127 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

It's becoming increasingly common as people catch on to how HORRIBLE the net code is to see teams fielded of 4 or more lights. At first 4 was a lot, but now if their team DOESN'T have 4 jenners circle strafing us it's a rarity.

Even mechs like MPL-Dragons that used to do a good job of destroying lights just can't even find their hitbox to hurt them and get wrecked.

Collisions are a whole other issue. Being unable to find their hitbox to even HURT them is what is wrecking this game.

[Digital Ninja]

hashinshin, on 02 November 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

It's becoming increasingly common as people catch on to how HORRIBLE the net code is to see teams fielded of 4 or more lights. At first 4 was a lot, but now if their team DOESN'T have 4 jenners circle strafing us it's a rarity.

Even mechs like MPL-Dragons that used to do a good job of destroying lights just can't even find their hitbox to hurt them and get wrecked.

Collisions are a whole other issue. Being unable to find their hitbox to even HURT them is what is wrecking this game.

People with 300+ ping are ruining the game for themselves. I get about 50 ping give or take and the hit detection is nearly perfect for me. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting at lights or assaults. It doesn't matter if I'm driving lights or assaults. It's all the same. Get a better connection or move to the same country the servers are located in.

Edit: And dragons were never good against lights.

Edit 2: And if lights bother you so much get a streak cat. Those are god mode against lights and lag is irrelevant to them.

Edited by Digital Ninja, 02 November 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[hashinshin]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

People with 300+ ping are ruining the game for themselves. I get about 50 ping give or take and the hit detection is nearly perfect for me. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting at lights or assaults. It doesn't matter if I'm driving lights or assaults. It's all the same. Get a better connection or move to the same country the servers are located in.

Edit: And dragons were never good against lights.

oh, good everyone. He says it's our connection. Everyone who has had issues with being unable to hit lights just has bad connections! Everyone, everyone! All of you who get circle strafed every game, it's not the net code sucking, it's your connection!

[Digital Ninja]

hashinshin, on 02 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

oh, good everyone. He says it's our connection. Everyone who has had issues with being unable to hit lights just has bad connections! Everyone, everyone! All of you who get circle strafed every game, it's not the net code sucking, it's your connection!

Post a screen of your ping. We all play on the same servers and most people don't have this problem. There are only 2 explanations; bad connection or bad players looking for scapegoats.

Edited by Digital Ninja, 02 November 2012 - 03:26 AM.

[Balmung Boonhammer]

From what I can tell the servers are based in the US, so as european players, we naturally have a higher ping. You can look at the scoreboard and see who'd from US and who is from outside US. All those outside get 150+ ping, while all US players get < 50.

Edited by Balmung Boonhammer, 02 November 2012 - 03:27 AM.

[Digital Ninja]

Balmung Boonhammer, on 02 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

From what I can tell the servers are based in the US, so as european players, we naturally have a higher ping. You can look at the scoreboard and see who'd from US and who is from outside US. All those outside get 150+ ping, while all US players get < 50.

That would fall under the bad connection category. Hopefully Piranha will get you guys some local servers some day. This is yet another reason why non-MMOs should let players host their own servers.

Edited by Digital Ninja, 02 November 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Faithsfall]

try shooting ahead of the target even with lasers, it does work. I normally have to lead a light by about 1 or 2 mech lengths, missiles still kill lights/ streaks are nut's as they do all ct dmg and are locked on, only ballistic single shot have problems but then again that has always been the case.

[Balmung Boonhammer]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

That would fall under the bad connection category. Hopefully Piranha will get you guys some local servers some day.

Bad location be more like it. My connection is just fine, get ping 25 to EU servers, it's just that my data packets need to travel all the way to the US east coast and back

[Digital Ninja]

Balmung Boonhammer, on 02 November 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

Bad location be more like it. My connection is just fine, get ping 25 to EU servers, it's just that my data packets need to travel all the way to the US east coast and back

I didn't say it was your fault it was bad, just that it was.

[Mazgazine1]

I had jumped on another thread complaining about the lag, but after some experimentation I don't think its the same issue mw2/3/4 had.


I think most of the problem is in how lasers do damage, a little commando can be very hard to hit and there isn't much opening to do damage.Since lasers are "damage over time" in this version, it makes them EXTREMELY ineffective against fast moving targets.

Pulse lasers seemed to help a little but its the same problem. Hit detection needs to be put back in, even in my slow first time raven.. escaping an Atlas is as easy as running straight through them....

also we are seeing lots of lights, because its the first mech you can buy.. and unfortuantely they are not weak in this game...

[Devils Advocate]

I tend to run pulse lasers and when those things sit still it's only a couple of volleys, though I think jenners are wonkier as I've drilled one in the face 3 times before it fell with 35 damage. And that was standing still but clipping into me. Jenners get about 5x the armor they should have against lasers because the combination of rough netcode and people probably having rough framerates (I know I do) makes is so you only get about 1/10th of your laser damage off on a jenner even if you can keep your cursor right on it. I keep seeing people tell me to lead them with lasers, but aren't those hitscan?

[OldGrayDonkey]

I don't quite understand why the debate that lag might be an issue here, even the title of the thread calls it a lag shield. Of course it's your ping rate, that's what lag is.

What should be happening though in the code is that the client should factor in where the client thinks the target is when they fire. The server should determine a hit based on where the client thought the target was when they pulled the trigger. This would eliminate the lag issue. It might create other issues, such as it limits the way a target can counter those attacks, and creates a problem for lasers which need to be held on target, but you can't counter every issue of lag in a game like this. Adjust your fighting style to limit it's impact.

What I have somewhat noticed is that contacts at close range are updated better in the clients than those at long range. You might want to consider close range mechs and tactics if your ping rates are high.

EDIT: Another way the code can counter lag is with better predictive code in the client so that breaks in data rate don't affect what the client sees as much. It's called dead reckoning.

Edited by Darkstang, 02 November 2012 - 03:48 AM.

[John Norad]

To be honest, every time I spectate a light mech, especially fighting another light mech, I find it kind of ridiculous.
It's nothing short of Hawken and twitch gameplay. Motion sickness included.

If you think about it, it isn't even surprising.
No skidding, no collision damage, no slowing down due to terrain or turning.

If the infighting was a bit less twitchy, the netcode problem would probably be less aggravating.

Edited by John Norad, 02 November 2012 - 05:18 AM.

[KKRonkka]

Speed, rubberbanding and concept 'damage over time lasers' = you wont do enough damage to fast moving target's module/part. Only things that allow concentrated damage to small point (excluding missiles/streaks) are auto cannons and gausses but hitting the light mech is a real pain in the ***.

Quote

People with 300+ ping are ruining the game for themselves. I get about 50 ping give or take and the hit detection is nearly perfect for me.

Well that was smart. "I get 50 ping", I assume you're from US then. Problem number 1: server's in US, and European players can blame themselves right. Not very player friendly approach if developers want to attract customers. But there's one thing - I usually play DayZ (arma2 online mod) in US servers without any problems, with same ping (about 150). No problem hitting things. No visible lag. No problems at all. Would it be similar to MWO experience it would be almost impossible to play.

I can see the main problem in MWO, not only in players connections. Of course bad connection causes lag, but this netcode problem has also been acknowledged by developers. It was especially highlighted when buggy collision model was still present, and lag-issue has changed after every patch... I remember how laggy it was after one certain patch, totally unplayable. Next one was much smoother, but light mechs are still rubberbanding.

Edited by KKRonkka, 02 November 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Pangorin]

Well, I am from EU, Ping 130-150, I can hit the Jennys, sometimes hit detection is not working, this is not nice! But let's deal with it, according to what it is : A BUG! Not more, and not anything less. The Ping of Players in EU should be improved and the Hit detection bug needs to be fixed, that's it!
And for sure, it's not ruining the game! I already saw games wich had much more and more terrible bugs then MWO!

[Wolfways]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Post a screen of your ping. We all play on the same servers and most people don't have this problem. There are only 2 explanations; bad connection or bad players looking for scapegoats.

In that case maybe we should ask them to turn the EU server back on that they obviously switched off last patch.

[Freeride Forever]

So the servers are in Eastern US? That might explain why I always seem to have the lowest ping in the match. I figured the servers were in Van' where PGI is & it didn't make any sense since I'm a few thousand km from there.

I never have any problems hitting any mech while it's moving, but lately I've had 3 occurences where I alpha a mech in the center of the back while it's shutdown & the damage doesn't register. In one case it was a Raven with no RCT armor, & it's back was orange. My 6 SL alpha directly to the center of the back should've killed it but it didn't even register. When it started up & got moving again I hit it somewhere in the side & it went down.

On an unrelated note, I think Streakcats are the Godmech against anything within range of it & that doesn't exclude much since they can be made to run up to 85kph & can twist their torso farther than anything else. Even the most ******** monkeys can win matches for their team in them pretty easily unless the opposing team has one of their own or make good use of LRMs & other longer range weapons. I have found no effective way in a 150kph Jenner of stopping one from killing half my team before I can safely lock it up for LRMs, or get the Streaks off of it myself. I see more of them than Gausscats now & as much as I hated & feared the Gauss, at least it required some skills. If you have weapons that can lock on & hit targets like that & knock them all over the place with no minimum range then why would the machine even need a pilot or the additional systems to accomodate one? Good tactics can get them I'm sure. I hope people get that figured out soon.

Anyone know where the Hawken servers are? I have no problems in that either & it actually works much better 'cuz there's no server related problems like there has been here after the last few patches.

Edited by Freeride Forever, 02 November 2012 - 04:15 AM.

[Springbok]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

People with 300+ ping are ruining the game for themselves. I get about 50 ping give or take and the hit detection is nearly perfect for me. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting at lights or assaults. It doesn't matter if I'm driving lights or assaults. It's all the same. Get a better connection or move to the same country the servers are located in

As a player with 300+ ping and running a light mech temporary to grind C-Bills, all I can say that if I could have decreased my ping I would have done so already. The simple reality is, is that I can't as the distance to the server is just too great from my geographic location and is not related to my ISP or line quality. It frustrating for me as well!

As to your recommendation to just simply move to the country hosting the server...not practical at all. Only solution is to set up a sever that can cater for the southern region of Africa - but I doubt it would be financially feasible as there is probably is not enough players over here. An EU server will probably reduce my ping to the 220 - 260 range.

[Adridos]

You must have a guided weapon if you want a fighting chance against them, but the current way of hitting things is f**** up.
I was in a brawl with a Hunchback which had red CT. I was constantly hitting and wondering where did the damage go. Once I had enough, I simply turned to the other side while me lasers still fired, so I can go cover because of LRMs that were more or less imminent. To my suprise, that shot 2 meters away from his CT cored him.

Edited by Adridos, 02 November 2012 - 04:26 AM.

[Digital Ninja]

Darkstang, on 02 November 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

I don't quite understand why the debate that lag might be an issue here, even the title of the thread calls it a lag shield. Of course it's your ping rate, that's what lag is.

What should be happening though in the code is that the client should factor in where the client thinks the target is when they fire. The server should determine a hit based on where the client thought the target was when they pulled the trigger. This would eliminate the lag issue. It might create other issues, such as it limits the way a target can counter those attacks, and creates a problem for lasers which need to be held on target, but you can't counter every issue of lag in a game like this. Adjust your fighting style to limit it's impact.

What I have somewhat noticed is that contacts at close range are updated better in the clients than those at long range. You might want to consider close range mechs and tactics if your ping rates are high.

EDIT: Another way the code can counter lag is with better predictive code in the client so that breaks in data rate don't affect what the client sees as much. It's called dead reckoning.

Client side hit detection leads to prodigious amounts of cheating. There's a reason nobody uses it anymore.