734 replies to this topic

[Meneiupptus]

I would just like to point out that in the last two pages more constructive work on a CoC has been accomplished then the previous 18 pages. Thats what Commuications is about.

Even if all the CO's just get togethor to share drinks at least something towards working togethor just happened. Without knowing the mechanics it is hard to determine the level so plan for both. I recommend all the CO's ... since basically COs order their own troops get togethor and get to know each other. It doesn't matter if you like each other just that you like the enemy less than each other.

Who is the stated enemy of House Davion? Anyone and everyone that doesn't wear the tags of House Davion.


BTW there was some confusion about the word Goon I used in my earlier post: Goonsquad is a unit in Eve Online. at their heyday they shook the universe and fielded troops in the largest online war in gaming history to my knowledge.... in the numbers of 2-3 thousand players on both sides... with multiple front wars in many systems. BoB is another huge force like the Goonsquad but as I was responding to the post before Goons were the only ones mentioned. If you know either than you know they are true ****** and dedicated to null space or neutral kingdoms. Expect them and be prepared to fight them.

[Jack Gallows]

Listless Nomad, on 04 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

The 1st Robinson Rangers, 1st Blackburn's Raiders, and the Skjaldborg Shieldwall, are all merc units.

Just to clarify, we are not a merc unit.

The 1st Blackburn's Raiders are going to be all Davion faction players, and until such time as they allow fan created units in House (which they said is on their list to do,) we are all going to pick a specific NPC ran unit to display on our 'mechs. Any other management will be housed on our custom site, so we really don't need the game to provide us with much since we're pretty autonomous anyway.

[Tha DoggFather]

Azantia, on 04 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Thats what normal people do Nomad. But they want more. Bigger Egos need bigger better positions, with more things to control. Pretty simple really.

There's that trolling thing again. Tisk tisk.

What's more hilarious is that you talk about people having egos and such, and yet after a quick browse of your unit's thread you boast "Make the right choice, choose to be amongst the best."

Uh, ego? And I really, really have to know how you, or anyone for that matter in your unit, is the best? Because the second anyone from my "geriatric" era ever claims we were any good at all, it's ego. You claim you're the best and it's somehow fact, based off what I'll never know.

And my ego says that if you have to call yourself the best, you aren't.

Edited by Tha DoggFather, 04 April 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Tha DoggFather, on 04 April 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

There's that trolling thing again. Tisk tisk.

What's more hilarious is that you talk about people having egos and such, and yet after a quick browse of your unit's thread you boast "Make the right choice, choose to be amongst the best."

Uh, ego? And I really, really have to know how you, or anyone for that matter in your unit, is the best? Because the second anyone from my "geriatric" era ever claims we were any good at all, it's ego. You claim you're the best and it's somehow fact, based off what I'll never know.

And my ego says that if you have to call yourself the best, you aren't.

Uh...ever heard of propaganda?

[Tha DoggFather]

Jack Gallows, on 04 April 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Uh...ever heard of propaganda?

Is this your way of acknowledging my post is spot on?

Foot Soldier #1: Sir, you said we were the best, why do we always lose?
Jack Gallows: Propaganda son, propaganda.

[Listless Nomad]

Jack Gallows, on 04 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Just to clarify, we are not a merc unit.

The 1st Blackburn's Raiders are going to be all Davion faction players, and until such time as they allow fan created units in House (which they said is on their list to do,) we are all going to pick a specific NPC ran unit to display on our 'mechs. Any other management will be housed on our custom site, so we really don't need the game to provide us with much since we're pretty autonomous anyway.

Apologies Jack - I'll amend that.

EDIT - amended.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 04 April 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[nightsniper]

Tha DoggFather, on 04 April 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

There's that trolling thing again. Tisk tisk.

What's more hilarious is that you talk about people having egos and such, and yet after a quick browse of your unit's thread you boast "Make the right choice, choose to be amongst the best."

Uh, ego? And I really, really have to know how you, or anyone for that matter in your unit, is the best? Because the second anyone from my "geriatric" era ever claims we were any good at all, it's ego. You claim you're the best and it's somehow fact, based off what I'll never know.

And my ego says that if you have to call yourself the best, you aren't.

And the crowd roars and Chants DOGG DOGG DOGG they swarm him and lift him high into the air and carry him off to O'Malley's pub for a pint, a song and a wench on each arm DOGG DOGG DOGG!

[Azantia]

A common tool used in manipulation is to take things very literally. Take your above statement. Who doesnt have a recruitment message that says join us because we are something special or the best?

Ego is stepping into a scene thinking that you should lead a chain of command just because you have done it before.
Ego is talking down to other gaming communities or groups because they were not a part of your special group from another game.
Ego is telling everyone else they have something to prove to YOUR gaming community..
Ego is to listing your "in-game" history and achievements in an attempt to legitimize yourself in a community.
Ego is refusing to acknowledge what other community members / teams say because it doesnt conform to your original idea or meet your end goal.
Ego is taking titles such as "prince" within a faction when in sub-genre-reality only one exists.

If we take all of this literally, then yeah, there is plenty of ego to go around.

Here is the problem we keep coming to :

We believe in fair play for everyone involved.

You guys want to play favorites / good ol boys club and refuse to acknowledge the concerns of other gaming groups.

Face it, what you guys want is to be in control. Admit it and we will move on. Admit that yes you have an Ego. Admit that yes you like to be in command / control, Admit that you believe that no one else here is capable of accomplishing the same things that your group is.

As soon as you Admit it. We will move along. Our goal is to make sure the community understands these things, so they can make an informed decision as to weather or not to participate in your community / chain of command

[nightsniper]

I am fascinated by your retorical cry for attention AZ. But who is we besides you and Jack Gallows I have not seen the hord decending your unit has about 16 players and your put out because you don't think your being given the proper attention.

God man! grow up your leadershiop skills may mean something somewhere else but your cred here is really lacking. I want to open the door to everyone but you really are acting the role of a Troll. Go back to Eve or Rift or where ever you came from your not a true Davion. You are found lacking what it would take to lead in the first place. Besides the only Ego here is that of an upstart looking to prove he does not have to wear short pants any more and have his mother whipe his nose. Move on, other then your unit your just not impressing anyone with that 16 year old attitude.

You want a place in CoC your lucky they will let you in line at the door!

Edited by nightsniper, 04 April 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Tha DoggFather, on 04 April 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Is this your way of acknowledging my post is spot on?

Foot Soldier #1: Sir, you said we were the best, why do we always lose?
Jack Gallows: Propaganda son, propaganda.

...really?

You mean you've never seen a unit, clan, group, whatever, say in a recruitment post that they're the best? Do you know the meaning of the word best, and the fact that it's subjective?

Come join the Jolly Rogers....we're Mediocre! WOOO?

Do you REALLY think we're claiming to be the VERY best mech pilots in existence and that no one else measures up? Because I totally come off as someone who thinks we're completely so far beyond everyone else that if you aren't in my unit, then you must SUCK? To me it's the best unit cause it's my unit. I'm proud of it, and I'll say "Come join the best!" like countless other units are bound to do, now and in the future. If you can't wrap your head around that, I'm sorry.

[Meneiupptus]

Actually anyone claiming to be the best before the game is premature. You can be the best of friends, best bunch of gamers you've worked with but unless your in Alpha or Closed Beta and you are the best group in game its nothing but talk... and if you are in Alpha or Beta don't say anything to that effect as it might violate NDA. Not here to get anyone in trouble.

I also used the Catch phrase "We're not the best but we're always there." in Shadowbane and it got us pretty well set. We proved reliability and trustworthiness to our friends and though initially we lost allot we won in the end. Very American of us So I debunk the theory that propoganda is necessary. If you want to prove your worth to me... show me. I value Honesty, Loyalty, Respect and Decency. I could care less if your cross eyed and can't hit the broadside of a barn while painting it. Good people are hard to find... skill can be trained but loyalty has to be earned.

Now back to what is important. The CoC. Pappy runs a really good meet and greet that I have been trying to get to. maybe we see each other there. Would be nice to talk in person without interruptions.

[Azantia]

nightsniper, on 04 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I am fascinated by your retorical cry for attention AZ. But who is we besides you and Jack Gallows I have not seen the hord decending your unit has about 16 players and your put out because you don't think your being given the proper attention.

God man! grow up your leadershiop skills may mean something somewhere else but your cred here is really lacking. I want to open the door to everyone but you really are acting the role of a Troll. Go back to Eve or Rift or where ever you came from your not a true Davion. You are found lacking what it would take to lead in the first place. Besides the only Ego here is that of an upstart looking to prove he does not have to wear short pants any more and have his mother whipe his nose. Move on, other then your unit your just not impressing anyone with that 16 year old attitude.

You want a place in CoC your lucky they will let you in line at the door!

Well played sir, high class. Truly.
It was somewhat amusing that we hit the mark so close to the truth to make you come at me with so much venom.
Your attempt is rather juvenile and to be honest, unfocused. I have seen better insults and personal retorts from Afghan goat farmers in the poorest regions of Afghanistan with nothing more than a 2nd grade education, through a language barrier none-the-less.

Edited by Azantia, 04 April 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Meneiupptus, on 04 April 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Actually anyone claiming to be the best before the game is premature. You can be the best of friends, best bunch of gamers you've worked with but unless your in Alpha or Closed Beta and you are the best group in game its nothing but talk... and if you are in Alpha or Beta don't say anything to that effect as it might violate NDA. Not here to get anyone in trouble.

I'm beginning to think you really don't understand or are greatly overreacting. To focus on such an unimportant segment of a post to pick apart, for no reason mind you as it's just a recruitment post in good humor, seems like you're clutching at straws or are just looking for things to complain about.

Listless Nomad, on 04 April 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Apologies Jack - I'll amend that.

EDIT - amended.

Thanks, we played around with the idea for a bit, and we still may consider it depending if players can branch out from house to merc or back, but we figure right now since we can group together it's fine if we aren't recognized as an actual unit by the game, it doesn't change that we'll be playing together.

nightsniper, on 04 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I am fascinated by your retorical cry for attention AZ. But who is we besides you and Jack Gallows I have not seen the hord decending your unit has about 16 players and your put out because you don't think your being given the proper attention.

Learn to read an entire post, if you can't see who is and isn't for a CoC and can't count, that's of no fault of ours.. Also, not that it's important, but the Jolly Rogers have over 35 members.

nightsniper, on 04 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

God man! grow up your leadershiop skills may mean something somewhere else but your cred here is really lacking. I want to open the door to everyone but you really are acting the role of a Troll. Go back to Eve or Rift or where ever you came from your not a true Davion. You are found lacking what it would take to lead in the first place.

The irony is thick here. Those of the "old guard" or older communities may have leadership skills and might mean something to others, but their cred here to me and others is lacking. That's the original point of dissent, we aren't taking people at face value when they say someone is good to lead the CoC, because we haven't met them/have met them and they're sincerely under equipped to handle the job.

nightsniper, on 04 April 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Besides the only Ego here is that of an upstart looking to prove he does not have to wear short pants any more and have his mother whipe his nose. Move on, other then your unit your just not impressing anyone with that 16 year old attitude.

You want a place in CoC your lucky they will let you in line at the door!

Honestly, the name calling on either side is rather pointless. As I've said before, all it does is make people look like idiots. We've also already stated that we're not going to support a CoC depending on how it's determined, because what we feel we've seen here isn't healthy for Davion or the game as a whole. You can and most likely will disagree, but I and others don't see the value in having to trust someone else who says they have experience, when we've never met them and haven't played with them. Even if we don't support a CoC now, doesn't mean that if one is trying to form and trying to be a House CoC, then we're going to forever give our input because they're going to try to affect the House we're a a part of.

Basically, old and new community has to do a better job of getting to know each other...without one claiming their superior because of a perceived advantage in experience....when they could very well be wrong.

This game, as has been stated before, probably isn't going to have much of any of players directing attacks/etc. And it's probably better off that way, at least in the beginning. A CoC probably isn't needed (though not being needed doesn't always mean having one isn't fun, which doesn't negate it being valuable,) and probably isn't going to be able to actually achieve much with how the game system is probably going to play out. Speculation, but a good theory based on what PGI has told us before.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 04 April 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Azantia]

Meneiupptus, on 04 April 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Actually anyone claiming to be the best before the game is premature. You can be the best of friends, best bunch of gamers you've worked with but unless your in Alpha or Closed Beta and you are the best group in game its nothing but talk... and if you are in Alpha or Beta don't say anything to that effect as it might violate NDA. Not here to get anyone in trouble.

I also used the Catch phrase "We're not the best but we're always there." in Shadowbane and it got us pretty well set. We proved reliability and trustworthiness to our friends and though initially we lost allot we won in the end. Very American of us So I debunk the theory that propoganda is necessary. If you want to prove your worth to me... show me. I value Honesty, Loyalty, Respect and Decency. I could care less if your cross eyed and can't hit the broadside of a barn while painting it. Good people are hard to find... skill can be trained but loyalty has to be earned.

Now back to what is important. The CoC. Pappy runs a really good meet and greet that I have been trying to get to. maybe we see each other there. Would be nice to talk in person without interruptions.

Pappy and his crew are really really really great guys. We have gotten to know them pretty well in the last few weeks, and have done some great training with their unit. Pappy is a very gracious host and a good solid leader for the Rangers. He is the example to me of an individual who has upheld the ideals of respect and fairness to everyone more than any other unit leader I have seen yet. He has a huge unit to oversee, but is always willing to help other units in this community. He is what the "Old Guard" should really look to for an example of how to conduct themselves in this community, in order to open lines of communication. If they would have been a bit more like Ol'Pappy from the start, this thread would probably look ALOT different.

Want to Highlight your words here :
"If you want to prove your worth to me... show me. I value Honesty, Loyalty, Respect and Decency."

This is a two way street. It may not have been met on our side, but it most certainly has not been met on the opposite side either. So to take this kind of a stance is a little bit self-righteous and arrogant, dont you think? If I would have felt like the old guard was giving a shred of decency / respect to the community as a whole and felt like the "Old Guard" was being fair and honest, I would not be combative, and I would put money down on the fact that you would have had very little issues. Im also going to highlight to the Old Guard that I have no interest in "leading" or being "Major Player" in the Chain of Command, but if I am going to be a "Part" of it, Im going to make sure that the people I am "following" are people I respect and have confidence / faith in. The "Old Guards" Ego blinds them to so many things. You see, we believe in the same principles just like you and when they are not given to all of this community, and are reserved by some for a select few...that makes me stand against those individuals and their ideals. I will always fight for what I believe in, and the principles of fairness, honesty and decency are among them.

Decency is what you give to someone you don't know. I think of it as a baseline amount of respect for a person being a person. Some people have it, some people don't. Respect is earned, any adult knows that. Its hard to earn and easy to lose, but more than anything else, Respect is a two way street. You cant expect to get it, if you dont give it. Loyalty works the same way.

Honesty is about truth. Truth requires transparency and consistency. We will continue to say the same things (Fair-Play for everyone in the community.) and completely speak our mind (Consistency and Transparency) on the topic in this community, for all to see.

Edited by Azantia, 04 April 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[LordRush]

lol..::shakes head:: Man...the psychology at use here..lol We should all be politicians.

Az..lol man, your reaching. But to humor you. Pappy...lol dood, Pappy has been around. And yes...he is doing a GREAT job at coordination.
Yes, that is a HUGE quality and very respectable. Yes...His unit I am sure, he is quite involved with.

See man...these are ALL things we wish for the same. The only difference is..we do things just a wee bit different. Mostly the logistics in what kind of beer we drink Seriously, there is no difference. Accept maybe one. Numbers. I have seen some posts from you about this and feel compelled to chime in.
Not sure exactly how your math is converted in MW:O however. Not mocking, just didnt get where your numbers were derived from.
Hopefully mine wont create the same confusion...lol

Lets see here...
So Russ has already said that unique member registrations have exceeded the forum registration count which is roughly 80k.
Now, assuming that we get around 100k at launch and assuming that the house distribution is equal [which logic says it wont be,but humor me],that is 20k per house.
Time zones - keeping on the trend of equal division amongst player/house. That roughly equates to around 800 possible house members available at every hour on the hour,24 hours a day.
Now..lets take a realistic approach....
Lets drop those numbers in half. To me at least, this is a much more approachable number

400 possible online members at one time. Divide that by 3 for each game platform [house,merc,lonewolf]. [still going with the equal in mind] that comes roughly around the 130's.
130 possible hourly people playing different campaigns. granted we know nothing about how many planets will be made available,nor contracts,nor do we know if the three gaming platforms will share the same territories or if they are completely separate.
However....with that said our good ol boy club will be bringing 14 units with the possibility up to 20. All with a min. of 20-30 committed enlisted per unit.
Now..granted, you stated if we can get up to 3000. No..not gonna happen. NO one will have that. But do the math and that aint bad.
Dont forget time zones...this is a huge factor. No one will be on 24 hours continual. As it is, EVERYONES units will be spread out. Hell, my unit alone consists of a 1/3 from the east coast..
Do you get what I am getting?

In essence, your units are going to run into WAY more of us than of others. Situations are going to arise during gameplay. Our units are trained to react. And sheer numbers alone combined with a like minded mentality can cause widespread panic....lol
We have all fought together on multiple MW/BT platforms, that it we almost know what the other is going to say.
::looks at Rygat:: DONT SAY ANYTHING!!
Ok...im exaggerating , but you get the point.

Question: Remember how the IS3025 map/capture system went? I cant help but think the system will be similar. Purely speculating.
But! If it is...remember how peeps would be on the verge of taking a capital but because the supply line was cut off all of our boyz got stranded with no reinforcements? All of that could have been averted if only some of the peeps playing would have taken into the consideration of Vets who said "We are taking the Capital, Units are in place,We need units to drop position and head south to keep supplies open" ...but really, that game was available for how long? And MW:O wont make a difference either. A simple voice of reason turned away due to "I dont know you, who are you to give me orders"
You know...I hope for your guys sake there will be a drop system where you are able to drop with your friends instead of a random lance pairing. Remember back in MPBT where if you came into a room someone would politely ask you to leave as they have another lance member arriving? Or how about you asking someone to leave and they dont? How did you deal with that?

In other words....all these are aspects that will occur in MW:O. It might have a new background singer...but the song remains the same.

[Mason Grimm]

(sighs)

I've had to go and read over this whole thread after receiving numerous complaint tickets. Not what I wanted to do on a day off and pre-coffee. Next infraction/insult/troll fest earns a 24 hr temp ban and, like gas prices, it will only get worse from there.

It stops... now...

The Law According to Grimm

[Tha DoggFather]

Man just as I respond, the mod has to come and a ruin my fun. It was a good one too.

Edited by Tha DoggFather, 05 April 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Kensaisama]

Having a CoC involving the leaders of different units is bad mojo. You get what we currently have in this thread. Do you honestly want that kind of headache? May I suggest an Arthurian approach, a.k.a the round table.

Kensai the wandering warrior

[Tha DoggFather]

Kensaisama, on 05 April 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Having a CoC involving the leaders of different units is bad mojo. You get what we currently have in this thread. Do you honestly want that kind of headache? May I suggest an Arthurian approach, a.k.a the round table.

Kensai the wandering warrior

If the wrong people are put into positions of "power" (such a funny word to use), then yes it won't work. But the same goes for a round table, if the wrong people are at the table, it'll still be a mess.

If some sort of CoC doesn't exist, I have a hard time believing this game will fill it's full potential. If it's just an "every group for themselves" mentality, I can't envision how in the world there will be any cohesion and effectiveness of the house. Instead of a spearheaded attack with a purpose, it'll be a bunch of a freelancing groups trying to "get theirs".

Again, the CoC doesn't need a prince, a master, a president, or whatever...it needs infrastructure to communicate and plan attacks and defenses. But someone, or someones (eek!), will rise to the top and help organize it, whether the game supports it or not. Will every unit and pilot cooperate? Of course not, but that's been the case in every game of this magnitude. People can play, or not play in this case, however they choose. It's their account. But the CoCesque idea will happen one way or the other on some scale, large or small. It's a logistical, and for a lot of us, roleplaying advantage IMHO.

Edit: And again, I have zero interest in any involvement at all in a CoC. But that doesn't change my opinion on the matter that it can only help enhance our effectiveness and experience in the game.

Edited by Tha DoggFather, 05 April 2012 - 05:27 AM.

[Meneiupptus]

Az, remember I don't speak for the Old Guard or the New Guard or for House Davion... I speak for me. You got my respect because you actually care about House Davion and its pilots and you don't want them misused. I can understand that and get behind it. If I see it happening I will say something... trust me. I have been outspoken before.

Pappy's a good guy and I hope to speak to him the next time there is a meet and greet. I got 3-4 players coming with me and we plan to start a lance since we won't be able to join a game unit... not that I can remember the old unit Lt.Gen. Zombie had. We won't be making ranks until we recruit some and move towards full company.but I won't be the CO. Thats Siruppems. We will be keeping in touch with Pappy because right now he has the closest thing to a CoC that Davion has going.

A round table leadership is a great idea. At least until the number of guilds becomes prohibitive to do it. We can burn that bridge when we come to it though