57 replies to this topic

[Viral Matrix]

Hey all, i recently outfitted a raven 3L with Tag, Narc, Beagle, range Module, UAV and a fast XL engine. Basically i run behind the enemy, hit as many as possible with a Narc and Tag a target, I save my UAV for when the main forces collide. If i play this style 'correctly', i get less than 100 damage with my two MLs. I just dont shoot much, im the team's eyes, not it's guns. When im scouting, most of the enemy team is on radar. But my team still manages to lose A LOT.

My PUG teamamtes arent shooting at the Narc'd targets, hell, it doesnt seem they see them on their maps from the way they just get taken out, stumbling around stupidly. Is there something about Narc targeting data that i dont understand? Should i just go back to my Atlas? Do more basecap shenanigans? Im at a loss to understand why my intel is so very, very useless in determining the outcome of the match.

What am i doing wrong, and how should i adjust to PUG stupidity?

[DLFReporter]

I noticed that communicating your role as scout does help a lot. I also see some people calling out their LRM boats, so you could try and work together with one of those. Now I know this happens not as often, but a way to adapt to this would be to get rid of the Narc. Throw in a SRM and you'll do better.
As for the rest of the team playing dufus... well that is PUrGatory. ^^

[Hex Pallett]

Quick answer to the title: NO. Big, f'n, NO. Especially in Conquest.

But, here's the thing. 3L, or any other Raven, is simply not a good scout. They're huge for a Light and lacks the agility of a Jenner or a Spider.

Besides, it's your loadout. Let's face it: there's a lot going on in a MWO match - torso twisting, maneuvering, missile-dodging, all these sh*t. And lots of puggers, being either aged or too young and stup*d, can't handle that much thing at the same time. Therefore, unless you have some crazy-talent in your team, don't expect much from a pure-EW loadout. Get yourself a LL and a pair of SSRM, do your job, point out where the enemies are heading, and hunt some Lights.

[Dragoon20005]

NARC works best with a fellow LRM boat

but in PUG match, nope

UAV is a waste in PUG matches

just have to get the msg about enemy whereabouts out via the in game type chat

2 ML and 2 SSRM along with TAG/BAP/ECM will do the trick

RVN-3L

the above is the tried and tested build

target hunting and still good for hunting jenners/spiders

Edited by Dragoon20005, 30 July 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

You are a spotter dropping, hoping for a lrm boat in a pug. Big risk, even if you get an lrm boat he might be crap. Spotters are really not for pugs, need to know you have a reliable lrm backing you up.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Spotters are not a waste.

Spotters who get too far from main element, get committed into combat and die early are a waste.

If there's one thing I wish I could get PUG lights to quit doing it is for them to stop running pell-mell into the enemy main body or getting attacked by a wolfpack of lights and overwhelmed. Scouting isn't simply running to a point on a map until your radar picks someone up. It takes some skill, patience etc.

I loooove good scouts. No reason to get committed into a furball, even with other lights...just find em, let us fix them and then we all finish them.

[Viral Matrix]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was so hoping this pure scout build would be more effective. It seems as soon as i load up a brawler mech i get matched with a team of LRM boats and snipers, who complain about not getting targets.

Im running a Raven, not cuz its the best light ecm mech, but because i usually play heavy class mechs and up, so the Raven class is the only one i have elite. But yea, ECM and JJ would be optimal for running around fightin through crowds.

If a PUG scout is just a fast damage dealer, i think ill go back to my Assualts. I have much more experience fighting in those. And since im playing on a laptop, using a fast attack mech is really too taxing on my system.

Edited by Viral Matrix, 30 July 2013 - 11:24 PM.

[Evil Ed]

With that build you need a well composed team to support, not a group of PUGs. I suggest you get rid of the NARC and free up some weight for an ERPPC. Position yourself far behind enemy. Then you can provide locks, deactivate ECMs and do some backstabbing. Great fun.

Did you play yesterday? I had a few games on frozen city and tourmaline where some guy did great NARC-work. I was in a Awesome LRM-boat.

[Johnny Reb]

Lrm boats that complain are not good lrm boats.

edit: good/decent lrm boats rely on themselves, scouting is a plus.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 30 July 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[Viral Matrix]

Lukoi, on 30 July 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Spotters are not a waste.

Spotters who get too far from main element, get committed into combat and die early are a waste.

If there's one thing I wish I could get PUG lights to quit doing it is for them to stop running pell-mell into the enemy main body or getting attacked by a wolfpack of lights and overwhelmed. Scouting isn't simply running to a point on a map until your radar picks someone up. It takes some skill, patience etc.

I loooove good scouts. No reason to get committed into a furball, even with other lights...just find em, let us fix them and then we all finish them.

Its not that i die quickly, with ECM, i can run around until the end of the match, especially if i dont do a lot of shooting. Its that the intel i put up while running around isnt being used by my team. Like i said, if im scouting, most of the enemy team is gonna be on radar. Someone suggested that i only use the 'pure' scout build in premades, i think that may be the only answer. But premade vs PUG is unfun babykicking to me, just like in any other pvp game where its allowed.

I was really wondering(which may have gotten lost in all my whining about teammates), if i didnt understand how Narc works. I get that ECM blocks it, but otherwise it should be showing up on my team's radar and targetable even without me providing LOS. It should also give targeting and accuracy bonuses. Have i misunderstood how it works? Same with UAV, without the targeting and acc bonuses, of course.

Edited by Viral Matrix, 30 July 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Viral Matrix]

Evil Ed, on 30 July 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Did you play yesterday? I had a few games on frozen city and tourmaline where some guy did great NARC-work. I was in a Awesome LRM-boat.

Yea i played yesterday. Not too seem too full of myself, but my scouting was the best scouting ive ever seen. Until i tried it, i had no idea how easy it was to light up the entire enemy team, through various means. Ive never seen that kind of blanket coverage coming from any other scout.

Im just shocked at how useless to my team that intel was.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Viral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Its not that i die quickly, with ECM, i can run around until the end of the match, especially if i dont do a lot of shooting. Its that the intel i put up while running around isnt being used by my team.

Viral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Im just shocked at how useless to my team that intel was.

You can lead the horses to water but you cannot make them drink.

Good teammates will utilize the information you provide. Bad ones will focus on their KDR's or chasing squirrels regardless of the info you send up. You cannot do much about the latter, but I assure you the former appreciate the efforts in terms of info, spotting, targeting, TAG/NARC etc.

[MonkeyCheese]

Johnny Reb, on 30 July 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Lrm boats that complain are not good lrm boats.

edit: good/decent lrm boats rely on themselves, scouting is a plus.

This

Any serious LRM boat will have their own tag for ecm and will know how to work with their range,

To add my input

Keep the UAV and try to upgrade it when possible, but narc is pointless and rarely seen in any of my pug matches, also I have found that having a long range weapon on that scout such as an ERPPC or ERLL or an LRM 5/10 is a good way to do some damage and distract at range if you are trying not to engage anyone head on, sure there are the brawler light builds but I do enjoy a bit of hit and run or stab from long range

Causing chaos is always fun and can help your slow team mates.

My light/scout builds for example
jenner D - 4ml, lrm10 2tons ammo
deathsknell - erLL, 3 smallpulse
spider d -ecm erLL, 2ml
spider k (my one true 100% scout/never engage) 1ac2 3 tons ammo, 1ml
raven 4x - 1ac2 3 tons ammo, 1ssrm 1 ton ammo, 2ml
raven 3L - ecm, lrm10 2 tons ammo, 3ml, ssrm 1 ton ammo

[xengk]

I play PUG scout in my Cicada sometime.
The most important thing is communication.

If you are scouting, declare it to your team as soon as the match starts.
Ask for any LRM present in the team if you see stalker or catapult.
If there are 2 or more, tell them you will be tagging and watch out for UAV drop.
Announce your UAV drop to your team before launching it, so they can be prepare to fire.

If there is only 1 or less mech with LRM, don't risk your neck tagging the enemy, no LRM are coming.
Instead eyeball spot the enemy's movement, call out enemy loner to the team, while avoid fighting enemy mech.

When the main fighting started, only then join in and drive-by-shooting any mechs you can or chase enemy light that is doing the same.
Watch out for friendly loner and be ready to go to his assistance if you see his blue arrow is spinning on the minimap. (he is being harass by enemy light)

If you are packing ECM and enemy have LRMboats, stick close to your team and provide ECM cover for them.

[Kiiyor]

Scouts are FAAAAR from useless in pugs.

(Good) Scouts are hunters, opportunists, thinkers, gatherers of both information and the ears of foolish lone enemies. As a scout, you have the unique ability to somewhat control the herd and govern its otherwise cowardly instincts.

If you point out the enemy advance (with this killer key combo: R+R+R+R+R+R+R+R+R+R), you can passively organize a re-consolidation of your own forces to meet the threat, without typing a word.

If you notice your team is strung out, blundering single file towards theta and certain doom, you can skirmish with the enemy, strafing across their line of advance (and gathering information!), possibly forcing them to deploy while the rest of your group MOOOOS their way into some semblance of formation.

If you leap over a ridge or even carry out the incredibly dangerous task of walking around an un-scouted corner, you can let your team know that yes, it is safe to engage, or you can explode spectacularly and still relay them information.

If you encounter a lone enemy, you can convey this information to the rest of the group by blasting it to smithereens. Even running away in terror can be considered scouting; If the rest of your lance watches your %s fleeing your name whilst your triangle frantically squiggely-weaves its way back towards the herd, they can assume there are lots of enemies after a piece of your hide.

Not all communication in PUGS is verbal. The actions of a scout can speak louder than words.

[Caswallon]

Viral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Yea i played yesterday. Not too seem too full of myself, but my scouting was the best scouting ive ever seen. Until i tried it, i had no idea how easy it was to light up the entire enemy team, through various means. Ive never seen that kind of blanket coverage coming from any other scout.

Im just shocked at how useless to my team that intel was.

Props to you for doing what "you should" as a light. But in a PUG I'd say, the Narc is a bit of Kit too far in your load out. I stopped using mine after a similar experience where by the time I had communicated the fact that their were Narc'd targets out there to my PUG the damn beacons had worn out...

Until you get a reg premade team with at least one heavy LRM boat to spot for try dropping the Narc for the biggest Missile launcher you can just to get that damage up a bit. Given your role maybe a LRM yourself so you can drop harassing fire at the enemies?

[Remarius]

I have to admit in a pug match I never bother with tag and narc as I prefer relaying target coordinates and carrying a payload (Jenner D with 4 ML and 2 SSRM 2, beagle, capture accelerator and advanced sensors). Some pugs react well and move together to meet/defend against the targets I spot others don't. Either way I usually do 400-500 pts damage and often cut out solo mechs (particularly LRM or sniper boats) so always feel like I contribute. You also have the option of camping their base and forcing some of them to leave their blob and come back or killing the lone defender on a capture point. Not doable effectively if you have no weapon payload.... particularly if you're the last mech alive! it also has to be said I am fairly religious about R'ing and with beagle/advanced sensors and the ability to engage/disengage at will any smart LRM'er will take advantage of your locks.

I feel more like my role in a Jenner is to force the other team to react rather than stick to their game plan.

[Evil Ed]

I use to run my 3L-scout with ERPPC and 2ML. From far behind enemy lines I use ERPPC to take out enemy ECM and the 2ML provides extra punch when I get jumped by other lights or when I dare to move closer to enemy line (generally when my team do a push). When playing with premade I might replace ML with TAG. Loadout might have to be adapt depending on current meta, maybe replacing 2ML and the extra DHS with an LRM5 to give the enemies a constant missile warning and something to spend the AMS ammo on.
One the large maps I generally flank right away, on the smaller ones I wait a bit an see what happens, and then move to a good spotting/sniping position.

[Darwins Dog]

The biggest thing is to communicate directly with the team. Tell them that you are scouting and what general area (left side, near b6, G line, etc.), then tell them that you have TAG and/or NARC and to focus on marked targets. Then report as much as you can about enemy positions and movements (5 big mechs headed to G9, looks like 4 snipers, watch for base cappers, etc.). After that make sure that you mark targets that the team can engage. On the bigger maps there is a tenancy for some scouts to TAG targets that are too far away for missiles, or that are behind too much cover.

NARC may be too much investment unless you know you have LRM support. UAV is great if you can get it in the right position, but may not be helpful in most games. TAG is nice because it is so little investment.

The other thing to try is to jump on to a public TS server and communicate your information directly to (some of) your teammates.

[ApolloKaras]

Dragoon20005, on 30 July 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

NARC works best with a fellow LRM boat

but in PUG match, nope

UAV is a waste in PUG matches

just have to get the msg about enemy whereabouts out via the in game type chat

2 ML and 2 SSRM along with TAG/BAP/ECM will do the trick

RVN-3L

the above is the tried and tested build

target hunting and still good for hunting jenners/spiders

This.

I normally run this 2 ML and 2 SSRM 2's, however in 8 man drops unless for some reason we have LRMs, I'll go 3 ML and 2 SSRM2's. Outside of that the loadout is good.

The common misconception is that lights are useless. Scouts are the reason why there are so many "omg stop cap plox!!1" threads. Just go to Maps/modes there are quite a few epic ones there lol. Scout is the most difficult role on the battlefield. You are automatically over extended at the start of the battle, its how you manage that extension that will set yourself above the others. By extension I mean what you've already mentioned in your opening post, do I cap? Do I defend? Do I go back to cap, do I etc etc. If these are things going through your mind you already have the scout mindset and I applaud you for it. Normally the 'scouts' are running in just looking for a kill. However you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. You can show your teammates targets all day, but there are times where they will not even act on the intel and go into hulk smash mode and die lol. You are doing the right thing however.

My thought process normally goes like this: Where is the enemy and what is the composition (ie do they have a light?) vs your composition, This is info you alone can exploit. Where is the enemy going? After these 2 factors have been determined now the fun begins. Try to locate the enemy scout if they don't have a scout continue giving info, if the enemy definitely outweighs you hit their cap draw them back away from the battle lines. You don't have to cap it out just touch it and stand on it for a bit. Make sure you plan your egress route ahead of time before the enemy gets to you. Important - use the 100% throttle key as opposed to hitting and holding W. Your light can accelerate faster than just holding W . Priority should be given to info - unless your assaults are being harassed, you're being capped, or the enemy scout has left themselves alone and you can take them out.


TL:DR - You're doing well lol