105 replies to this topic

[Grugore]

Why are we even having this discussion? DHS are only intended to save weight. That's it. If you have just a few large energy weapons with plenty of space left over for heat sinks, they're fine. For example, You could fit 6 small lasers on a jenner and with a 300xl engine, you could fit 22 DHS for a heat dissipation of 30.8. Continuous fire would result in 40.2 heat over ten seconds resulting in 9.4 heat gain per 10 sec. Or almost continuous fire. I think that's not too bad for heat efficiency. Once again. DHS save weight. That's all they do. They may have to adjust the value. So when they 'fix' them, everyone needs to start using them so the devs can get plenty of data for possible recalibration. Anyway. Let's all try them out before we start complaining about them.

[sokitumi]

2x for 1 ton is imba for lights. plain and simple. How that didn't occur to the devs before having the great idea of adding them... who can say.

1.4x seems legit IF they were only 2 slots.

[Stonefalcon]

Yoseful Mallad, on 02 November 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

i see why they went with the 1.4 as a straight up 2.0 dissipation would make mech like your laser boats that much worse. But at just a 1.4 dissipation they can no longer be called double heat sinks and should maybe just be called Advanced Heat Sinks for the sake of this game. And I do feel 3 critical slots is a bit much for just 1.4 dissipation. If they lowered the crit slots to 2 at 1 ton with 1.4 dissipation, i think that would be a great even ground between PGI and the gamers.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Just NOOOOO. The clans aren't here yet and you want IS DHS to be 2 crit slots. OK give us Clan DHS that take up 1 crit slot. Will that be fair then? Too many radical changes will kill this game.

Just see what happens with the 1.4x change before assuming the worst.

[General Taskeen]

Haha "just see what happens." I love these posts. BASIC MATH already sees what happens.

[Grugore]

General Taskeen, on 04 November 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

Haha "just see what happens." I love these posts. BASIC MATH already sees what happens.

Obviously, you didn't read my post. It includes basic math, and also stated that the ONLY thing DHS does is save weight.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Grugore, on 04 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Obviously, you didn't read my post. It includes basic math, and also stated that the ONLY thing DHS does is save weight.

In a small mech, that is correct. In a large mech, it is more advantageous to upsize the engine and stack the DHS there as much as possible to free up crit space. Weight is not the concern as you can fit more tons of SHS in an Assault than you can DHS. That is why the 2 value is so important, because it is only at the 2 level that you achieve enough cooling to make DHS Assault builds viable with proper Assualt weapon loadouts.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 04 November 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[hanitora]

The problem here is from the idiotic idea of including heatsinks in the engine. There is literally no downside to using DHS in engine. DHS in Engine are 2x upgrade from SHS at no cost. zip, nada. And that my friends is why this is so broken. Normal DHS take 3 damn criticals. You don't even have that many to play with on an assault mech. On a 10 heatsink engine though, you get 10 of them, for 12 criticals. Instead of 30. 10 ******** double heatsinks for 12 criticals. It's a no brainer.

The solution does not involve making double heatsinks 1.4 heatsinks. it involves removing heatsinks from engine or leaving engine ones as SHS... or making a DHS engine come with less heatsinks and tonnage.
For example 5 DHS instead of 10 SHS and 17 crits instead of 12 crits. Same dissipation, lighter but more crits. The rest is about balancing weapons.

DHS aren't magical supergood heatsinks, at least the IS versions. They simply dissipate same heat with half the weight at the cost of criticals. This is useful for weight limited mechs, eg light ones and significantly less useful for mechs that have all their crits taken up by crap.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

The problem here is from the idiotic idea of including heatsinks in the engine. There is literally no downside to using DHS in engine. DHS in Engine are 2x upgrade from SHS at no cost. zip, nada. And that my friends is why this is so broken. Normal DHS take 3 damn criticals. You don't even have that many to play with on an assault mech. On a 10 heatsink engine though, you get 10 of them, for 12 criticals. Instead of 30. 10 ******** double heatsinks for 12 criticals. It's a no brainer.

The solution does not involve making double heatsinks 1.4 heatsinks. it involves removing heatsinks from engine or leaving engine ones as SHS... or making a DHS engine come with less heatsinks and tonnage.
For example 5 DHS instead of 10 SHS and 17 crits instead of 12 crits. Same dissipation, lighter but more crits. The rest is about balancing weapons.

DHS aren't magical supergood heatsinks, at least the IS versions. They simply dissipate same heat with half the weight at the cost of criticals. This is useful for weight limited mechs, eg light ones and significantly less useful for mechs that have all their crits taken up by crap.

The downside is that in a large mech, they don't actually fit anywhere else BUT the engine.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 04 November 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[hanitora]

Bubba Wilkins, on 04 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

The downside you twit is that in a large mech, they don't actually fit anywhere else BUT the engine.

Well tough ******* luck cowboy, you can't build your unrealistic 4 PPC heat neutral monstermech with endo steel chassis after all.

BTW from the lore and BT standpoint my suggestion is just as dumb as 1.4 heatsinks. The real solution is just fix the weapon damage/heat instead of making this *********** even worse by assigning arbitrary values to heatsinks. This is just patching leaks with gum and having new ones show up immidiately.

Edited by hanitora, 04 November 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Well tough ******* luck cowboy, you can't build your unrealistic 4 PPC heat neutral monstermech with endo steel chassis after all.

BTW from the lore and BT standpoint my suggestion is just as dumb as 1.4 heatsinks. The real solution is just fix the weapon damage/heat instead of making this *********** even worse by assigning arbitrary values to heatsinks. This is just patching leaks with gum and having new ones show up immidiately.

Actually, this is the build I would like to be running. With some slight tweaks to get 2-4 more DHS in there. Hardly the OP boogeyman.

[hanitora]

Bubba Wilkins, on 04 November 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Actually, this is the build I would like to be running. With some slight tweaks to get 2-4 more DHS in there. Hardly the OP boogeyman.

Sure looks the part.

[The Cheese]

Wow, that Atlas has some heat issues...

[Daycrist Bloodfang]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Sure looks the part.

Not exactly A Founder's Atlas has far more firepower

[Bubba Wilkins]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Sure looks the part.

Yes, it looks the part of an Assualt mech instead of an overgrown Heavy or Medium in an Assault body. Even if I tweaked it to have a couple more DHS & and all DHS = 2, it would still have heat issues.

The Cheese, on 04 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Wow, that Atlas has some heat issues...

Those are all DHS which should give it 26 effective cooling, a couple more should get me in the 30 range which would make it at least reasonable. Heat would still build very quickly when the PPC's were in use. As things are now though, it is completely non-viable build.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 04 November 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[hanitora]

Daycrist Bloodfang, on 04 November 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Not exactly A Founder's Atlas has far more firepower

I am talking about the aesthetics. That thing has **** poor firepower.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Tennex, on 02 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

not that big of a deal. IMO it just means that PGI is diong something to balance the game. Its so much better than "everything has to be TT and canon"

cuz it makes a working game in the end.

They unbalanced the game when they made engine nerfs favour faster base mechs. Because of this you can't fit many DHSs into the bigger, slower mechs. They broke it, now they waste time trying to fix it. What will they break next I wonder?

[LarryDaBird]

Brown Hornet, on 04 November 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

They unbalanced the game when they made engine nerfs favour faster base mechs. Because of this you can't fit many DHSs into the bigger, slower mechs. They broke it, now they waste time trying to fix it. What will they break next I wonder?

Agreed, the speed caps are probably here to stay, or until the netcode gets fixed, so forever...

I personally wouldn't care if they kept the speed caps for all of the mechs but made the 400 available for an atlas (or every mech for that matter). The 400 wouldn't give you any speed above the cap, maybe an acceleration boost? but the extra 6 heatsinks in the engine would be nice...

[Blackfire1]

hanitora, on 04 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I am talking about the aesthetics. That thing has **** poor firepower.

Firepower is just an alpha strike. There is more to this game then that. You would be smart to remember then when you getting your **** shot off by large lasers and Streaks.

[Hexcaliber]

The Cheese, on 04 November 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

By all means, make them 2 times as effective as standard. Just don't start crying when people just load up with 4 LPLs and alpha you in the face repeatedly without having to worry about overheating.

Oh unlike gauss cat?

Daycrist Bloodfang, on 04 November 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Not exactly A Founder's Atlas has far more firepower

Founders is a D class with an F tag, paint job and credit bonus and no more powerful than the standard D, The dc has a different slot layout as it is for lance leaders and commanders and will offer functions not yet available in game.

Edited by Hexcaliber, 04 November 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[hanitora]

Blackfire1, on 04 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Firepower is just an alpha strike. There is more to this game then that. You would be smart to remember then when you getting your **** shot off by large lasers and Streaks.

Streaks are only powerful because they hit the CT and because streak cats stack a ton of em. The actual damage is weak. They are set to get demoted from fotm to not so great soon enough so that's hardly what I'd worry about.

Maybe if you had 3 SRM6, then I'd worry about getting my *** shot off by them. Also that thing has ER PPCs which are hard as **** to aim with the lagcode in place.