593 replies to this topic

[Steel Talon]

Ability to resupply motivate ppl to live longer, to play better!
Instead of making full LBX mach with suicide run to make most dmg as possible & die before ammo runs out.

[Lycan]

Blkcat, on 08 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

so what buffs then are you proposing to energy weapons to offset ballistics and missiles no longer having to worry about ammo?

What makes you think that by including a MFB that automatically means that ammo based mechs don't have to worry about ammo?

It's already been stated that the MFB wouldn't/shouldn't be available in all match settings. Nor would the MFB have access to unlimited ammo. You're probably have to outfit it with the ammo types that it would carry before the match (where it was available) begins.

Even if there's a MFB available, the mech that needs the reload would still have to make it there, hope that he wasn't followed by an enemy, power himself down, wait for the reload to complete, power up and then get back into the action. Now, MOST pilots wouldn't want to take that risk and would just make do with not using the weapon that's been depleted.

So still not not seeing where a MFB means "unlimited ammo".

[wwiiogre]

Lycan,

In the time frame we are playing in according to the Devs at 3048 there are no Mobile field bases. there are however dropships, warehouses, forts, etc. That would and should include a loading spot with the equipment to load ammo into Mechs. However it has been stated to Reload a mech outside of combat takes between 6 minutes and 15 minutes based on the experience of the crew or 30 seconds or 50 seconds in the field but with a chance for an explosion and the mech being loaded is shut down and if he is hit in the rear the ammo auto explodes plus the ammo in the square being loaded and it is a bad thing.

I am all for ammo reloading during the game. Didn't happen often in the lore, only in badly made MW games where armor was repaired etc. Outside of timelines for what the canon says it would take. I know it was a game decision based on magic reload and repair so it was a compromise. I hope PGI does not compromise like that, although I would love the Dev's to include onboard ammo and reloading facilities as long as they are able to be destroyed and the mech being reloaded has to follow all the rules from TT with all the bad consequences I am ok with it. Gives my scout mech a really fun job of killing mechs that are shut down and vulnerable. Plus I really wish we could capture the ammo that pilot x bought for his reloads during the game but we denied him the ability to reload cause we kept his depot under observation and fire so it wasn't safe for him to reload. Ahhhh

chris

[GrimFist]

I think resupply options are fancy talk for spray and pray.

Most of the table top games I played had no kind of resupply. Lets get melee before we get resupply!!!

With the Hatchetman 5S, who wants resupply when ur all out of ammo and I'm taking cockpits for lawn ornaments.

[The1WithTheGun]

I think there should be SOME way to resupply - that fits withing the overall world/map.

I'm not a fan of unlimited ammo. Also, I think that not being able to reload would effectively punish people for participating in the battle; ammo-using mechs would effectively have a "death countdown".

At least having SOME means of resupply would encourage people to actually use ballistic wepaons, while still being able to run dry in combat would also encourage mechwarriros to pick their shots and not just hold down the trigger and "pray and spray".

[Phalleon]

Ammunition based weapons have advantages that counter the benefits that energy weapons provide, while using depletion as a counter to heat. The weapon must be able to run out of ammo or there is no counter balance for the benefits. That being said there should be some manner of replenishing the ammo 'in th field'. As in real life there are many times that supply has proved pivotal to the battle, in the game such a item as a MFB would create many variations in tactics and planning. That would enhance the strategy needed as well as provide more depth to the battle.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"Also, I think that not being able to reload would effectively punish people for participating in the battle; ammo-using mechs would effectively have a "death countdown".

I just have to ask. Why are you driving a Mech that has only 1 ballistic weapons that might run out of ammo? Death Countdown? What is that. A capable Mech has multiple Weapons suites and covers multiple ranges. Oh, and a competent Pilot (mostly)

This kind of mind set stems from the last of the MW games. It shows directly how screwed up they made the way players think about BT. With Full MechLabs what you ended up with was "Load me up with AC20's boys. If I run out of ammo, no worries mate. I will just suicide near an enemy!"

Here is hoping we never face that sourness again. And Yes if I get my wish many of those types of pilots of old will be pissed but we need Team players, not suicide bombers.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 14 April 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Sheewa]

Running out of ammo is a risk you take when you choose that weapon. Once you're out, you're out.
If you don't like it feel free to pick lasors.

[HEMORRHAGE]

If we reflect upon the games past that we love so dearly....running out of ammo was a realistic situation in every map. Some maps were more urban with MFBs or repair bays that you could reload with. I think saying there will always be an MFB of sorts is childish, it's not warfare. One has to plan accordingly with their weapon loadouts and the requirements of the battle and act accordingly. As in any combat situation, resupply is great when possible, but if it isn't, then it isn't. My two cents.

[BoxOfAids]

My decision on this matter is based on how the matches play out, basically how games/maps tend to be geared. For example, if it takes a LOT of firepower to actually kill a mech (like in MWLL), running out of ammo is a bigger concern. But more importantly, we'll be having 12v12 battles. Let's say team A and team B have both lost 7 mechs, but team A's remaining 5 mechs have taken mostly ammo-based weapons. Team A in this situation would be completely screwed, and it's not really their fault (unless you want to blame them for taking mostly ammo-based weapons). I mean if they took only weapons with VERY limited ammo like Gauss and AC20, then sure you can blame them for it, but if they legitimately ran out of like AC5 and SRM ammo etc, then there's really a problem.

That's my primary concern, that battles might last too long for ammo-based weapons to be viable without resupply. If during the course of a battle you run out of ammo for weapons that aren't known for having low ammo, there's a problem with the game balance, because it will limit people to taking energy weapons for fear that they'll run out of ammo for everything later in the battle. That being said, I completely support the idea of having very limited ammo on the super long range or very powerful weapons (AC20, Gauss, LRMs), such that you have the advantage of huge DPS at the cost of sustainability in drawn-out fights. I am also completely against any form of REPAIRING during a battle, I'm just saying that ammo resupply may or may not be necessary depending on how everything in the game plays out.

It would be easy to implement resupply if there were objective-based game modes, like capture points etc, because you could have resupply points on "your" side of the map, so you could resupply at the cost of not being able to help your team fight in the battle because you're MIA to resupply. However, I believe devs mentioned that objective-based game modes would NOT be in at release, so for now I'm hoping they stick to giving weapons like the AC5 and SRMs plenty of ammo so you don't have to worry about ammo except for super-long games, so that we don't have to worry about this issue at all.

[Zervziel]

Yes running out of ammo. Keeps the missile boats in check to a degree and quite frankly that's really something you should keep in mind when customizing your mech. It's one of the key things to keep in mind, along side heat management and armor coverage. take what's only in the weapon at the time? Sucks to be you when you run out. Too bad you didn't think ahead.

Quote

My decision on this matter is based on how the matches play out, basically how games/maps tend to be geared. For example, if it takes a LOT of firepower to actually kill a mech (like in MWLL), running out of ammo is a bigger concern. But more importantly, we'll be having 12v12 battles. Let's say team A and team B have both lost 7 mechs, but team A's remaining 5 mechs have taken mostly ammo-based weapons. Team A in this situation would be completely screwed, and it's not really their fault (unless you want to blame them for taking mostly ammo-based weapons). I mean if they took only weapons with VERY limited ammo like Gauss and AC20, then sure you can blame them for it, but if they legitimately ran out of like AC5 and SRM ammo etc, then there's really a problem.

Actually you really can't blame them for running out of the large ACs and gauss ammo as those will put down an enemy mech faster than picking them apart with SRMs. In fact I'd be pretty peeved if the Hunchback on my team is only toting an AC5 rather than an AC20. If you have the ability to land a heavy blow, take it! Just make sure to stuff a few extra tons of ammo on.

the only real blame that can be put on a player s not planning ahead when customizing. What's the point of adding extra armor to a hunchback if you don't add another ton of ammo? Your added survivability isn't going to help much if your main weapon system ran out of ammo.

Edited by Zervziel, 14 April 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[BoxOfAids]

Zervziel, on 14 April 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Actually you really can't blame them for running out of the large ACs and gauss ammo as those will put down an enemy mech faster than picking them apart with SRMs. In fact I'd be pretty peeved if the Hunchback on my team is only toting an AC5 rather than an AC20. If you have the ability to land a heavy blow, take it! Just make sure to stuff a few extra tons of ammo on.

the only real blame that can be put on a player s not planning ahead when customizing. What's the point of adding extra armor to a hunchback if you don't add another ton of ammo? Your added survivability isn't going to help much if your main weapon system ran out of ammo.

While this is a legitimate and well-argued point, I could say just the opposite: why take an extra ton of ammo instead of armor if you'll just die before getting to use it, since you didn't take extra armor?

I just feel like you'd eat through your heavy rounds really quick at the start of a match, so if it gets drawn out, you're less likely to have some for later, while you would probably still have some ammo left for SRMs or smaller ACs just because your team has energy weapons working on killing enemies at the same time, and it takes longer to go through your ammo. IMO, you're far more likely to be facing enemies with no ammo on your big guns than on your smaller guns just because you don't use 1/16 of your ammo each shot. But like I said, that's your choice to run out of ammo that quickly, since you get the huge DPS.

Edited by boxofaids, 14 April 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[wwiiogre]

Actually part of tactics in a combat mission is to figure out what kind of weapon systems your opponent is using and form a winning plan around that information. So if I am in a unit that knows the enemy is ammo dependent, we switch tactics and remain at range with fast movers and try to draw their fire until their wells run dry and then mop up. that has nothing to do with game balance merely tactical use of weapon systems. If you bring an ammo dependent mech to a battle you better use every round wisely or what is known as fire discipline. Don't waste shots on low odds of causing damage cause I know I won't. Repairs cannot happen during this timeline because MFB's are not available and realisticly since this is a sim and not an arcade style shooter there are no powerups for ammo or armor or health packs. So reloading is dead, in table top there are field reloads but they are dangerous with an 8% for a devastating explosion per ton of ammo loaded. Plus your mech is shut down, plus if you receive fire into the rear section of your mech then the ammo explodes anyway since the bins are open. So if PGI wants to give people the chance to die by trying to reload during the battle, I am ok with that. I will snoop around with my scout mech and watch that catapult run back to his ammo loader and right after he shuts down his mech to reload I will call in indirect fire into his sqaure blowing all of his ammo up and his mech, or even better just kill him and steal his ammo cause nothing says money like the other guys stuff.

Chris

[UncleKulikov]

I'm fine with ammunition being able to be depleted, as long as ballistics are improved to make up the difference that they suffer in Tabletop, where they have comparable range, more space and tonnage, less heat, and vulnerability to ammunition explosion and depletion to energy weapons.

[Dihm]

I think there should be ammo boxes and speed boosts and stuff you can run over to get powered up.

[Ian MacLeary]

Dihm, on 16 April 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

I think there should be ammo boxes and speed boosts and stuff you can run over to get powered up.

Oh, there are, there are. They're deployed all around my team's drop zone. You can't miss them, they're brightly colored.

(Quickly places an order for neon paint and anti-mech mines...)

[Philipe von Rohrs]

MFBs can be very handy, and could be a great game dynamic. I think that they could be less of a "quick fix" like MW3 and a lot more vulnerable to, well, anything!

Used right by a commander they can be a game changer and swing a battle...

That could help out ammo dependant 'mechs but forces them to pull back, stand idle for a while (next to a big pile of ammo mind) and return to a game that has probly shifted considerably.

[wwiiogre]

MFB's are not part of this timeline and are over a decade away, literally as PGI and the Dev's say one day equals one day in the timeline in the game to our own timeline and reality.

chris

[Goldhawk]

I got it! 1st, I'm with the no ammo, you're screwed category. But there could be a game type that focuses on destroying the enemies' convoy. Once that goes down, then the enemy forces have to survive with laser weapons and what not. Perhaps during one of these matches, the mechs available would be heavy in expendable ammunition, thus making the protection of the convoy a must. Scouts can locate the convoy the fastest, and call in it's position to the heavier mechs in their force. BAM! I just made a game type.

[Philipe von Rohrs]

wwiiogre, on 16 April 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

MFB's are not part of this timeline and are over a decade away, literally as PGI and the Dev's say one day equals one day in the timeline in the game to our own timeline and reality.

chris

Whooops. Forgot the timeline...

Static loading gantries at a temporary HQ then...