127 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

There is no lag shield for fast mechs.

You have to lead them.

Also, turn down your graphics.

But some people with 300+ pings will be hard to hit. That isn't a lag shield from having a fast mech. That is someone having a bad connection/computer. If two people are trying to hit each other with both of these going on, good luck to them.

[Athurio]

I'm not sure the servers are on the East coast... I usually get pings of 55ms max on east coast servers, but I'm running 130-150 usually on MWO, which is what I usually get if I join a west coast server in other example games.

Edit: Just to clarify, I am on the east coast.

Edited by Krellmane, 02 November 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[Blark]

Pangorin, on 02 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Well, I am from EU, Ping 130-150, I can hit the Jennys, sometimes hit detection is not working, this is not nice! But let's deal with it, according to what it is : A BUG! Not more, and not anything less. [...]

I concur.
As you can see I'm from the eu (germany) myself, my ping is pretty steady at 110-130, and I think its rather a bug then the ping:
Any decent netcode from over a decade ago could handle such a ping with ease (like the hl1 engine, based on q-engine) and it's been my experience that the problem does not occur all the time (been playing almost exclusively light-light hunter since ob).
For instance: when circle-strafing most lights I hunt seem to register shots(sl) just fine, while others don't register any dmg unless I lead the shots as if the hit-box was offset a bit; and I don't mean ultra high ping targets.

There has been a theory that the missing collisions have something to do with it.. you surly remember how targets changed their position a bit (some more, some less) after standing up and the theory was that this was fixing offset hitbox.
Perhaps the theory is wrong, but it seems strange that the problem got worse with ob and also why some mechs change their position after powering up after an overheat and others don't.
Some feedback from the devs regarding this would be nice.

[stjobe]

John Norad, on 02 November 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

To be honest, every time I spectate a light mech, especially fighting another light mech, I find it kind of ridiculous.

Me too, it's absolutely painful to spectate some people:

Firing their weapons behind their target (instead of leading it - hell, if it even was *on* the target it would be better).
Not knowing where their legs are pointed, humping a building instead of moving.
Firing their torso weapons when their arm reticule is on target but the torso one is off to the side.
Firing their arm weapons when their torso reticule is on target but the arm one is pointing to the sky.
Half of the people I spectate seem to play with a joystick or gamepad (seriously, don't - the support for alternate controllers suck and so will you)
Nobody seems to target what they're shooting at.
Those who do target what they shoot at seem incapable of looking up to the right corner and see that the left torso is devoid of armour and keep shooting the undamaged right side instead.
One hit away from coring an assault they switch to an undamaged light that happens to run past.

I think "lag shield" is the least of these people's problems.

Edited by stjobe, 02 November 2012 - 04:44 AM.

[Pangorin]

Blark, on 02 November 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

...
There has been a theory that the missing collisions have something to do with it.. you surly remember how targets changed their position a bit (some more, some less) after standing up and the theory was that this was fixing offset hitbox.
Perhaps the theory is wrong, but it seems strange that the problem got worse with ob and also why some mechs change their position after powering up after an overheat and others don't.
Some feedback from the devs regarding this would be nice.

I think that this theory might be correct! But I have to admit that I'm not that experienced in programming, I'm just a "user"!
The other thing is that this is a "known issue" so why should we continue complaining while the Devs are already working on it?

I know this is something very hard for a lot of people in here, but ...

Let's try to be patient till they fixed the problem!

Edited by Pangorin, 02 November 2012 - 04:56 AM.

[Adridos]

Stone Wall, on 02 November 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

There is no lag shield for fast mechs.

You have to lead them.

With lasers and even more with ballistics. If your ballistick hit, you're doing it wrong, it must hit that rock, so the light mech takes damage. At least it's going to be reverted to the pre-patch state on the next patch.

[Dahmer]

stjobe, on 02 November 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

Me too, it's absolutely painful to spectate some people:

Firing their weapons behind their target (instead of leading it - hell, if it even was *on* the target it would be better).
Not knowing where their legs are pointed, humping a building instead of moving.
Firing their torso weapons when their arm reticule is on target but the torso one is off to the side.
Firing their arm weapons when their torso reticule is on target but the arm one is pointing to the sky.
Half of the people I spectate seem to play with a joystick or gamepad (seriously, don't - the support for alternate controllers suck and so will you)
Nobody seems to target what they're shooting at.
Those who do target what they shoot at seem incapable of looking up to the right corner and see that the left torso is devoid of armour and keep shooting the undamaged right side instead.
One hit away from coring an assault they switch to an undamaged light that happens to run past.

I think "lag shield" is the least of these people's problems.

There's a guy who had someone spectate him during game and they both recorded it, then put the vids into one, side by side. You can clearly see differences in what the shooter sees and what the spectator sees. There are indeed sync/lag problems. Not sure where it is at this point.

To have to lead a target with lasers is a clear indicator something is off; we're not shooting things going warp speed.

[Dr Killinger]

It's not just down to lag, it's something up with the net code and it's predictive hit detection (or whatever you'd like to call it). As said before, most games limit the experience of lag.

I'm just hoping with all my might that PGI sorts it out. Fighting lights is impossible without SSRMs at the moment.

[Spoon]

Yeah it was great great fun when a jenner started circle strafing my catapult. Even though I repeately scored direct hits with my 4 medium lasers, the jenner's health remained unchanged. Half way through I just gave up and started chatting how dumb this was. And the spectators told me that 'I had to hit the guy first to do damage'. Leading me to believe that every clean hit on my screen, must have been killing dirt on the screens of others. Fun fun fun.
I usually have around 140 ping, the jenner from my example had around 250. Lagshield™ is a nice thing to have.

[Lerzpftz]

Hi.

I'm also playing from germany with 120-150ms ping. A while after the last patch i thought i may be unknowingly drunken all the time, since i didn't hit sidewards moving fast mechs anymore and couldn't aim at specific mech locations at all. After a while i realized, that i suddenly have to lead them 1-3 meters, to make my laser hits register. After some practice you get kind of used to it and light mechs are killable again.

Anyway, since it was pretty easy to shoot them before the last patch, when i had the same high ping times as now, it surely is something that was introduced in the last patch. Just wanted to confirm those observations.

Spoon, on 02 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

I usually have around 140 ping, the jenner from my example had around 250. Lagshield™ is a nice thing to have.

I'm pretty sure, since the server is calculating everything, the combined jenner lagshield is only your 140ms, not the cummulated 390ms of both your pings. The server "knows" where you and the jenner are. It doesn't need to wait for Mr. 250ms ping to report his position.


Edit: I usually have 20-30ms ping in almost every other game with EU servers and 40-60ms when playing on US servers. Don't blame my connection. ^^

Edited by Lerzpftz, 02 November 2012 - 05:10 AM.

[Flapdrol]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Client side hit detection leads to prodigious amounts of cheating. There's a reason nobody uses it anymore.

well, nobody... battlefield 3 does it, cod does it. I agree it's a terrible idea though.

anyway, lag compensation gets you a bunch of other issues, maybe do something like normalise and compensate up to 40ms or something and have a few servers around the world, then let people choose where to log in.

Edited by Flapdrol, 02 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.

[Blark]

Spoon, on 02 November 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

Yeah it was great great fun when a jenner started circle strafing my catapult. Even though I repeately scored direct hits with my 4 medium lasers, the jenner's health remained unchanged. Half way through I just gave up and started chatting how dumb this was. And the spectators told me that 'I had to hit the guy first to do damage'. Leading me to believe that every clean hit on my screen, must have been killing dirt on the screens of others. Fun fun fun.
[..]

Forgot about that, but I also noticed how shots perfectly aligned on the players screen can look awfully off for the spectators.. perhaps the spectator mode is just imprecise or maybe it really shows the real thing.. could be useful: the next time I play with some friends I'll ask them how far I have to lead when they are spectating

[Sickocrow]

It is simply bad net code. I could hit lights all day in WoTNA playing 320ms. I can barely hit a mobile centurion or hunchback just doing 80kmh in this let alone a 140kmh Jenner. The shot fall on ballastics is very inconistent and lasers aren't really hitting where your clients shows.

[Orzorn]

The devs already said they were rolling back the netcode changes because they made it worse. They've acknowledged this issue, and anyone claiming its exclusively due to ping is out of the loop.

http://mwomercs.com/...4-known-issues/

Quote

We are rolling back some networking code fixes. This will address many of the hit box issues currently in the live environment. The rollback does not fix the problem entirely, and we are working hard on improving the overall experience vs performance. This is a long term engineering task and a top priority internally.

Edited by Orzorn, 02 November 2012 - 05:33 AM.

[Kaldor]

Wow, some super logic here.

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

People with 300+ ping are ruining the game for themselves. I get about 50 ping give or take and the hit detection is nearly perfect for me. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting at lights or assaults. It doesn't matter if I'm driving lights or assaults. It's all the same. Get a better connection or move to the same country the servers are located in.

Yes because you should have to live in the same country as the server. 100-150 ping is adequate for any FPS. I have a 25-35 ping and my hit detection is ****. My computer also runs this game very well so it is not a PC performance issue either.

Quote

Edit: And dragons were never good against lights.

Dragons are fine for killing lights because they have decent speed, and a wide range of movement with their arms, but with the ****** hit code in place right now ballistic weapons are pretty much worthless if your trying to shoot something on the move. Yes, you can mount lasers and SSRMs on a Dragon, but they are primarily a ballistic based mech. Add in the fact that there are no more collisions right now and it FUBARs the entire paper/rock/scissors mechanic.

Quote

Edit 2: And if lights bother you so much get a streak cat. Those are god mode against lights and lag is irrelevant to them.

Yeah, because running a cheese build to counter something is always the answer. What will you do when they nerf, and deservedly so, SSRMs? L2P

[OldGrayDonkey]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Client side hit detection leads to prodigious amounts of cheating. There's a reason nobody uses it anymore.

Maybe, and good point, but it seems they could solve that with a secure connection between the client and the servers. Validate the clients are who they say they are, then validate every packet sent with a hash of their own choosing. Change the hash now and then to stop people from figuring it out. We have the bandwidth and processing power to handle this problem at the client, at least enough to take another look at it for feasibility.

[Blackburne]

I just started playing a few days ago and allready getting tired of lights. Getting worse each day, seem to run into more and more groups off 4 or more jenners.

[Kyone Akashi]

Blark, on 02 November 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Forgot about that, but I also noticed how shots perfectly aligned on the players screen can look awfully off for the spectators.. perhaps the spectator mode is just imprecise or maybe it really shows the real thing.. could be useful: the next time I play with some friends I'll ask them how far I have to lead when they are spectating

Given how the communication between server and client works, I would say that Spectator Mode is either impresice or shows the real thing depending on how good or bad your connection is (keeping in mind that "ping/latency" and "lag" are two different things). Either way, it means that the spectator OR the pilot being spectated suffer from the issue, but not both (else the spectator would see the same, since their client operates on the same principle for displaying other 'mechs).

Soooo ... it is not a server-side issue. Which means it is client-side. Yet as not everybody is affected, it may be something about people's home network or ISP rather than the game itself? I am not an expert, but these are my conclusions, based on what I have experienced in the game. MWO features a mechanic that attempts to compensate via prediction, and perhaps this can be improved somewhat. Or is it possible that the game's netcode would work with varying degrees of efficiency depending on the various players' hardware?

[Elizander]

Adridos, on 02 November 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

You must have a guided weapon if you want a fighting chance against them, but the current way of hitting things is f**** up.
I was in a brawl with a Hunchback which had red CT. I was constantly hitting and wondering where did the damage go. Once I had enough, I simply turned to the other side while me lasers still fired, so I can go cover because of LRMs that were more or less imminent. To my suprise, that shot 2 meters away from his CT cored him.

It's quite frustrating. A minimum of 2 missile hardpoints for Streak SRM2s are the bare minimum for me when considering what chassis to get next.

Blackburne, on 12 November 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I just started playing a few days ago and allready getting tired of lights. Getting worse each day, seem to run into more and more groups off 4 or more jenners.

You're gonna have to pack as many Streaks as you can. It usually drives them off. Your alternative is to practice leading shots on various lights at various speeds at various distances. Having around 4 lasers set to chain fire usually allows you to have a 100% steady stream of fire that you can use to tag light mechs with.

Or just add a Machine Gun. Once it hits, let loose with the rest of the beams.

Edited by Elizander, 12 November 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Digital Ninja, on 02 November 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Post a screen of your ping. We all play on the same servers and most people don't have this problem. There are only 2 explanations; bad connection or bad players looking for scapegoats.

Actually I'm seeing this same issue - teams of 4 jenners are quite frequent right now.

Way to help grow the playerbase founders. Good job.