105 replies to this topic

[Der Kopfsammler]

Yeah... Just like how it happens in World of Tanks.

[Adridos]

Der Kopfsammler, on 06 April 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yeah... Just like how it happens in World of Tanks.

[Snotling]

I myself dont play assault all that often.

But the problem I see: In every Mechwarriorgame i played before (2-4), taking assaults just was the best option if you wanted to win. Five Assaults crushed lighter mechs 19 out of 20 times. (If you dont do anything stupid like putting in only short range weapons, and under the assumption all pilots are equal or close in skill) They are just not that slow (i remember those 6largelaser, 88mph sunders..brrrr), and its hard to flank five mechs that play togehter.
So different leagues put in restrictions to balance things out (Fixed lances/stars in EBTl for example (1light, 2med, 1heavy, 1assault), or tonnage restrictions for the teams.
But restrictions like that dont work well with a decent matchmakingsystem.

So how will it be in MWO?

They could make them really expensive (kinda like the high tier tanks in wot, were you just cant afford to play them every game)
I think maps and objectives will be really important. If your slow speed doesnt punish you, we will see al lot more heavys than we want to.

[BerryChunks]

Not sure if serious...

the "upkeep" costs would have to be pretty prohibitive. I'm running through mechcommander again waiting for this game to come out, and some missions have 8 slot 300 ton limits. Thats obviously average of 37.5 tons, but using a mix of 25-55 ton mechs ends that scenario in defeat or heavily damaged and dead mech/pilots, whereas just dropping 1 atlas, madcat, catapult, and centurion cut the number of pilots in half and was a zero loss victory.

The reason? Apart from the fact that it actually makes dice roll tabletop rules to apply attacks and damage over the mechs between your pilots, It's a simple mathematical issue.

the devastator holds 48 tons of weaponry. The Centurion holds 18 tons. The jenner holds 6. What this means applied is that 95 tons of jenners is 18 tons of weaponry. 18 vs 48 is a laughable difference. The larger the mech is, the more efficiently tonnage/mech is converted into firepower.

Thats just the way it is.


Also, There has to be some status quo taxation that keeps people from holding onto 100 tonners for a long time, otherwise it'll end up like Eve Online.

Eve Online had grades up ship up to Battleship, and it was considered that battleships are the flagship of fleets, with one person to pilot them and everyone else in your corporation using cruisers and frigates, kind of like the concept of light-medium-heavy-assault in battletech.

The only problem is that ISK, the game currency, can be accumulated so rapidly and easily, that a 1 month character can get a battleship of their own with some good gaming. Now, they might not have the skills to fly it successfully, but essentially, everyone goes to battleship because its worth more to get the general battleship skills and buy it with its 8 guns than to specialize further into frigatry, because frigates have less guns and are 5 times more fragile.

So basically, the envisioned idea where everyone flew in smaller ships except for one person dedicated to flying the big ship where that more damage comes in handy vs cruisers, everyone flies battleships and theres a need for the next step up, the HAC or the dreadnaught. And then the next step is the Titans.

Without a proper money sink, without proper balancing of mechs abilities to each other (the weapons and equipment shouldn't get touched at all), the same thing will happen in this game. A server full of Steiner.

[BerryChunks]

Adridos, on 06 April 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

not to be rude, but an AI that has terrible aim is not a very skilled gamer with great aim. you'll notice how slowly that mad cat responded to turning, with little to no torso twist, the fastest way to aim 360 degrees to someone who ran behind you is throw it in reverse and turn and twist at the same time. Unless that aspect is heavily nerfed into the ground for larger mechs, a good player will be able to swing around like lightning.

You have also modded that mech out to run 160-170. Most mechs top out at 86 or 120something.

Time will tell.

Edited by BerryChunks, 06 April 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[RickDiasPK]

I'll drink to the general sentiments in this article. Everything has its place, but the bulk of the work is done by mediums and heavies. Definitely looking forward to future 'Mech announcements showing us a wider variety of units in those weight classes!

[Adridos]

BerryChunks, on 06 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

You have also modded that mech out to run 160-170. Most mechs top out at 86 or 120something.

Just to make sure. I didn't do that video.

It is pretty simple to find a MW videon of someone taking on assaults in lights both in SP and MP across all games.

[Solis Obscuri]

Titus Pullo XIII, on 05 April 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Are you baiting us?

In retrospect, that part does read pretty suggestively...

[eZZip]

Adridos, on 06 April 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

It is pretty simple to find a MW videon of someone taking on assaults in lights both in SP and MP across all games.

Finding a few exceptions doesn't make it the rule. Besides, you can circlestrafe one guy, but once one of his teammates shows up, circlestrafing is no longer possible without taking hits.

[BerryChunks]

With regard to any possible upkeep costs..


the cost of replacing medium mechs over and over is far greater than the cost of replacing assault mech armor over and over. If one side is trying to win a battle on efficiency of upkeep costs, that would yield to the group sporting all assault killing groups of anything less.

[Goldhawk]

When the clans come, it's better to be in a machine that can run vs a machine that can't run, or shoot those dirty clanners at their "Extended ranges" Remember soldiers, their weapons are not more powerful then ours, they can just hit at longer ranges. Remember, Talons out! If you must die, take someone with you.

[Goldhawk]

BerryChunks, on 06 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

not to be rude, but an AI that has terrible aim is not a very skilled gamer with great aim. you'll notice how slowly that mad cat responded to turning, with little to no torso twist, the fastest way to aim 360 degrees to someone who ran behind you is throw it in reverse and turn and twist at the same time. Unless that aspect is heavily nerfed into the ground for larger mechs, a good player will be able to swing around like lightning.

You have also modded that mech out to run 160-170. Most mechs top out at 86 or 120something.

Time will tell.

Also with the tech at the time, the smallest mech to mount a PPC was the Panther. I'm going to guess, Ferrofiberous armor with an XL engine. WRONG-O! Didn't exist until about 3-5 years past 3050. Also, you better be enrolled in a top-notch unit, otherwise, you're not getting that new tech.

[Belial]

BerryChunks, on 06 April 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

not to be rude, but an AI that has terrible aim is not a very skilled gamer with great aim. you'll notice how slowly that mad cat responded to turning, with little to no torso twist, the fastest way to aim 360 degrees to someone who ran behind you is throw it in reverse and turn and twist at the same time. Unless that aspect is heavily nerfed into the ground for larger mechs, a good player will be able to swing around like lightning.

You have also modded that mech out to run 160-170. Most mechs top out at 86 or 120something.

Time will tell.

Gotta go with this here. Now, I have a similar tactic for dealing with assaults, but the first few attempts I make with my Jenner are going to end with me perishing in a fireball. And by the way, I don't think that's a mod. The Locust IIC came out from MekTek and I think they really did allow it an insane maximum speed.

[LordDeathStrike]

"Bigger Is Not Always Better"

definitely, not what she said!

Edited by LordDeathStrike, 06 April 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[Name140704]

Yeah, I'm still going to be bringing an Awesome. To save arguments I'll stand the Awesome still in flat terrain, fully exposed to fire support 'mechs, and I'll make sure I'm alone so the lights, mediums and heavies can run circles around me.

[Soviet Alex]

BerryChunks, on 06 April 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

With regard to any possible upkeep costs..

the cost of replacing medium mechs over and over is far greater than the cost of replacing assault mech armor over and over. If one side is trying to win a battle on efficiency of upkeep costs, that would yield to the group sporting all assault killing groups of anything less.

We've already been told by the devs that our mech will never be totally destroyed. It's pretty standard with this business model. Based on what they have already confirmed as being in the game, heavier mechs will cost more to use than lighter ones, without any kind of "tonnage tax".

[TrentTheWanderer]

Here we go, back to our Dragons and their respective autocannons.

Someday there will be a Med Mech I like enough to sidle down a category (Other than the Uziel?) XD

Edited by TrentTheWanderer, 07 April 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Gauss]

Adridos, on 05 April 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

You misunderstood it. The right example is a diference between a tank, which can be taken out by an RPG and bigger tank that has no problems with such a weapon.

I seem to remember an Atlas being taken down with a KBar knife... Marauders dying to satchel charges and bad falls. It's not ALWAYS the case that bigger is better. Just USUALLY the case.

[Archtus]

Archtus of the Scout Lance here. My trusty Raven is all I need.

"Speed, Surprise, and Violence of action." Recon Company

Edited by Archtus, 07 April 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[Lipase]

lol... big guns maybe? I'll take my 45's and 55's all day long, thanks...