over, even if you don't hit every single time. Meanwhile the other team will be hitting you back, and you will be lucky to survive long enough to use all your ammo.

Edited by CaveMan, 05 April 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Dimetime]

CCC_Dober, on 05 April 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Last time I checked, Mechs always had logistics and supply trains attached to them. Sometimes closer, sometimes farther from the action. That's the kind of 'realism' we're looking at in MW and this is what sets standards, not today's rules of combat that do not even incorporate Mechs because they don't exist IRL.

What I'm reading between the lines is basically that you consider it unfun, when an enemy is level-headed enough to withdraw in time for some R&R. Am I right? I can relate to that somewhat, but you can anticipate this and exploit the very fact to your advantage. As a fellow (ex-)soldier you should know all about that and if not, well that's tough. Also there's a difference between ammo resupply and field repairs. The latter are not part of the OP and as such are not problematic as you make them out to be.

Sure, if we're sitting down at a table playing TT. In a presumably time based team vs team deathmatch? I just can't see those little ammo trucks hanging out on the battlefield. Even if they did I certainly don't see them lasting very long, especially long enough for a pilot to run out of ammo and have to retreat and find one.

In my view part of being a competent pilot is getting a sense of how much ammo you use in a typical match and building your mech to reflect that. Especially sense we know from the latest blog that we'll have a means of making such adjustments.

Based on my experiences from MW4 and WoT and looking at the combat from the videos for MWO I don't see where anyone would have the time to stop in the middle of the fight to load more ammo. Loading ammo should take a bit of time, especially into a mech while in the field.If we're going to talk "that kind of realism" then we need to include those factors as well. As such when you retreat to find that ammo truck to reload your ballistic/missile ammo, I most certainly am not just going to sit back and let you try to do so in peace. If anything at that point I have the advantage and will press it.

Indeed the first thing I would do once I came upon you sitting motionless while loading ammo is blow up the ammo truck, which should start a chain reaction of explosions ending at or with your mech.

What I wouldn't find "fun" is if I could not A) destroy your ammo trucks and/or harm or destroy you while you were rearming. Provided those options are available, then I have no issue with putting in ammo trucks. As I said before, no time outs...no I'm invincible.

[Lightfoot]

You have the option, as always, of adding ammo in 1 ton amounts, provided you have available weight for it. The bigger the weapon, the fewer rounds per ton. There's a little give and take, but if you run out of ammo, you had a good day. Most likely you run out of armor first.

[AlanEsh]

CaveMan, on 05 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Running out of ammo after a couple of minutes makes perfect sense if you're shooting continously.
...

LRMs aren't really the same concern for me as ballistics. If you're not firing with a lock, or with help from Narc, etc, then you're missing a lot and wasting ammo. It's the ACs that I believe will need a close look by the devs for ammo balance. Your chance of missing with ballistic weapons is affected by more inputs than LRMs which have the advantage of lock on and seeking.

Lag, server hiccups, and client performance will have a bigger impact on the ACs, causing more misses, which ACs really can't afford with the canon ammo numbers (which, again, represent firing over time, not 1 shell fired per turn).

[Dihm]

A little thing I learned years ago, to follow the 6Ps, "Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance".

Find yourself running out of ammo too often? Trade off some armor, some heat sinks, or some of those boated medium lasers for more ammo. MWO should be about making tough choices and trade-offs like this, not about getting a free ride (like MW4 "coolant").

Edited by Dihm, 05 April 2012 - 08:52 AM.