155 replies to this topic

[Lerzpftz]

stjobe, on 02 November 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

My DHS Commando will now have what amounts to 14 SHS instead of 20. It's a nerf, but even with the current DHS bug it was already getting to a point where I didn't have to even bother with heat management with a 3xMPL load-out, just keep the trigger depressed.

Your DHS commando won't work anymore. You have 14 instead of 20 HS after the patch, which will lower your dissipation rate by 33% and your 3xMPL will cause 33% more heat. That taken together, you may field 2 med pulse lasers max ... or use streaks, as anybody else does.

Particle Man, on 02 November 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

How can something thats not even out yet, and is an improvement on what we have now be considered a nerf?

They have a version of DHS out already. After the next patch, my mechs will dissipate heat slower, even with the engine fix. That is a nerf ... after i paid 6 million to upgrade them. ^^

Steel Claws, on 02 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Yes I do math quite well.

Did you not read the part where the engine HS were all singles in the current scheme when converted to doubles? If there are 10 HS in a standard 250 engine and you gain .4 for each one of those 10. Thats a pretty good increase in my book. There is no way you can add more than say 6 - 8 additional doubles to any mech and still carry decent weaponry so the sinks in the motors are going to be very important. So you are looking at a mech with 16 - 18 HS (or up to two more if you have a XL 300) having the equivelent of 22.4 - 25.2 HS but also having used 6 - 7 less tons to get there. Anyone see any issue with THAT math. I'll take the extra tonnage thank you.

Yes they are too expensive to convert though.

You forgot to mention, that those 8 extra DHS fill both torsos completely, making any hardpoints there useless and not allowing you to field an XL engine. So you probably won't be able to field a 300er engine. Try building an awesome with that. Heat balancing shouldn't center on small and medium lasers only, just because there are some nasty jenner and hunchbacks.

I have a 6 med laser jenner, i know it's nasty, but it also has to run without AMS, 'only' 120km/h, has only about 160 armor and is usually as good as dead, as soon as i meet something with streaks. Oh ... and it cost more than a stock atlas. It SHOULD be a mean machine. Anyway ... currently it's pretty hard to build anything heavy or assault fielding bigger energy weapons. I'm still dreaming of PPCs beeing usefull on awesomes or catapults. And i hoped DHS would help to adress those issues.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 03 November 2012 - 08:05 AM.

[Yokaiko]

cache, on 03 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

8th grade math will tell me how DHS will perform according to my playing style? I'd love to see that formula.

FYI, I don't set a paperweight on the 1-5 keys to fire everything as fast as it cycles. I maneuver and choose my shots carefully. Also, math will not tell you the type of game experience that PGI wishes to give you. (This isn't about what you want, by the way, but what they want to provide.)

Yeah and in a couple thousand games the prevalence of large high heat weapons tells you what? What they are doing is telling us that heat disapation isn't only not going to be improved, its going to get WORSE unless you use ballistics (which I do) in spite of terrible hit registration, a variable timing delay weight AND heat.

If you see me, I'll be in the light blowing your ******* arms off while you carefully line up your shots. Or blowing your head off with a gauss when you come out from cooling down for the 5th time.

[Blark]

I expected that dhs wont give full 2x cooling, since it would be a little over the top imho.
However, after calculating a bit 1.4 seems a little too low to me, I would have expected 1.5 at the very least, or around 1.7 for testing.

[Cache]

Yokaiko, on 03 November 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

If you see me, I'll be in the light blowing your ******* arms off while you carefully line up your shots. Or blowing your head off with a gauss when you come out from cooling down for the 5th time.

LOL

I'll keep an eye out for you.

[Badgerpants]

Quote

After fixing the EHS bug, and setting DHS to a canon value of 2.0, we experienced anticipated results. Heat was no longer a concern, increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts. After testing a variety of standard builds, we settled on 1.4. This value maintains the spirit of both DHS and maintains the integrity of MWO's overall gameplay experience.

If I'm paying 1.5 million for Double Heatsinks they'd better ******* double my heat dissapation!

Quote

Increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts.

That's the point of Double Heatsinks!

[Cache]

Blark, on 03 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

I expected that dhs wont give full 2x cooling, since it would be a little over the top imho.
However, after calculating a bit 1.4 seems a little too low to me, I would have expected 1.5 at the very least, or around 1.7 for testing.

If you were in closed beta you might remember the economy testing. Way high, way low, little high, little low.

[Yokaiko]

cache, on 03 November 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

If you were in closed beta you might remember the economy testing. Way high, way low, little high, little low.

That is the worrisome part, there was never way high there can't be in comparison to the firing rates.

[Cache]

Yokaiko, on 03 November 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

That is the worrisome part, there was never way high there can't be in comparison to the firing rates.

Did you miss the part where he said they tested 2.0x and it was way high? (Paraphrasing )

[QuantumButler]

the 1.4 dissipation would be reasonable ONLY if they decreased the crit slots to 2 per DHS instead of 3, call 'em Improved Heatsinks instead of Doubles.

[Yokaiko]

cache, on 03 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Did you miss the part where he said they tested 2.0x and it was way high? (Paraphrasing )

Yeah, and I call bull****.

I want to know what build ran heat neutral? A Gausscat?

Edited by Yokaiko, 03 November 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Yokaiko, on 03 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

yeah, and I call ********.

"Way high" probably means "accidentally makes ER large lasers and ppcs viable"

[Dodger79]

Blark, on 03 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

I expected that dhs wont give full 2x cooling, since it would be a little over the top imho.
However, after calculating a bit 1.4 seems a little too low to me, I would have expected 1.5 at the very least, or around 1.7 for testing.

Over the top? There are several designs that work only with "full" dhs, like the Imp, Awesome AWS-9M, Penetrator, Berserker, Thug,Flashman and Clan Mechs like Daishi, Masakari, Mad Cat, Black Hawk, Puma.

DHS were supposed to be the fix for the broken heat system and now they do not work properly. Great job.

[Child of Wonder]

Yokaiko, on 03 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Yeah, and I call bull****.

I want to know what build ran heat neutral? A Gausscat?

I call bull, too.

I've tested out an Atlas with 30 SHS and 2 Large Lasers and 2 Medium Lasers. Even that would overheat too quickly. I SERIOUSLY doubt true DHS would suddenly make heat not a concern unless someone had a 400 engine and 10 heat sinks outside the engine for a total of 26 DHS.

[Clay Pigeon]

It's as if they want everything that isn't a gauss cat to overheat...

[AlexWildeagle]

If they seriously drop the price I might, but 1.4 for 3 crit spaces just doesn't make sense for most my builds.

To make the new change worth it they need to drop the price and make it 2 crit spaces instead of 3.

[Dodger79]

cache, on 03 November 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

If you were in closed beta you might remember the economy testing. Way high, way low, little high, little low.

We're not in closed beta anymore. There won't be wipes anymore, every C-Bill and, more importantly, MC you spend for advanced technology and/or Mechs using them is gone for good now. They cannot change values in magnitudes like in the closed beta simply because they cannot take away features players have already paid for.

[Yokaiko]

Child of Wonder, on 03 November 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

I call bull, too.

I've tested out an Atlas with 30 SHS and 2 Large Lasers and 2 Medium Lasers. Even that would overheat too quickly. I SERIOUSLY doubt true DHS would suddenly make heat not a concern unless someone had a 400 engine and 10 heat sinks outside the engine for a total of 26 DHS.

The funny part is that I don't really like driving assualts. I'm mastering Cents ATM because I never have but my favorite mech is still dragon. Other than that I usually stick to mediums and lights.

....and WTF is this crap.

[Neanot]

Hmm, this makes DHS completely pointless on my 2 favourite builds. For my setups, at only 1.4x, the overall heat dissipation ends up the same, once I take into account the fewer DHS I can fit compared to HS. Weight drops, sure, but I can't fit anything else in, once I move everything around to free up multiples of 3-crit slots. End result is paying 1.5Mil to do nothing except up my repair costs post-match.

Keep 2x, not 1.4 for DHS, especially if you are upping the heat from many of the lasers!

[Matthew Ace]

What they should do IMO is to:
1) Make DHS dissipate 2x as fast as SHS *BUT*
2) Make each DHS add only 1 (or 1.5 if there's a must) to the Heat Scale Threshold (this is something I'm not sure how it works at the moment. Does each DHS add +2 to heat scale threshold?)?
3) Make individual DHS way more expensive to purchase/repair than SHS. You want to earn a profit using DHS, sure, but you better make your shots count. (You can make the Heat Sink Upgrade cost cheaper if this was done).

Edited by Matthew Ace, 03 November 2012 - 09:03 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Culler, on 02 November 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Yeah, lasers hotter and DHS nerfed hard pretty much killed any hope I had for making laser builds work. This change relegates lasers to secondary weapons and cements gauss as king.

This after the community has long grumbled that the mechs are too hot even when specced for cooling.

Yep, and this pretty much is definitive proof that PGI thinks the heat system as it is now is pretty much working as they intend. This is sad, since many think the heat system is completely broken and ruins most canon configuration mechs.