734 replies to this topic

[LordRush]

Azantia, on 04 February 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Clearly, you do not and will not understand. You are the epitome of what myself and Colonel Gallows are talking about. It is clear we disagree, and I believe that over the course of the next few months, you are going to find that we arent in a wings bar, we are in a bruins bar, you just prefer to see red.

To funny...what you just said , YOU and Jack G; and thats all I see here really. What you guys dont know are there are two other forums that are not attached here at MWO that have DOZENS of members who have long deliberated over this...and where are you two at?

[Azantia]

I like how you tote your "combat" decorations in the AFFS Regiment List thread. Now THAT gave me a laugh.
Note : You're the only one who did.

Edited by Azantia, 04 February 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[LordRush]

lol Azantia...We can step outside if you want to make this personal or we can remain gentlemen about this.

Lets just chalk this one up to "Agree to disagree"....

You all have your own ideals, and we have ours. I just hope for your sake at the end of the day it doesnt alienate the game.
After all, the game as a whole is priority number 1

[Jack Gallows]

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

To funny...what you just said , YOU and Jack G; and thats all I see here really. What you guys dont know are there are two other forums that are not attached here at MWO that have DOZENS of members who have long deliberated over this...and where are you two at?

On the MW:O forums, where it matters? Don't read that as your other forums don't matter, that's not the issue...but it seems bass ackwards to tell us to go to forum that isn't the main forum for the game that everyone wants to play, as if it has some kind of real bearing on our legitimacy.

Also, dozen doesn't = the near 50k people who've registered, so if you really want to play a numbers game...you're the minority, your bar analogy is pretty thin and really has no bearing on the proceedings.

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

lol Personally, I think it's your ego that is clouded due to you thinking you can just walk into someplace declaring that you are "here" and disregarding what has already been established long before your delivery. Just saying

Ego is thinking previous game experience has any kind of headway or has some kind of automatic clout in a brand new video game and mixed community. We aren't trying to degrade you or your friends, or the people that came before, but it's everyone's game equally...not some old communities just because they say so. Your other community came here and joined a bigger community. We're not a split community at the end of the day, and what you did on an old community has exactly squat importance when compared to how large this new community is with concerns on who deserves what or who paid what due.

You're right in the fact that we need to work together...but that's everyone. No baggage from a previous game, or community, because you aren't the only ones with said baggage.

I applaud your community for having been together for so long, and that they're active and interested in MW:O, but the way you're approaching this is almost akin to the Clan Invasion, and we're the plucky IS that has to band together to bring everything on level. (Ok, just having fun with that last bit, lol.)

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

lol Azantia...We can step outside if you want to make this personal or we can remain gentlemen about this.

Lets just chalk this one up to "Agree to disagree"....

You all have your own ideals, and we have ours. I just hope for your sake at the end of the day it doesnt alienate the game.
After all, the game as a whole is priority number 1

And that's what I'm trying to do. Avoid people being alienated by a group of individuals who think they should have more say then someone else because they know more people in a brand new video game, deciding things for others that the others should have fair and equal say in regardless of if they've known each other for 10 years or what have you.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 04 February 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[LordRush]

Jack Gallows, on 04 February 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

On the MW:O forums, where it matters? Don't read that as your other forums don't matter, that's not the issue...but it seems bass ackwards to tell us to go to forum that isn't the main forum for the game that everyone wants to play, as if it has some kind of real bearing on our legitimacy.

Also, dozen doesn't = the near 50k people who've registered, so if you really want to play a numbers game...you're the minority, your bar analogy is pretty thin and really has no bearing on the proceedings.



Ego is thinking previous game experience has any kind of headway or has some kind of automatic clout in a brand new video game and mixed community. We aren't trying to degrade you or your friends, or the people that came before, but it's everyone's game equally...not some old communities just because they say so. Your other community came here and joined a bigger community. We're not a split community at the end of the day, and what you did on an old community has exactly squat importance when compared to how large this new community is with concerns on who deserves what or who paid what due.

You're right in the fact that we need to work together...but that's everyone. No baggage from a previous game, or community, because you aren't the only ones with said baggage.

I applaud your community for having been together for so long, and that they're active and interested in MW:O, but the way you're approaching this is almost akin to the Clan Invasion, and we're the plucky IS that has to band together to bring everything on level. (Ok, just having fun with that last bit, lol.)




And that's what I'm trying to do. Avoid people being alienated by a group of individuals who think they should have more say then someone else because they know more people in a brand new video game, deciding things for others that the others should have fair and equal say in regardless of if they've known each other for 10 years or what have you.

LOL Agreed...This is how Civil Wars are started!

[Jack Gallows]

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

LOL Agreed...This is how Civil Wars are started!

Just trying to avoid the multitude of pitfalls that can come with a set up like this, and making sure everyone gets a fair say in the matter if we do decide to have a CoC.

Nothing worse then you trying to set one up and people ignoring it because they don't know you, or don't like how you made selections/etc.

[Qin]

I think we can agree that no matter how much or less of the COC is intergrated in the game, that a House that works together as a team has a far better chance of succes of defending their realm and attacking the other Houses.

Also to make a succesfull COC it will be important to get the communities that have been out there over the years together, and work together to form the core of a new community here.

A great community can add a lot to the enjoyment of the game, while one feuding community will lessen it.

I for one would like to see the different community leaders get together on some forum, get to know each other and in due time start to lay some groundwork. Wont have to be tomorrow, but sooner or later we will need to get some talks going.

[GenSheridan]

First of all i'd like to say to LordRush: if your goal is to not alienate anyone, you missed your mark... HUGE!

secondly your bar analogy is so far off base it's not funny...

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Ok...here is a scenerio based situation for use as an example.

You travel into Las Vegas one day from Boston. There is a Bar that you decide to venture into. When entering you happen to notice alot of people celebrating the grand re-opening. Looks very cheery and friendly. The place looks "almost" brand new and you hear people talking about how the bar used to look.
On the TV monitor is a hockey game. You stroll up to a group of people and say "Bruins playing tonight"? And some peeps say "Naw...Wings are on" , you reply "You guys should really turn on the Bruins game" and the gents turn and reply "Uh..We are Wings fans,after all...this is a Wings fan Bar"
The more you look around the more you notice that ALOT of people are wings fans,as well..ALOT of people are actually regulars.
What choice do you have at that point? Go find a place that air Bruins games? Or..join in with the crowd watching the Wings.

this "bar" of a new game we have here is not the reopening of a bar in Las Vegas, but it's a brand new bar in Dallas, and the arrogance in thinking that because someone ran a bar somewhere else means they should automatically run this new bar is quite offensive. As a matter of fact the folks that ran a bar in Boston, as well as the ones that ran a bar in NYC, Chicago, Walla Walla Washington or where ever all have the same qualifications as anyone else. By the way, your "us and them" statement clearly shows your hostility towards anyone not in your clique. (please prove me wrong) As far as Col Gallows being "on the outside looking in," you and i are both standing right there beside him.... we are ALL new to this game no matter from what community we come.

LordRush, on 04 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

You all have your own ideals, and we have ours. I just hope for your sake at the end of the day it doesnt alienate the game.
After all, the game as a whole is priority number 1

now I am quite sure that those that have run a bar in the past and offer to lend their expertise to running this bar will shine and make House Davion the greatest house there is, but just because we have not "paid our dues" in your world does not mean our dues have not been paid.

in fact, to follow your line of thinking, none of you have "paid your dues" in my gaming community, so you are all disqualified from holding any position in the high command............

kinda turns ya off doesn't it?? pretty offensive isn't it?? as a matter of fact i bet you are thinking, "who is this guy and what makes him king dog splat" Well, that's EXACTLY what you are trying to do to anyone not a part of your group.

If we are to have a "high command" then those that get elected should do so through their MW:O merits alone!

anyway that's my 2 credits worth, and also for what it's worth, the little exposure i have had to Qin has proven to me that he indeed has the potential to be a member of the high command.

Edited by GenSheridan, 05 February 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[Azantia]

I have said my piece, and I stick by it. We have agreed to disagree. You talk about a unified house and use terms like success, community and defense of the realm/house to help disguise your agenda. Which can be clearly seen by isolating the 2nd and 4th paragraph/sentences. You guys have made your point painstakingly clear. You believe that you are entitled to some "high command" slots because you held them before, and put in work in another gaming community and league. That is the only side of "your community" I have seen as of yet. I have yet to see an attitude like you describe when you say you want an open line of communication between community leaders, or that you are interested in the greater community. All I have seen is the interest to maintain status quo. Perhaps I am off-base, who knows, my job makes me hypersensitive at times to these things, but people are people, and generally try as they might, it take a real devious person to truely hide his agenda well. Until I see a dedicated shift in the tone, wordplay and general attitude of some of these "experienced" gaming community members, I am not likely to change my mind.

To me the community leaders who are positively encouraging the greater community are posting threads like : Hey who is running what units and how many people do you have? Lets get together and talk. Pappy comes to mind, and while I understand he was part of the MPBT community, he has the correct approach, as opposed to some other individuals here.

Personally, I really dont care for myself beyond the fact that I will not play for a unit that exists as part of a CoC that I disagree with and/or have no basis for communal respect for. This is the exact thing that kept me from playing for House Davion in NBT4 and Mercs leagues.

You guys keep missing the point. Respect is earned. And all I keep hearing is "Hey, we ran the CoC for House Davion before for another game, so you should trust us, and if you dont, well too bad cause we have earned it." Not a good way to earn anyone's respect, and a great way to alienate newer community members and to as you say, divide us as a house.

Now you could have been the best leaders battletech has ever seen for all I know, but you dont portray that through the tone of your messages.

Now you could genuinely want this community to be strong and truely believe in giving new mechwarriors and leaders a chance to be a part of your future community, but you dont portray that through the tone of your messages.

Thats the last I will say on the topic as it is very very clear that on principle and philosophy, we simply disagree. Hopefully it works out in a positive fashion for the House Davion community.

[LordRush]

Look you guys..lol Really, you are taking this waaaaay to serious. Lighten up fer crying out loud.
We don't even have a game yet,seriously. And Im going to bet you that when the word does come about a COC that we are all hitting left field. AI will more than likely be the scenario here. And if it is? I think your going to have to worry alot more than Human interaction. Really, take a step back..lol

For the sake of argument however /grins

I only have one comment from General Sheridan who wrote

"in fact, to follow your line of thinking, none of you have "paid your dues" in my gaming community, so you are all disqualified from holding any position in the high command............

kinda turns ya off doesn't it?? pretty offensive isn't it?? as a matter of fact i bet you are thinking, "who is this guy and what makes him king dog splat" Well, that's EXACTLY what you are trying to do to anyone not a part of your group."

No..it doesnt, not the least. And If I were the one who was new...I'd respect that tradition because it was there before me.
In this community how is anyone able to provide anyone with a resume of experience in MWO? You cant because there IS no MWO to play! No one here has anymore experience than the next because there isnt anything TO experience. So...its the next best thing. The people I refer to have had YEARS of experience "prior" to playing this game. It may not be MWO but its no more of an experience than they already have had.
Its a mech...you go out and destroy. How much experience do you have? Are you saying that a noob that never played this game should be given merit?
Believe me...I am FAR from tooting my own horn. This isnt what all this is about. It is about those that have had a numerous amounts of years being in the public eye who have been deemed respectable authority figures by people who have also played this game in some shape or form for lots of years. They have delegated,coordinated and kept a tight circle of operations. See, the job isn't just a person who's face is shown periodically..this is a full time job. There is more to this than meets the eye. So much so that the officials I have deemed fit for duty would probably be willing to hand over ANY responsibility just because at times...it just isnt fun. And after all, this is just a game...and if you cant have fun doing what your doing than why do it? Because these people are passionate about this game and want to see the faction they pledged oath's to survive and flourish.

Edited by LordRush, 05 February 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[Azantia]

you are unbelievable, seriously. I already said, im not going to argue anymore, we have agreed to disagree. Good Luck.

[CPTAmerica]

I think everyone just needs to take a step back, breathe deep, realize this is a new community, agree we are starting something new and special, and therefore elect me First Prince.

I actually think that a forum thread should be opened where the CO (and maybe their XO) of each of the Davion units can comprise a kind of Think Tank. This should show you who wants to take a larger responsibility in the game. You all get to hear the thoughts and potential strategies of these COs and can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of each. Once it is determined how community created chain of commands will impact game play if at all, those COs can elect positions from among the COs of the Davion Units based on their participation in this forum and their ideas.

I do believe that if you are going to do something like this, you do it in the community which it is designed to govern and leave it open to those members. How can it be fair to members of this community if individuals are basing decisions on matters from other communities where many members do not have access or even know about. Example: Member X may run the entire Horde Guilds community but, it doesn't mean jack because Members A - J don't play that game, know who Member X is, or know the other forums Member X posts on thereby have no input in those discussions.

MWO community is the only community that matters for MWO decisions.

Edited by CPTAmerica, 05 February 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[LordRush]

Azantia, on 05 February 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

you are unbelievable, seriously. I already said, im not going to argue anymore, we have agreed to disagree. Good Luck.

LOL you are just itching arent you!!! lighten up dood ::tips the hat::

[Azantia]

No Rush I am not "itching", as much as you would like that. What I am, is shaking my head in disappointment and wondering why people are the way they are. Disappointing.

[Qin]

In general. Chat/mail/forums are limited on what they can convey. As humans we are used to to convey or thoughts and meaning with more then just words, and its easy that a few lines will mean something diverent then what a person tried to say. What in a face to face talk could be interpreted as a honest conversation can easily be read as having another meaning when only read. Its easy to read something between the lines when we have certain expectations.

So lets try to give each other some leeway.

[Dihm]

I do have to ask how much any of this discussion will have any bearing on MWO anyway.

From what we know so far, players cannot command faction units, only merc units. There won't be a Davion, Kurita, Liao, whatever, CoC within the game. If there is one, it would all be external to the game, and have no ability to accept, reject, or kick players from the Davion faction, or from the units within the Davion faction. The only player-controlled units will be mercs, though they have said they MAY add player-controled faction units at some point post-launch.

[LordRush]

Azantia...

I wanted to take a moment to apologize for my comments on the whole "outside" thing. I think I missed my mark on that one to. An attempt at humor could easily be misconstrued. I meant nothing by it. Please accept my sincerest apology.

[Jack Gallows]

LordRush, on 05 February 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Look you guys..lol Really, you are taking this waaaaay to serious. Lighten up fer crying out loud.
We don't even have a game yet,seriously. And Im going to bet you that when the word does come about a COC that we are all hitting left field. AI will more than likely be the scenario here. And if it is? I think your going to have to worry alot more than Human interaction. Really, take a step back..lol

I think you're implying things that aren't the case, at least not for me. I'm merely having a good discussion about the possibility of a CoC, should it exist, and the issues I find to be a danger to it's implementation if we (the entire community) really want to do something like it. I would ask that you stop attaching intent/mood to my posts, though I understand it is incredibly easy to misunderstand with text, so it's not like I take offense to any of it. (And hope I've not offered any offense.)

I've been posting here because I enjoy talking with the potential players I'm going to be working with and fighting with in the game, regardless of where they come from or where they'll end up after the game launch. I need to see replies to my posts to gauge and test those that would desire or recommend someone as a leader/etc, I need something to work off of to make my decisions. I am not getting heated, I am not worried nor am I stressing really over anything in this post, I just like having good discussions. I'm a bit perplexed at the apparent tone it's taken, but it's more for me to think on and help mold my ideas of who is what and how they work.

That said, I've come to the current conclusion that I believe a CoC to be an incredibly bad idea. Those of the older Mechwarrior community that is trying to express their views and ideals I find lacking in what I'd consider to be good skills needed for it based on what I've seen so far and the exchanges that have happened between myself and others in the thread. Now, it's not all bad, but I'm honestly against the idea of anyone having any sort of claim that they somehow deserve anything more then the good man standing next to them. That is not my only reasoning, but it's one that has been reinforced the more that the conversation has gone on.

Nothing is set in stone, and things can change between now and MW:O launch. I shall enjoy a further discussion and ability to get to know many more posters and individuals posting on these forums, including this thread, and maintain the right to change my mind at a later date.

Unless things change drastically however, I have very little faith in a CoC for House Davion or anything beyond.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 06 February 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[LordRush]

I understand Jack,however...I'd like to add that this is not only a Davion issue. This will be spread through all houses and EVERYONE will have to deal with this.
But, lets take this discussion to the left for a moment.
I am curious to pick your brain and to see your method of madness

For instance. If today, we got word this game is coming out in a month. We find out that a system will be in place that will require a human interactive CoC. How would you suggest going about selecting a panel of leaders.

[Paladin1]

I've been watching this thread devolve and, frankly, I have to admit that Jack has a point. You guys from the earlier online games may have an existing community, but that doesn't give you the right to expect us to fall into line with your ordained leaders.

LordRush, you've touted the experience of several of your leaders as 10-15 years of leadership experience. That's fine, but what about those of us who are 25+ year veterans? What about those of us who were members of MFNA, MFUK and MFG back before the online days? Better yet, what about those of us who are established members of the Old Guard, who remember the real PTB back before they accepted the mantle? What about those of us who have, repeatedly, planned multi-regiment invasions and mapped them out during their TT gaming days?

I'm not knocking the experience and family feel that the online communities have created over the last decade and a half, but please do realize that in the grand, overarching scheme of things, you online guys are the rookies and the late-comers to the show. Why should we just allow you to dictate the CoC to us?

Base the CoC on actual experience with MW:O and merit, not past games or you're going to be looking silly when the rest of the Old Guard find you. 25 years beats 15 years every time if you go strictly by time in title, so to speak.