60 replies to this topic

[Crazy Eight]

While I Do enjoy LRMs I fear they are becoming overly popular. I'm starting to enter matches where players sit back focus fire LRMs into the closest Battlemech they can see. Killing it with in seconds. I watched my team take down an Awesome in less than 10 seconds by doing this.

There must be a better way to defend yourself from LRMs. Otherwise whats stopping everyone from using a Catapult and blocking out the sun with a cloud of missiles?

I may not be a game DEV but I do know my fellow gamers. Once they find something they can exploit they will do so, and do so Maliciously...

[EtherDragon]

Missile spam has a counter...

Don't position yourself to be subject to the spam - and put on AMS for the times when you need to slip from cover to cover.

However, I agree that the missile rain is pretty gross - and the effort needed to avoid it, is much higher than the effort needed to deploy it.

Right now the game is - mount an AMS and stay in cover, or die quickly from concentrated LRM fire. Hope that when you go toe to toe with another Mech, that you can do so in a place where the LRMs can't shoot at you. No other single weapon system can boast the ability to fundamentally change how your enemies behave.

[Tiger 6]

Most of the LRM fire is coming from trial mechs, they carry limited ammo so best to take cover and let them spam away

[Darwins Dog]

As above, AMS and positioning are the counters. There are lots of LRMs because the trial mechs have them, and they are easy to use. The trials don't have enough ammo for sustained battles, so I see a lot of matches where the missile boats get 3-4 kills right away, but then get rolled because they have nothing left.

Get to know the maps. Find the safe paths, and get right in close to them. An LRM mech can only cry when you get to under 180m.

Give it a few weeks for people to get past the learning curve, and they won't seem so bad.

[Crazy Eight]

EtherDragon, on 31 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Missile spam has a counter...

Don't position yourself to be subject to the spam - and put on AMS for the times when you need to slip from cover to cover.

However, I agree that the missile rain is pretty gross - and the effort needed to avoid it, is much higher than the effort needed to deploy it.

Right now the game is - mount an AMS and stay in cover, or die quickly from concentrated LRM fire. Hope that when you go toe to toe with another Mech, that you can do so in a place where the LRMs can't shoot at you. No other single weapon system can boast the ability to fundamentally change how your enemies behave.

The problem with "Don't position yourself to be subject to the spam" Is that sometimes you have no option. Caustic Valley Has very little cover except for the few large rocks scattered here and there. Cover is obviously the best way to get out of the rain. but there isn't always cover. At the very least when the devs make new maps they can look into increasing cover.

[Flapdrol]

Some buildings and rocks stop all lrm's. unfortunately they go straight through other buildings.

[Col Forbin]

Maybe they plan to have Guardian ECM kill lock somehow? If I was in charge, I would either:

drastically increase LRM ammo costs. I mean, they should be magnitudes more expensive that ballistic ammo.

drastically reduce the hit rate unless Tag or Narc are applied, as in make it not worth firing
with Artemis allowing reduced range, direct line of sight volleys (LOS from the actual missile boat)

[Solis Obscuri]

On the bright side, n00bs are learnign to focus fire...

[Col Forbin]

Tiger 6, on 31 October 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Most of the LRM fire is coming from trial mechs, they carry limited ammo so best to take cover and let them spam away

I would say that I can ignore that safely.... The issue is with a coordinated team with like 2 scouts and 6 missile boats just RAINING LRMs...

[Bilbo]

Crazy Eight, on 31 October 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

The problem with "Don't position yourself to be subject to the spam" Is that sometimes you have no option. Caustic Valley Has very little cover except for the few large rocks scattered here and there. Cover is obviously the best way to get out of the rain. but there isn't always cover. At the very least when the devs make new maps they can look into increasing cover.

Once you have determined where they are sitting, there is a good bit of cover to be had. The valley to the right of the factory starting point and the ridge and hills to the other side of the caldera. Determine which gets you closer to their position and flank them. Once you are up close its easy pickings.

[Blackfire1]

There are:

-Soft counters-
* AMS
* Piloting/Positioning
* Torso mitigation
* Light Cover
* Speed

-Hard Counters-
* Getting closer then 200m.
* ECM (THIS IS THE BIG ONE)
* Proper cover for incoming fire.

Possible Later Updates
*PPC discharge forcing loss of lock

Just wait. You'll be happy with ECM.

[Col Forbin]

Also, running behind something (just to get out of direct line of sight laser and ballistics fire) then POWERING DOWN, is the most effective tactic I know of to avoid the rain.

[Col Forbin]

Blackfire1, on 31 October 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

There are:

-Soft counters-
* AMS
* Piloting/Positioning
* Torso mitigation
* Light Cover
* Speed

-Hard Counters-
* Getting closer then 200m.
* ECM (THIS IS THE BIG ONE)
* Proper cover for incoming fire.

Possible Later Updates
*PPC discharge forcing loss of lock

Just wait. You'll be happy with ECM.

According to the Battletech Wiki, ECM will have no effect on standard LRM lock:

Description

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.^[3]
The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.^[2]
The Clans used the Guardian as the basis for their own ECM Suite, which is lighter and more compact than the Inner Sphere model but functions identically. The Draconis Combine used the Guardian as the basis for their experimental Angel ECM Suite.^[4]

[Crazy Eight]

Ha! My friend just called is a "Death rainbow" Because its an endless stream of missiles that arc to a battlemech.

Blackfire1, on 31 October 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

There are:

-Soft counters-
* AMS
* Piloting/Positioning
* Torso mitigation
* Light Cover
* Speed

-Hard Counters-
* Getting closer then 200m.
* ECM (THIS IS THE BIG ONE)
* Proper cover for incoming fire.

Possible Later Updates
*PPC discharge forcing loss of lock

Just wait. You'll be happy with ECM.

Good advice.

[Crazy Eight]

Bilbo, on 31 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Once you have determined where they are sitting, there is a good bit of cover to be had. The valley to the right of the factory starting point and the ridge and hills to the other side of the caldera. Determine which gets you closer to their position and flank them. Once you are up close its easy pickings.

I never thought of that. It seemed to me that the missiles would Arc over the hills. ALSO Love the "death's hand brigade" quote.

[Gideon Hawk]

Col Forbin, on 31 October 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Also, running behind something (just to get out of direct line of sight laser and ballistics fire) then POWERING DOWN, is the most effective tactic I know of to avoid the rain.

Does this really work after they have a lock? Or even when you see the a volley already heading in your direction? Breaking LOS does seem to work but does the radar lock drop as soon as you power down your mech? I've often thought the lock lingers a second or two even after powering down.

[hessian]

The problem as stands currently is mostly that it is way to easy to get a lock for LRMs. They need to change them so you cannot lock onto other peoples targeting systems and instead require narc beacons or tags for indirect fire. LRMs are just a mindless spam weapon at the moment and are excessively effective in mass because of it.

SRMs also suffer from some of the same problems when used in large numbers. Huge amount of damage that is practically unavoidable and requires absolutely no skill to use effectively.

Edited by hessian, 31 October 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Crazy Eight]

Solis Obscuri, on 31 October 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

On the bright side, n00bs are learnign to focus fire...

True. And I know the value of cover. Wish I could say the same for my team mates. To often do I see a Jenner run Alone into a group of enemies without maneuvering to avoid fire, or a Hunchback who decides the best way to stop a missile storm is to catch the missiles with his teeth.

[Col Forbin]

Gideon Hawk, on 31 October 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Does this really work after they have a lock? Or even when you see the a volley already heading in your direction? Breaking LOS does seem to work but does the radar lock drop as soon as you power down your mech? I've often thought the lock lingers a second or two even after powering down.

From what I can tell after my "AH HAH!" moment last night, yes. They will come down around you if you had some most of the way to you, but very spread out. Kind of like if you lose Tag lock at the last second you can see the missiles spread out.... I will test more tonight, and post my thought.

[hessian]

Crazy Eight, on 31 October 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

True. And I know the value of cover. Wish I could say the same for my team mates. To often do I see a Jenner run Alone into a group of enemies without maneuvering to avoid fire, or a Hunchback who decides the best way to stop a missile storm is to catch the missiles with his teeth.

What do you expect a hunchback to do when it runs around at the speed of smell.

Edited by hessian, 31 October 2012 - 11:55 AM.