310 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

heimloss, on 03 November 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Clever. If you'll kindly recall, "we"- the fans- were making a game called Mechwarrior: Living Legends. Ever heard of it? There's a rumor floating around that your company slapped them with a C&D. Thanks a bunch for that, by the way.

Hahaha, oh wow.

[Squidhead Jax]

MustrumRidcully, on 03 November 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

My god how long do we still need to point out that the weapons in this game are not balanced and are ruining stock mechs? Do I have to get a plane ticket to the US and work them through the math by hand?

Draco Argentum, on 03 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I assumed you were a yank. Not that it matters, you'll have to fly to Canada if you want to get the crayons out in person.

Maybe we could set up a Kickstarter for the plane ticket...

MustrumRidcully, on 03 November 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

For the LRM variants perhaps?

Touché.

[LaserAngel]

I just caught up with the thread and was surprised at the disparity that exists with the RoF (x3 speed) vs. heat dissipation in order to translate the TT rules to realtime FPS. Even then it appears that dissipation speeds were not scaled up.

It really reinforces the need for DHS for large energy weapons and build variety. Boating is curbed well enough with the hard point system and Small/Pulse will be generating their correct heat from now on.

[Jetfire]

idle crow, on 03 November 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

I run 18 DHS on my 4P Hunchback. If the engine is currently 10 SHS + 8 DHS that be 26 SHS. 1.4x18=25.2

DHS need to be at least 1.6 or higher.

Ditto on the 4P

Also K2 4xllas build
Endo and DHS 260 STD engine 8xDHS 10xengine HS for 26 current equivalents, 1.4 multiplier goes to 25.

I would say the 1.5 or 1.6 multiplier seems closer to the mark as even at the 26 heat is still the issue to manage, which it should be, but it should not feel any worse than it does now, though probably not a ton better.

I agree that 2.0 is just too high, but 1.4 is just a bit too low.

[Rogue 6]

I'm pretty sure they did do SOME testing with the DHS at 2.0, though I'd bet real money it was a Jenner using SL / ML and as many DHS as it coiuld fit....what makes it funny is thats a mech you wont stand around ALPHAing with...I mean you run and use the lagshield or you die you don't stand still and alpha.

C1
21 DHS ( 10SHS eng +11DHS ext =32 )
1 LPL
3MPL
2SSRM2
300XL
RUns hot, but managable currently, with 1.4 I'm down to 29.4 .. just got worse and then add in the FIX **cough nerf cough** that my lasers will do MORE heat...so I guess the LPL ( which was fun to have finally ) is gone and back to just 4 ML and singles to get 32ish HS.

Would be nice if they bothered to tell us just how much they are nerfing the Laser heat ( again, they did already up the heat once in CB ) from the way they stated it, we can assume its not just a .1heat thing ....

It really is looking like they are too worried about the Light Mech's boating lasers so they will just nerf all lasers / heat across the board to prevent that. Atleast start the DHS at like 1.6 and adjust from there don't START at an obviously broken level and force your player base to deal with it for 2-4weeks, start at a realistic level and work from there in SMALL amounts.

Oh btw while your fixing this (not)broken stuff hows about moving the 2 Energy hardpoints on the Cat-C4 from the CT to the LT/RT as shown on the mech so we can you know actually use something aside from SL/ML on it?

[Squidhead Jax]

Rogue6u, on 03 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Would be nice if they bothered to tell us just how much they are nerfing the Laser heat ( again, they did already up the heat once in CB ) from the way they stated it, we can assume its not just a .1heat thing ....

From what they said it seems like only 75% of the heat was getting applied, so effectively 33% hotter post-fix.

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 03 November 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

For the LRM variants perhaps?

Which were fine until they put the brakes on them.

Edited by Yokaiko, 03 November 2012 - 09:28 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Jetfire, on 03 November 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ditto on the 4P

Also K2 4xllas build
Endo and DHS 260 STD engine 8xDHS 10xengine HS for 26 current equivalents, 1.4 multiplier goes to 25.

I would say the 1.5 or 1.6 multiplier seems closer to the mark as even at the 26 heat is still the issue to manage, which it should be, but it should not feel any worse than it does now, though probably not a ton better.

I agree that 2.0 is just too high, but 1.4 is just a bit too low.

Anything less than the full 2 is pointless. So you gain 1 HS by switching up? Your build should be running at 32 instead. Even then those LLAS are going to heat things up significantly. When you can jam 24 SHS in nearly the same build, whats the point?

[LaserAngel]

Squidhead Jax, on 03 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

From what they said it seems like only 75% of the heat was getting applied, so effectively 33% hotter post-fix.

Correct, Small/Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration (0.75 sec.) than their stock Medium/Large/ER Large (1 sec.) counterparts. Heat was being generated as a multiple of the fire duration instead of a per event generation of heat.

For example, Medium Pulse Lasers would generate 3.75 heat (0.75 * 5) instead of 5 heat.

[Rogue 6]

LaserAngel, on 03 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Correct, Small/Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration (0.75 sec.) than their stock Medium/Large/ER Large (1 sec.) counterparts. Heat was being generated as a multiple of the fire duration instead of a per event generation of heat.

For example, Medium Pulse Lasers would generate 3.75 heat (0.75 * 5) instead of 5 heat.

Great so my C1 with 21 DHS that was hot but functional will now be Nuclear slag.....

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 02 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Bryan has asked us to post our desired builds so that PGI can show us how they would benefit from the new 1.4 DHS's

#1

Stock Awesome 9M

Sorry guys but double sinks need to stay double. It is in the name and that is it. Double means double, not 40% better. Thats a total crap idea.

[Vapor Trail]

Rogue6u, on 03 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Great so my C1 with 21 DHS that was hot but functional will now be Nuclear slag.....

A spreading puddle of nuclear slag.

With an ER Large Laser sticking out of the middle like a flagpole.

[Konflict]

Here is my current Fatlas, still a work in progress tho. 3 volleys of fire and anything more and I will over heat.

[Yokaiko]

Konflict, on 03 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Here is my current Fatlas, still a work in progress tho. 3 volleys of fire and anything more and I will over heat.

No ballistic to make room for heatsinks.

....and that is getting nerfed.

[Konflict]

Yup.

[nungunz]

LaserAngel, on 03 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Correct, Small/Pulse Lasers have a shorter beam duration (0.75 sec.) than their stock Medium/Large/ER Large (1 sec.) counterparts. Heat was being generated as a multiple of the fire duration instead of a per event generation of heat.

For example, Medium Pulse Lasers would generate 3.75 heat (0.75 * 5) instead of 5 heat.

Oh! Didn't realize this. That's not actually that bad, then. I'm okay with this change now.

[MustrumRidcully]

Maybe a problem is that the devs believe that the heat efficiency stat has any meaning on how a mech actually plays?

Having half the heat dissipation you need can mean very different things.

Let's say you have a loadout that produces 2 heat per seconds on average and heat sinks to dissipate 1 heat per second.
And you have another mech with a ladout that produces 4 heat per second and dissipates 2 heat per second.

For a dissipation of 1 heat per second, you need 10 heat sinks. That means a heat capacity of 40.
For a dissipation of 2 heat per second, you need 20 heat sinks. That means a heat capacity of 50.

First mech generates 1 waste heat per second. So he would last 40 seconds before he shuts down.
Second mec generates 2 waste heat per second. That heans he shuts down after 25 seconds.

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between being able to fire for 40 seconds and being able to fire 25 seconds.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Dragon 1-C

325 XL
2 Large Lasers
2 Medium Lasers
1 SSRM2 (1 ton ammo)
AMS (2 tons ammo)
Endosteel

3 Internal DHS (325 engine holds 3)
6 External Heatsinks

Current heat dissipation: 10+18= 28 (2.8 per second)
With Singles: 19 (1.9 per second)
With "real doubles": 38 (3.8)
On Tuesday: 26.6 (2.66)

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 03 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between being able to fire for 40 seconds and being able to fire 25 seconds.

First and foremost being that the mech that can fire its MAIN battery for the lesser amount of time is going to lose the fight.

[Wrayeth]

Founder's AS7-D

Old build:
1 gauss (4 tons of ammo)
2 ER PPC
1 AMS (1 ton of ammo)
21 single heatsinks
300XL engine with 10 base engine heatsinks
-0.5 tons of armor from base AS7-D

Sinks 31 heat.

Attempted DHS build:
1 gauss (4 tons)
2 ER PPC
2 medium lasers (filler until ECM comes out)
1 AMS (1 ton)
300 SFE with 10 heatsinks
9 additional double heatsinks (two in the engine)

Sinks 28 heat with the current bugged engine heatsinks. With the 1.4 version, it will sink 26.6 heat. With 2.0 heatsinks, it will sink 38 heat.

So, currently, the single heatsink build is superior to the DHS build. With 1.4, it will be even more of a gap. As such, there's no reason to use double heatsinks with either, which contradicts the entire point of having DHS in the first place.

If 2.0 heatsinks were implemented, it would finally allow this Atlas build to make up for its limited weapons' anemic damage with a slightly faster rate of fire.

Personally, I truly dislike the idea of the reduced efficiency for DHS. This will make many canon mech variants completely unusable, and that would be a crying shame. The AWS-9M has already been pointed out as a variant that is totally ruined by the change, and there are many more.

Edited by Wrayeth, 03 November 2012 - 10:29 AM.