589 replies to this topic

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Personally, I prefer it this way.
Nothing ruins a day more than having to hear some berk telling me what to do, or, even worse, insult me.
If I want some **** to insult me, I'd join 4chan or some such.

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And besides that, dedicated VOIP programs like Ventrillo or TeamSpeak almost always perform better then anything a developer can put in thier game.

Mumble.

[CeeKay Boques]

Karyudo-ds, on 05 April 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Yes and no. I mean if I want to play with a friend or two, yeah we'll set up VOIP. Though I think it's rather old school to rely on an external program for it (though I guess that's great if the game crashes). .

It's not old school, in fact if you have group that plays more than one game together, it makes a bazillion pounds of sense. If you only have game in your life and no "guild/Clan/Squad", sure VOIP is the way to go, why install anything else.

[Orzorn]

Volthorne, on 05 April 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

If you've played the original Dota (which was an unbalanced piece of junk) you'll understand my hostility towards Dota 2. I was planning on trying it at somepoint to see if Valve rebalanced it or if it's still unbalanced as hell.

Depends on what Dota you mean. Icefrog's Dota? Guinsoo's dota? How long ago was it that you played Dota? I've been playing Dota since 2005.

Dota is probably the most balanced game I've ever played. I could type a book about it, but my brother and I have had so many dicussions at length about balance (both for League, which is extremely unbalanced for reasons that I really don't want to discuss for the billionth time, and for Dota).

More on topic:
I understand what you mean about teams not having to communicate. I've played several "silent pro" games where everybody does exactly what they need to do when they need to do it. That is extremely rare, and even so, a real fair match up practically requires that someone say something. Dota is a complex game, and topics often brought up in-game are where to ward, when to buy dust, when to buy a gem, what items to get, when to gank, mias, if you're losing your lane, and basically any other possible discussion that could be had about the game. I greatly enjoy being able to know what my mates are up to and to let them know what I'm up to and what's on my mind so we can put forth our best efforts.

Edited by Orzorn, 05 April 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Morang]

FallguySoldier, on 05 April 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

I was just implying the fact that no one's going to quote-on-quote "roleplay" their role as a MechWarrior. Mostly everyone's going to just go in there and talk normally about random stuff, instead of actually being focused on the missions at hand.

Well, I have no experience of playing MMO RPG, where the gameplay is not solely focused on combat. But in combat-oriented games you will hardly have spare time and attention to talk much "about random stuff". If somebody does... mute him.

TS may be good for games like IL-2 Sturmovik or ArmA, where the servers are held by third parties and often have TS server associated with game server, so random players may easily find and join TS. And still ArmA have decent in-game VOIP, which I always use (in Warfare and PR) w/o any use of TS.

But for MMO with developer-controlled server this is not the case. In-game VOIP is the best possibility for players who are not members of the stable teams/clans etc to catch up quickly and to integrate "on the fly".

[Orzorn]

Technoviking, on 05 April 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Who's "we"? Sounds like friends you know. Sure they're pubbies? If they are, do you have 100% participation in the VOIP?

We is my brother and his friend. Sometimes he also brings another friend.

Usually, there is almost always at least one other player besides us who is also using voice chat.

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Are you going to be ok only having one or two people join you in VOIP or will that be frustrating for a player of your caliber?

No sure if you're attempting to snub me or not with "player of your caliber", so forgive me if I take that wrong.

Anyways, as I said, in basically any match you're very likely to get AT LEAST one other player using voice chat. Its not uncommon to have, at least when its my team of 4 with one pub, all 5 of us using voice chat. even when its just me, I usually get two others using it. Some folks are bound to not use it because they're not talkative, they don't have a mic, or they aren't very good team players (these folks, however, usually say nothing at all, not even in text chat).

[Felicitatem Parco]

One reason I used to play a bunch of Xbox Live games with my friends was the communication aspect. We had in-game VoIP all the time. If not for Xbox Live VoIP, I would not have played as often, perhaps 1/3 as oftwn. That means spending 1/3 the money on games.

Same applies here.

[Redburn]

You folks do know that Teamspeak has a default server that you can create a connection to, create a room, etc, etc.... FOR NO COST... That would be great for PUG matches.... Right? You create a connection to "voice.teamspeak.com" with default settings, create a room, then text it into the game for teammates on the/a team channel. Preconfigured, it only takes seconds to initiate and you're good to go. There's absolutely no reason for TS usage to cost anyone. Hundreds of PUG users are in there all the time, day/night. For this reason, I don't see any roadblocks to VOIP for the masses..... If PGI later decides add VOIP that's great, but a VOIP solution that's this easy is hardly a reason to demand in-game VOIP as the only satisfying solution.

Edited by Redburn, 05 April 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[FinnMcKool]

I would like it, but.......
They say they are working on it for later and they have other stuff to do first.

thats cool dont hold up the game on account of this we can wait for talk , just get

the game going.

[That Guy]

I am going to say I am pro-well-implemented VOIP in MWO. I hate having to use a 3rd party application for comms. i friggin hate it. If PGI decides to add in VOIP down the road, then they need to do it well. go all in or dont bother.

Something that needs to be in MWO voip is channels. having 12 people on s single channel is utter madness. channels need to be broken down into Lance radio Channels, and Command (only the CO commander and lance commanders can hear it), and maybe a group channel.

[Orzorn]

Redburn, on 05 April 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

You folks do know that Teamspeak has a default server that you can create a connection to, create a room, etc, etc.... FOR NO COST... That would be great for PUG matches.... Right? You create a connection to "voice.teamspeak.com" with default settings, create a room, then text it into the game for teammates on the/a team channel. Preconfigured, it only takes seconds to initiate and you're good to go. There's absolutely no reason for TS usage to cost anyone. Hundreds of PUG users are in there all the time, day/night. For this reason, I don't see any roadblocks to VOIP for the masses..... If PGI later decides add VOIP that's great, but a VOIP solution that's this easy is hardly a reason to demand in-game VOIP as the only satisfying solution.

Okay. Now all we have to do is get random pubs from all around the world to have a specific third party program, bother to alt tab out of the game, open the program, and alt tab in and out of the game several times to type in your information, then find the channel.

[CeeKay Boques]

Orzorn, on 05 April 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

We is my brother and his friend. Sometimes he also brings another friend.

Usually, there is almost always at least one other player besides us who is also using voice chat.


No sure if you're attempting to snub me or not with "player of your caliber", so forgive me if I take that wrong.

No, just saying a player who cares, deeply about winning. One who might get frustrated with a lack of cohesion or lack of interest in tactics, as might be dispalyed by the other 11 players. Not a snub. Where as someone who just like Mechs and explosions might not have expecations.

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Anyways, as I said, in basically any match you're very likely to get AT LEAST one other player using voice chat. Its not uncommon to have, at least when its my team of 4 with one pub, all 5 of us using voice chat. even when its just me, I usually get two others using it. Some folks are bound to not use it because they're not talkative, they don't have a mic, or they aren't very good team players (these folks, however, usually say nothing at all, not even in text chat).

Ah, so Dota is not a 12 v 12 but 3 or 4 v 4 at max. Yes, you might have a higher chance of participation then. I'm saying that in a random match with 22 other players, my bet, (based of TF2) is you will again, have you and your buddy and 1 other guy on comms. 3/12 is different than 3/4.

[Nick Makiaveli]

**EDIT**FTR apparently a lot was posted while I put together my post, so the below is before I read all the dev posts etc....

DarkTreader, on 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Eh, I think they are looking at it from a logical point of view - why waste time developing something internally that is being done more efficiently by a third-party group? Now, something like a TS overlay might work well, or similar to how the NGNG website has... but the case still remains: if they were able to do something as cool as frag your comms due to damage or interference, no one would use them because they'd have an external TS/Vent/Mumble client running.

I say good design call.

As far as lone wolf/pubbies/etc... go, you pull them into your TS channel, or have a public one set up to use. If they don't have it, their loss. I can think of plenty of games where, if you're not on voice, you don't play with that group - if it's on and they can hear, but can't respond for one reason or another, that's fine.

I just think that it'd be a waste of PGI's time to try and shoehorn this in at this point in the design process. Feature creep is a PITA, and keeping that down as much as possible is a GOOD THING™

Good points, so how about adding it later?

Technoviking, on 05 April 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

World of Warcraft, a giant of a game had VOIP, they developed it, polished it and submitted it.

Nobody used it.

Gaming guilds USUALLY do more than just play one game, or they have "Pregame" meetings, Post game meetings... Private meetings...

All of these things usually point to a 3rd Party vendor for Comms.


The only people who would use VOIP are the unaffiliated new people, who would either be:

A. Too Casual to use
B. Too Shy to use
C. Not shy at all and talkative and annoying and make funny sounds or yell or *Click*

Waste of resources.

Apples and oranges. You are talking about large, organized raids where the majority, if not all, the players are members of the guild or an allied guild. Here you are talking about having a LW who could easily never have heard of Mumble and would take an hour to install it and still not get it configured right. Do you wait for him? Kick him and possibly lose a player for MWO?

As to the idiots, then join a unit that has a dedicated server and turn off the in-game VOIP. Problem solved. It's still there for the newbies/etc, but doesn't cause you any grief.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 05 April 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Archtus]

I'm going to come out and say it:

In a game of this caliber, where communication is key to survival(let alone winning), a lack of in game VoIP for PUBs and PUGs is a dealbreaker for me. Sure, we can start developing in game short hand, but why do that? "Hang on guys, I have to stop scouting and remote tagging this Atlas for our PUB, who just happens to be our main indirect fire support." Type>FS: I haz beacon. Fire! ,,, 'Now, to get that tag'beacon back in place before he fires, so it's not a wasted salvo....'

Seriously, a game like this, a lack of in game VoIP IS a dealbreaker for me.

Edited by Archtus, 05 April 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm not surprised VOIP isn't included. It just becomes another thing for the GMs to police, and most serous players will be planning their own vent or teamspeak servers anyway. Also, it sounds like the in-game information warfare tools are going to be pretty comprehensive, so lacking VOIP may not be that great of a hinderance.

[Garth Erlam]

OOC, Archtus, in PUG games you've played - how often are strategies discussed, and then put into practice?

(In my experience it tends to be a text chat message saying: ASSAULT LEFT MED HEAVY MID LIGHT RIGHT GO.)

[SquareSphere]

Not a mistake, vast majority of folks use 3rd voip software just fine for org games. For Pub games ingame VOIP is just full trolls and a holes to abuse. Leaving it out is a great idea and frees up resources they can focus on something else.

[Orzorn]

Technoviking, on 05 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

No, just saying a player who cares, deeply about winning. One who might get frustrated with a lack of cohesion or lack of interest in tactics, as might be dispalyed by the other 11 players. Not a snub. Where as someone who just like Mechs and explosions might not have expecations.

Okay, yeah, then you're spot on. I do care about winning. Why? Because I don't get a lot of free time these days, and so I don't play these games to sit there for an hour, get destroyed, and lose. I want to play a fun, engaging, CHALLENGING game, not some rollover death fest. It really rustles my jimmies to lose games because of childish players who refuse to communicate or want to troll.

Thanks for clarifying, by the way.

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Ah, so Dota is not a 12 v 12 but 3 or 4 v 4 at max. Yes, you might have a higher chance of participation then. I'm saying that in a random match with 22 other players, my bet, (based of TF2) is you will again, have you and your buddy and 1 other guy on comms. 3/12 is different than 3/4.

Close, Dota is 5v5.

But I do see the point about team size. In addition, having 12 people on comms might be...crazy. Still, having played Team Fortress 2 rather competitively for a while (it was fun fighting the developers from Bethesda! Most people can't say they've done that), I can say that even just a few people using voice chat on a team of 12 helps a ton.

And, yes, I'll come out and say it. Voice chat helps to give orders. I'll also say this: Pubs are generally directionless forces. They will do whatever comes to mind, but rarely does that actually help the team. They'll die for rather ridiculous reasons if you leave them to their own devices. Being able to talk to these people (at least I think their people. I could swear some of them are rocks or maybe lab monkeys) really helps keep everybody together working towards the same goal. Having played games like LoL and Dota for many years, I can safely say that, in a game full of pubs, if no one gets up and takes lead, you are seriously twice as likely to lose the game. Besides, if you don't like me giving orders. (I say "orders" lightly. My brother and I have trained ourselves to talk to people certain ways so we won't make them mad, and so that we sound helpful, but that we also give a good reason to listen to what we say. We also practice team moral raising. When a pub gets a kill, for instance, we always make sure to congratulate them on good play. Keeping people in good spirits seriously helps the team to play better.), put me on ignore or mute me.

[Archtus]

@Garth: From DDO, where my most experience comes from. Pretty much every run, with the occasional(<6% overall) player that doesn't listen/has VoIP disabled/Does his own thing. As expansive of maps as y'all seem to be doing[possibly too much speculation on the forum's part], there is going to be plenty of chance for the players who run light/scouts to fan out and call back with a target acquisition. If I have to worry about stopping to type, having little to no response time in case I am spotted, just to say: "T Atlas F4" or "T CTPLT Z2", and then get moving again. It's a lot when I can just hold 'F' and say "Got an Atlas" or "Catapult Spotted", while at the same time being able to keep moving, or pull the 'Mech into a trap that is now forming behind me over comms.

Then again, that's my take. If we're looking at open fields with a few hills, then why bother? I'm expecting[speculating] an urban map where you can have four or five full on fights going on at once, or a nice forested area, or multi level map.

For DDO Players: Go do a run of Chronos. As soon as you get in, kill your speakers, disable voip, and hide your chat log. Have fun.

Edited by Archtus, 05 April 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Orzorn]

Archtus, on 05 April 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

For DDO Players: Go do a run of Chronos. As soon as you get in, kill your speakers, disable voip, and hide your chat log. Have fun.

Haha. The other day when I was playing Dota, my computer had some bug and it turned the master volume all the way down after we unpaused the game from a person disconnecting. For there rest of the match, I had to play without any sound or voice chat. It's like playing in a sensory deprivation chamber. You feel very alone.

And, if I may pitch in to Garth as well, I'd say almost every game of Dota that I play we discuss tactics and strategy. You pretty much HAVE to. Do we push top, bot, or mid? Do we buy smoke and gank in the forest? Do we need wards, and if so, where? What heroes do we pick? What lanes do we go to? When to gank, when to defend, when to pop the rune, when to go in, etc etc etc. It goes on and on. Anything and everything that can be said has been said. It's not like Xbox live or something where people spout random crap. People use the chat for what its meant to be used: team communication.

Edited by Orzorn, 05 April 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Call me old school, but I'm a text-chat-user, so I wont miss any ingame-VOIP.