734 replies to this topic

[Azantia]

Why do you guys believe that just because there is no master chain of command that individual units are not organized or have their own independent chain of command?

And no, an incompetently run chain of command is as bad as a unit with zero organization. Different problems, same outcome.

This thread was about a Davion wide Chain of Command and the fact that the MPBT crowd did not want people who were not part of the "old guard" to be in positions of command within the Chain of Command because they had "no experience". There are plenty of Davion units that are not part of the "master chain of command" that are organized and have alliances???

Edited by Azantia, 18 June 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Skoots]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

coming from someone who hasnt done anything but waged war online, you have no right to talk to me about courage. I have devoted 2 years of my life to my country in war. So until you do the same, keep your mouth shut about courage, cause its something you dont understand.

Why dont you stop right there ya two year chump. Bringing this stuff in to stupid online froum about space robots like you should be entitled to something only cheapins the real sacrifices of real men and women.

[Vandal]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Why do you guys believe that just because there is no master chain of command that individual units are not organized or have their own independent chain of command?

This thread was about a Davion wide Chain of Command and the fact that the MPBT crowd did not want people who were not part of the "old guard" to be in positions of command within the Chain of Command because they had "no experience". There are plenty of Davion units that are not part of the "master chain of command" that are organized and have alliances???

Mostly more delays and kinks in getting communication out to all the units to organize them instantly. A system like that you have right now is pretty inefficient and depending on how Community Warfare eventually turns out, major flaws might be revealed relating to the speed and turnaround to getting players on an alert state and ready to mobilize as a single mass. Also the sharing of tactics and builds across all of your very disparate groups/alliances/regiments/klans/whatever you want to call them. A major strength of MODERN GOONIE WARFARE has always been a strong focus on a central command organization and access to information for new and inexperienced players. A congressional system of democratic player alliances pales in comparison to the brutal efficiency of a despotic-tyrant run communistic state.

Edited by Vandal, 18 June 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[TheKumquat]

As a goon who has been to Iraq in the Army, I just came here to say that Azantia sounds like a big baby-coward and is full of crap. Azantia, quit being butthurt and listen to other people. It is quite clear you are wrong, and if you have to create a new account to escape the shame of admitting that you're wrong, I suggest you do so.



Edit: Also, serving any country in any conflict does not entitle you to special attention or privilege in an internet robot fighting game.

Edited by TheKumquat, 18 June 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

My viewpoint remains the same. Over the course of the thread, many who wished to be involved in the original idea of a CoC don't seem (to me,) best suited due to how they've approached the situation. There needs to be an understanding on all sides (not 'both' as there's more then two groups involved,) instead of foisting one community above another due to a perceived right from some kind of experience edge.

Many communities coming together to make this new community, one isn't superior to the other because of how long one's been around or hasn't as there's many great players all around. That's the main reason many of us even got interested in this thread, and we only wish to see good things for the House.

Equality is what I'd say I'm after, and I don't see it happening from many of those who are interested in a CoC, regardless of the form it takes due to how community warfare works in MW:O. We know you don't have the control of older 'mech games, so the idea of what a CoC is changes. The involvement of one isn't nearly as in depth as it has been in past games, so smaller bands of units /etc actually work.

I still have a vote of no confidence in a Davion CoC as originally laid down in the thread, but if there is to be one I'm still going to comment on what I feel are pitfalls and grave errors in making one.

[Vandal]

Jack Gallows, on 18 June 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Equality is what I'd say I'm after, and I don't see it happening from many of those who are interested in a CoC, regardless of the form it takes due to how community warfare works in MW:O. We know you don't have the control of older 'mech games, so the idea of what a CoC is changes. The involvement of one isn't nearly as in depth as it has been in past games, so smaller bands of units /etc actually work.

I'd say we don't actually know anything about how much control will be given to the metagame/community warfare aspect of the game. What we do know is that after Goons posted an excellent thread discussing the various pitfalls and pros of the meta-warfare in many different online multiplayer games, the developers announced they were pushing back community warfare. I can only hope these two events are directly correlated, every little goonie boy and goonie girl wants to see the metagame be very in-depth and interesting to play, well past the initial release of the game.

Edited by Vandal, 18 June 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Meneiupptus]

To reiterate this post:

This post is about a House Davion completely voluntary Chain of Communication. Not Command though it might have started that way it has been discussed and moderated by Davion's and their good friends in Liao. The Units would form a round robin council simply to discuss and coordinate since they all have their own play styles and individualistic leaders. For those of you who didn't read the reiteration it asked that people refrain from flaming so that Davions could actually discuss it enmasse without distraction.

Azantia please back up and re-evaluate your position.

Goons, thank you for championing the Davion CoC but please leave Azantia be as the argument involved is old, tired and invalid now. Anything more than pure discussion is waste of virtual paper.

CoC:
A collection of units communicating and coordinating togethor providing for the common defense of House Davion.
Round Robin council of guilds/units/companys voting/discussing issues and solving Davion's problems.
Not an alliance... This is House Davion people if you are not already for House Davion get it in your heads that House Davion is greater than your unit since it is the House you choose to serve, and your Unit chooses to serve.

Edited by Meneiupptus, 18 June 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Meneiupptus, on 18 June 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

A collection of units communicating and coordinating togethor providing for the common defense of House Davion.
Round Robin council of guilds/units/companys voting/discussing issues and solving Davion's problems.
Not an alliance... This is House Davion people if you are not already for House Davion get it in your heads that House Davion is greater than your unit since it is the House you choose to serve, and your Unit chooses to serve.

And that's what we'd been saying, but there's a few who think they know better (or come off as such, doing them no favor,) because they've been a part of X or Y group longer. That was the initial rub and spark of dissent between people here.

Vandal, on 18 June 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I'd say we don't actually know anything about how much control will be given to the metagame/community warfare aspect of the game. What we do know is that after Goons posted an excellent thread discussing the various pitfalls and pros of the meta-warfare in many different online multiplayer games, the developers announced they were pushing back community warfare. I can only hope these two events are directly correlated, every little goonie boy and goonie girl wants to see the metagame be very in-depth and interesting to play, well past the initial release of the game.

We know you cannot control faction units, planets can be off limits per PGI saying so, and that you don't get choice over which targets your house is fighting over to any extent that makes any strategic decision actually be possible. It's limiting to be sure, and PGI is being careful to not let members of the community have too much sway over things best left out of players hands given the type of game PGI is making (read: not all battletech/mechwarrior games, where less limitations have/can work.)

Only Merc Cops atm truly get free reign to pick what they're going after, within the boundaries of what their loyalty points with a specific house gets them.

Things might change, and I don't mean to belittle you, but the decision for them to push back community warfare was so that it was complete and bug/abuse free (as much as they can,) and to have more time for balancing the actual meat and potatoes of the game....the 'mech combat, not because of one persons thread about it. I would say they read it and consider it, just like this and many other threads about how the actual live community should work and how Faction/House and Merc units should work in game.

You aren't going to see people getting a rank that allows them to drastically alter the theaters of war, and certainly nothing on the level of MPBT and it's ilk. If this changes, it certainly won't be for a few years.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 18 June 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Azantia]

Skoots, on 18 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Why dont you stop right there ya two year chump. Bringing this stuff in to stupid online froum about space robots like you should be entitled to something only cheapins the real sacrifices of real men and women.

until you back that statement up, you have no clout. I doubt you know the "real sacrifices of real men and women." with that type of an attitude. go back to playing war online kid, cause any vet worth his weight will never take away from anyone who has given sweat, blood and sacrifice for his country, cause there are so many out there who do not serve (its less than 1%, and not even 100% of those have deployed and seen combat.)

And given that someone was trying to insinuate that myself and the groups we belong to (which consist of upwards of 50 to 60% of current and former veterans) were cowardly, I had every right to bring it up there skoots, so take your one totally worthless post and GTFO of here, the adults (mostly) are talking.

Edited by Azantia, 18 June 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[Vandal]

Jack Gallows, on 18 June 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

We know you cannot control faction units, planets can be off limits per PGI saying so, and that you don't get choice over which targets your house is fighting over to any extent that makes any strategic decision actually be possible. It's limiting to be sure, and PGI is being careful to not let members of the community have too much sway over things best left out of players hands given the type of game PGI is making (read: not all battletech/mechwarrior games, where less limitations have/can work.)

Only Merc Cops atm truly get free reign to pick what they're going after, within the boundaries of what their loyalty points with a specific house gets them.

Things might change, and I don't mean to belittle you, but the decision for them to push back community warfare was so that it was complete and bug/abuse free (as much as they can,) and to have more time for balancing the actual meat and potatoes of the game....the 'mech combat, not because of one persons thread about it. I would say they read it and consider it, just like this and many other threads about how the actual live community should work and how Faction/House and Merc units should work in game.

You aren't going to see people getting a rank that allows them to drastically alter the theaters of war, and certainly nothing on the level of MPBT and it's ilk. If this changes, it certainly won't be for a few years.

I wonder how anybody can know anything about a feature that has been only vaguely alluded to and no concrete systems laid out for acceptable scrutiny at all. It would be easier I think to operate under the stance that we don't know what we don't know, instead of making assumptions!

A game in development can change very many times in the early stages, announced features are often radically different by launch time in every commercial product.

[Two Beans]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

until you back that statement up, you have no clout. I doubt you know the "real sacrifices of real men and women." with that type of an attitude. go back to playing war online kid, cause any vet worth his weight will never take away from anyone who has given sweat, blood and sacrifice for his country, cause there are so many out there who do not serve (its less than 1%, and not even 100% of those have deployed and seen combat.)

And given that someone was trying to insinuate that myself and the groups we belong to (which consist of upwards of 50 to 60% of current and former veterans) were cowardly, I had every right to bring it up there skoots, so take your one totally worthless post and GTFO of here, the adults (mostly) are talking.

hey army brat, shut up.

[Azantia]

TheKumquat, on 18 June 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

As a goon who has been to Iraq in the Army, I just came here to say that Azantia sounds like a big baby-coward and is full of crap. Azantia, quit being butthurt and listen to other people. It is quite clear you are wrong, and if you have to create a new account to escape the shame of admitting that you're wrong, I suggest you do so.



Edit: Also, serving any country in any conflict does not entitle you to special attention or privilege in an internet robot fighting game.

Actually when someone calls a person's courage into question when they dont know someones backround, there is nothing wrong about that. Remind me what you did in the Army again? Ill be waiting for that response, cause anyone who saw combat would never call another combat vet a coward. I appreciate your service to our country, thanks for what you did. Unfortunately it would seem you didnt learn a damn thing, which is a shame.

Two Beans, on 18 June 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

hey army brat, shut up.

Seriously, thats all you got? what a joke.....do yourself a favor. There are tons of insult generators online, invest in one, then come back. Ill be waiting....

How many more goons will come by to try and validate their existence?

Next!

Edited by Azantia, 18 June 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Two Beans]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Actually when someone calls a person's courage into question when they dont know someones backround, there is nothing wrong about that. Remind me what you did in the Army again? Ill be waiting for that response, cause anyone who saw combat would never call another combat vet a coward. I appreciate your service to our country, thanks for what you did. Unfortunately it would seem you didnt learn a damn thing, which is a shame.



Seriously, thats all you got? what a joke.....do yourself a favor. There are tons of insult generators online, invest in one, then come back. Ill be waiting.

no seriously beetle bailey, shut up.

[Jack Gallows]

Vandal, on 18 June 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I wonder how anybody can know anything about a feature that has been only vaguely alluded to and no concrete systems laid out for acceptable scrutiny at all. It would be easier I think to operate under the stance that we don't know what we don't know, instead of making assumptions!

It's quite easy, you go based on what you're told. And then you keep on top of info as it comes out from the devs. Read between the lines or read the info posted up front, it's not that hard. Bryan and quite a few other devs have been steadily active in providing info about various topics to the game and answering questions that crop up here or there.

Vandal, on 18 June 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

A game in development can change very many times in the early stages, announced features are often radically different by launch time in every commercial product.

Which is why my last few lines stated this very thing.

However, PGI is generally pretty vocal about announcing changes to information they've given us, and there's been little in the way that supports the idea that community warfare has been drastically changed in it's projected idea. They've repeatedly reinforced things like not allowing anyone to make units using canon names, nor having major names of individuals in the lore. We've also been told repeatedly that Faction (House) players cannot control units on more then one occasion, and that rank doesn't automatically dictate control over said faction, and that said functions would be quite limited (again on more then one occasion and dev blog.)

They've said nothing yet to the contrary, which would mean that it's possible that they can go more in depth in terms of what the community can do within their own house....but it doesn't make it incredibly probable.

And in depth control of a House isn't going to happen, not at release anyhow. It may never happen with how PGI's controlling the timeline, and I think people are thinking too much if they're expecting RISK in space. (Extra turn at the start and you can NEVER hold onto all of Eurasia.)

Edited by Jack Gallows, 18 June 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Azantia]

Two Beans, on 18 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

no seriously beetle bailey, shut up.

No seriously. Google insult generator....you need it...if you are going for a real insult, at least use Gomer Pile, hell even Private Murphy would have been somewhat insulting.

Edited by Azantia, 18 June 2012 - 08:49 PM.

[Vandal]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

No seriously. Google insult generator....you need it.

I dunno, I thought that one was pretty funny.

[Azantia]

Vandal, on 18 June 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

I dunno, I thought that one was pretty funny.

Anyone with a 12 year old mentality would...I doubt you even knew what he was referring to when he mentioned beetle bailey, but hey, it sure was funny!

[Two Beans]

Azantia, on 18 June 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Anyone with a 12 year old mentality would...I doubt you even knew what he was referring to when he mentioned beetle bailey, but hey, it sure was funny!

Stop posting.

[Azantia]

Two Beans, on 18 June 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

Stop posting.

How many goons does it take?

[TheKumquat]

Guys you don't GET it. My experience in the military means I'm RIGHT ABOUT SPACE ROBOTS. The two are the SAME THING. GOSH.