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Unlocking torso from waste

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#61 Star Swirls Beard


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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:27 PM

It sounds like people are asking for something similar to how Mech Warrior 3's targeting viewing system worked.
You essentially had a reticule that stayed locked roughly in the center of your screen that showed where hardmounted Torso weapons would hit and a second reticule that could move all over the screen completely independent of the torso that showed where arm mounted weapons would hit and then you had your leg twist. The difference between that and what we have now is that now, when you flick your mouse/joystick to the left, the Arm Reticule follows your cursor and the Torso Reticule slowly tracks behind it, where as in Mech Warrior 3, your arm cursor would hit the edge of the screen and stop. If you wanted to keep turning your arms to the left, you'd have to twist your torso left. This is what people don't like. I don't like it either. I've tried configuring a combination of mouse and flightstick to get two, simultaneous independent controls, but it simply doesn't work because of how the game handles aiming. The issue is that the game only really recognizes one cursor that controls everything. Leftctrl unlocks reticules and stops the torso from tracking to follow the arm reticule, but it also locks the torso so there's still only one controllable reticule.

I doubt a true dual reticule system will be implemented any time soon, or even at all because frankly it was confusing as hell to use. I think that could be circumvented by giving players the option of toggling torso tracking, but I think I'm being a little overly optimistic. It's a pretty difficult system to get used to after playing other FPS's and doesn't really provide much actual benefit outside of giving players more precision with their arms and the ability to shield their torso better, something which a lot of players don't do that much anyway.

I guess I can still dream.

#62 zazz0000


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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:23 AM

This shouldn't be hard to implement, in fact if u think about the game already kinda does it:

You hit F and your legs center out to view. So that does exactly which u speak of, aside from being controlled by the mech - view (torso) stays on target, legs turn.

So yea, with 4 pages of comments and counting the devs will consider throwing this in.

#63 Because Hunchback


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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:15 PM

Don't want. I understand it is possible and that it would make it easier, but that doesn't make it better. I like that the game feels like a simulator as much as a video game, and to make it easier is to take the challenge out of the game. It is quite possible to aim well while strafing/circling etc, you just need to put in more hours in the cockpit. If this were a PvE game I would agree that an option would be nice, but adding an 'easy mode' option to a PvP game is nonsense.

Less posting/qq, more practice.

#64 Red squirrel


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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:42 AM

Difficult to get an answer if nobody understands your question.
Although I think you described it very well. Let's just hope they add such an option.
After all, they added the suer useless "lock arm to torso" option.

I have already adapted to use my mouse to counter the torso movement.
(pressing A and pushing mouse to the right). I think it works well and I do not miss the option the
separate them. But if you use foot pedals I think it could be annoying.

#65 Cunicularius


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Posted 10 January 2016 - 06:50 PM

Good job again, devs, 4 years and nothing.

#66 Dr Kronic


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Posted 10 January 2016 - 08:09 PM

So I just downloaded MWO two days ago and unlocking torso from legs when turning (A and D keys) was the first option I looked for in the game and keyboard settings. I can not believe this is not an option. Happy to see this thread re-opened as this is a must have when circling an enemy. It baffles me how so many people do not understand what is being asked for . . .

#67 Boulangerie


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Posted 11 January 2016 - 01:10 PM

I think there's a reason this thread had so little activity for the last few years, and it isn't that the devs have been lazy.

IMO this would be a terrible option for the game. Part of the skill required in the game is to hold your aim on a specific part of the enemy while driving the mech body around. If your aiming reticle was just in the same spot and you could move your lower body around however you wanted, that would be really weird to me. No thanks.

#68 Jables McBarty


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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:57 PM

I agree that it shouldn't be added--and reading this thread I don't think the early posters who were against it misunderstood the request--it's a pretty straightforward request.

I think the correct analogy here is to the human body and NOT to a tank. My lore is pretty rough, but 'Mechs are moved by myomer, which are muscular analogies quite different from a tank's (hydraulic?) control system. So yes, you can track with your head while your body moves...but it's you, and your brain, and your muscles, doing the tracking. Same with a 'Mech. It's you, the pilot, doing the tracking.

Think of it as the myomer being unable to expand or contract without input from the human pilot. Most of your muscular movements are automatic: you don't think about walking, you just do, because semi-conscious parts of your brain interpret and execute movement orders. When piloting a 'Mech your movements aren't automatic, but they are still dependent on your input. So in order for the 'Mech's hip- and waist-bound myomer to activate, they need an order from you (taken in the form of mouse compensation opposite from leg movement); otherwise they will remain inert and bound to the legs' movement.

Back to the practical: As a light pilot who does a lot of circling, weaving, and damage distribution, I'd benefit enormously from such a change. But I don't want it because it takes a large amount of skill out of the game. Not everybody can compensate for leg movements to get clutch shots while circling. That's what makes a great light pilot great. And adding this feature would make the game feel much closer to every other shooter out there--even if it was in some of the earlier iterations (I played 3 and 4:M long ago, so I don't recall).

It also looks like this thread was started before Center Legs to Torso was made an option, so maybe that helped mitigate the complaints over the years. I can vouch that it's helped me enormously.

TL;DR: The current scheme requires more skill, and this is a skill-based game, hence it should stay. Also, the head-turning analogy supporting such a new feature is flawed because it ignores the fact that you control your own muscles albeit unconsciously.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 14 January 2016 - 12:59 PM.

#69 Knaven86


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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:01 PM

Jables has the right of it. We all completely understand what you're asking for. Perhaps better than you do. Your mech's torso is not *locked* to your legs like it's following your leg movement. Your leg movement just moves the entire mech at the same time. The feature you are requesting to *unlock* your torso movement from the legs is ridiculous because your torso is attached to them.

Think of your own human body. At any given time your waist can twist about, turning from side to side, up down etc. No matter what way you're facing, if you turn which direction your feet are pointed your upper body will move as well unless you *compensate* that movement by moving your torso muscles. This is something that can be easily done in the game by moving your mouse, with almost no conscious thought once you've gotten practice.

What you're asking for is to have the game *move your torso for you* in the opposite direction you turn your legs. You want the game to assist your aiming, not understanding that this is not actually a benefit to you because of many factors, I'll give you just a few examples.
1: You guys have brought up circling around a mech with a light. Adding your feature would make doing this exponentially more difficult. Allow me to make a crude picture to demonstrate.
Posted Image
On the left is the current system. If you turn your torso to the left and leave it there, as you circle an enemy you will more or less stay pointing at them(You have to make up minor aiming since you're not a computer program and probably don't drive in perfect circles). The picture on the right is what happens with your system. With your torso point to the left, in this case west, as you circle around the enemy your torso and weapons continue to point WEST, not at whatever arbitrary target you want help aiming at. to make up for this you'll have to move your mouse to undo what the *unlocked* torso has helped you do.

2. With torso movement hard locks, you'll still have to get used to the system of the legs moving your torso once you reach the extent of it's ability to pivot. This will result in even more frustration on your part as you'll attempt to confine your leg movement to your torso in a backwards way to normal human movement, and then hit the hardpoint anyway when you need to turn your legs in a specific direction throwing your aim completely because you're now operating your head to compensate for something that should be natural.

#70 Arkn


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Posted 28 November 2016 - 05:19 PM

This isn't a option yet, right?
As it seems, it never will be.
Pity, looks like a great idea :/


#71 Void Angel


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Posted 28 November 2016 - 05:45 PM

Nah, not really. It's really a design call by the developers - either way is acceptable, and natural once you get used to it. The way things stand makes movement more of an impact on accuracy and will be familiar to all players of MW3 onward (at least,) while the way the OP wants it done will be slightly less intuitive and give someone more accuracy while they maneuver.

Given that both ways are nearly equivalent, there's no compelling reason to go to the time and expense of delving into a system that may well be deeper inside the engine than people realize.

#72 Autologus


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Posted 29 November 2016 - 03:45 AM

Lets just ask for aim bots too while we are at it, no use in having any skill required to aim. If you don't like to have to aim by using WASD and the mouse just use streaks or LRM's.

#73 Insanity09


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Posted 16 December 2016 - 06:38 PM

I'll agree with those above who don't see this change as necessary.

A) You can already achieve what is being asked for by simultaneous use of keyboard and mouse (Voila! function granted. why spend more dev time on something that is already there?)

B) Mech torso and leg/waist structures are not the same as a tank body and turret. Asking them to perform the same is thus suspect (not wrong per se, just needing greater scrutiny to determine the validity).

#74 Chound


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Posted 17 January 2017 - 01:02 AM

View Postubermut, on 07 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

this would make circling your target so much easier. Currently if you are circling your target every time you make an adjustment to your legs to continue your circle, your aim is thrown off because your upper torso turns with your legs even if you are holding the mouse on your target. So every adjustment made to the lower torso has to also be made in the opposite direction on your upper torso (mouse hand).

This option makes so much sense and I would love to see it added. It would make gameplay so much smoother.

I don't even see the need for a button to be depressed, just always have it unlocked if you set it so in options. I can't think of many instances where I want my legs to effect my upper torso.

Hm, while we're at it lets add a center legs to torso option. Centering torso to legs is all well and good, but I would greatly appreciate both options.

We already have that option. the "F" key centers the legs to the torso and the "C" key moves the torso to the legs. for thetime being the only way to do that is to move the mech with the keyboard and the mouse to adjust the torso. Mech turns left and you move mouse right. What I've done is got behind cover and turn my mech so I go past a low spot and torso twist so my mech is moving left or right and I can lock and aim the torso. It would just take a lot of practice because it's a little harder than it sounds since youn need a wide enough spot. Your jump jets allow you to go forward and back as well so you can add another dimension to the fight. I have ideas but I need to practice a lot more so I can actually do it.

#75 Galaxie 500


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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:07 AM

View PostChound, on 17 January 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

We already have that option. the "F" key centers the legs to the torso and the "C" key moves the torso to the legs.

You just answered a post from 2012, when they at least did not have "C" and I'm not sure if they had "F".

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