293 replies to this topic

[Jonathan Paine]

To all you "LRMs are too powerful" posters: What is your prefered style of play? There seems to be a certain consistency in posters who don't think LRMs are too powerful offer gameplay tips and strategies, while those who want the LRMs nerfed are simply claiming that they do too much damage. When I am not getting slaughtered in PUGs by any kind of organized premade, the team that I run with have prettty much all moved to meds and lights. LRM boats seems to make them happy. They hug ridges/buildings and random cover and can quickly get within minimum range. At that point it all turns into a pathetic dance of slower LRM boats trying to get random locks while the more agile mech's chew them up.

Biggest problem with the game right now is premade vs pugs. It is the one point where the devs are massively disappointing me. I, as a non-programmer, FAIL to understand why you can't simply break us up into "pugs vs pugs" and "premades vs premades" while we wait for the magical superamazing ranking systems to be implemented.

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 05 November 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[Noth]

Jonathan Paine, on 05 November 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

To all you "LRMs are too powerful" posters: What is your prefered style of play? There seems to be a certain consistency in posters who don't think LRMs are too powerful offer gameplay tips and strategies, while those who want the LRMs nerfed are simply claiming that they do too much damage. When I am not getting slaughtered in PUGs by any kind of organized premade, the team that I run with have prettty much all moved to meds and lights. LRM boats seems to make them happy. They hug ridges/buildings and random cover and can quickly get within minimum range. At that point it all turns into a pathetic dance of slower LRM boats trying to get random locks while the more agile mech's chew them up.

Biggest problem with the game right now is premade vs pugs. It is the one point where the devs are massively disappointing me. I, as a non-programmer, FAIL to understand why you can't simply break us up into "pugs vs pugs" and "premades vs premades" while we wait for the magical superamazing ranking systems to be implemented.

I prefer varied style of play. I like a match where I have to move and adapt strategies and tactics as the enemy adapts to my own. Right now, LRMs dictate one maybe two strategies. There is no variation. There is no unique adapting. It's simply seek cover, stay in cover pray their spotter is a derp and gives you shots at him, or play as a light with AMS (I still often kill these with LRMs pretty easily, or at least prevent them from getting close enough to harrass me when sit back an LRM). Heck a guasscat heavy team allowed more strategies to be used.

I don't like the strategy of the entire match being dictated by a single weapon system.

Edited by Noth, 05 November 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[miscreant]

Agree with OP - it's ridiculous and the AMS doesn't do sh*t.

[Alogain]

WAYYYY to many LRM users here defending them with utter ******** "tips" like "find cover".. I have been lit up by LRM's probably more than any other way since starting in closed beta a couple months ago.

Find cover? Are you even serious? LRM's go through buildings and rocks, so WHAT cover is there? I am assuming they are going to fix LRM's someday, but until that happens they should be nerfed. The only time I have seen LRM's get blocked is if your standing too close to said building or rock when you LAUNCH them and they bounce off. Once airborn, very little other AMS will prevent them from hitting you.

Don't even try to say that these are just small bugs, or limited to certain areas. Every map has areas where very large buildings / structures / rocks offer no protection from LRM's and to say otherwise is fiction. Cover cannot be relied upon as an effective countermeasure, because it simply fails to work in too many areas.

And I dont know if its working as intended, but I even managed to hit someone in that double pipe tunnel that runs under the road on one of the maps (cant recall name, the forrest map). Lock target, launch missles, drop lock... wait till missles are near impact area and relock the original target and the missles will fly on a straight line to the original target. This is probably what one poster earlier mentioned as "seeing them go around a corner".. it is possible with this tactic.

[hanitora]

Noth, on 05 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I prefer varied style of play. I like a match where I have to move and adapt strategies and tactics as the enemy adapts to my own. Right now, LRMs dictate one maybe two strategies. There is no variation They is no unique adapting. It's simply seek cover, stay in cover pray their spotter is a derp and gives you shots at him, or play as a light with AMS (I still often kill these with LRMs pretty easily, or at least prevent them from getting close enough to harrass me when sit back an LRM). Heck a guasscat heavy team allowed more stategies to be used.

I don't like the strategy of the entire match being dictated by a single weapon system.

I take issue with this post. First of all what you're talking about is tactics not strategy and LRMs don't dictate tactics either.
I move while trying not to get spotted because I don't want to be hit by
Large lasers
Medium lasers
Small lasers
Gauss rifles
LRM
SSRM
SRM
AC/2
AC/5
AC/10
AC/20
LBX AC/10
etc etc etc

I don't want to be hit, period. The fact that LRMs are one of the things that could hit me which I'd rather didn't is kind of irrelevant. Tell you the truth though, since I am a scout I sometimes actively attract LRMs or run circles in the path, taking them out with my AMS to keep them off my brawlers. I can much easier avoid the damage than a huge-*** Atlas.

Plenty of ways to avoid LRM damage. LRM is the smallest worry for a light on a battlefield and not much of a worry for the fatties either.

Jenner on my ***? Huge problem.
Streak cat decided that I'm going down? Huge ******* problem.
Commando brawling me? Huge ******* problem.
Gausscat lining up a shot from beyond visual range? Huge ******* problem.
LRM boat firing missiles at me from 900m? Yawn.

Quote

Find cover? Are you even serious? LRM's go through buildings and rocks, so WHAT cover is there?

Yes we are serious, have you heard about the netcode problems? Guess what this does? Objects are in locations where they don't appear to be. That includes you. Missiles hitting you through the wall? Jokes on you, you weren't even behind the wall lagmaster.

Edited by hanitora, 05 November 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

miscreant, on 05 November 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Agree with OP - it's ridiculous and the AMS doesn't do sh*t.

TT rules AMS shoot down at most 6 Missiles and do not link to work together. Shooting through cover is plain wrong and I do not like it as a Missile Boat Captain! I want your death to be clean but not painless.

[deputydog]

Remove the aws trial mech or change the varient to the 8q and problem solved.
That and use cover and move up on them.

[Noth]

hanitora, on 05 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I take issue with this post. First of all what you're talking about is tactics not strategy and LRMs don't dictate tactics either.
I move while trying not to get spotted because I don't want to be hit by
Large lasers
Medium lasers
Small lasers
Gauss rifles
LRM
SSRM
SRM
AC/2
AC/5
AC/10
AC/20
LBX AC/10
etc etc etc

I don't want to be hit, period. The fact that LRMs are one of the things that could hit me which I'd rather didn't is kind of irrelevant. Tell you the truth though, since I am a scout I sometimes actively attract LRMs or run circles in the path, taking them out with my AMS to keep them off my brawlers. I can much easier avoid the damage than a huge-*** Atlas.

Plenty of ways to avoid LRM damage. LRM is the smallest worry for a light on a battlefield and not much of a worry for the fatties either.

Jenner on my ***? Huge problem.
Streak cat decided that I'm going down? Huge ******* problem.
Commando brawling me? Huge ******* problem.
Gausscat lining up a shot from beyond visual range? Huge ******* problem.
LRM boat firing missiles at me from 900m? Yawn.


Yes we are serious, have you heard about the netcode problems? Guess what this does? Objects are in locations where they don't appear to be. That includes you. Missiles hitting you through the wall? Jokes on you, you weren't even behind the wall lagmaster.

Sigh. You play lights and only light apparently. I play Mediums, heavies and Assaults. Quite literally the only tactic is sit in cover as you can't move fast enough to avoid getting seen easily unless you take an extremely long route which will leave you stranded most the time.

No one want sto be hit by anything, but LRMs firing at something in the open is free easy damage. Lasers you have to keep on target, AC/Guass you have to lead and compensate for convergeance. SRMs you have to be close and work on lead, SSRMs you have to be close. I can typically avoid a lot of damage in the open even in an assault. I can't avoid it from LRMs. And LRMs deal enough damage to even cripple assaults.

Nothing you said actually counters the fact that LRMs dictate the battlefield and limits the strategies and tactics to be of use.

[Devils Advocate]

"Find cover" is why every game is an LRM battle. You're either in cover and not fighting or you're eating LRMs. God forbid you roll caustic valley and have anything but LRMs on you. One side sits back with Gauss and LRMs and the other side either camps hoping the first side will move or just dies trying to coordinate an offense. It's boring. We need to make LRMs either harder to use or just take them off the damn trials.

[Joseph Mallan]

Noth, on 05 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Sigh. You play lights and only light apparently. I play Mediums, heavies and Assaults. Quite literally the only tactic is sit in cover as you can't move fast enough to avoid getting seen easily unless you take an extremely long route which will leave you stranded most the time.

No one want sto be hit by anything, but LRMs firing at something in the open is free easy damage. Lasers you have to keep on target, AC/Guass you have to lead and compensate for convergeance. SRMs you have to be close and work on lead, SSRMs you have to be close. I can typically avoid a lot of damage in the open even in an assault. I can't avoid it from LRMs. And LRMs deal enough damage to even cripple assaults.

Nothing you said actually counters the fact that LRMs dictate the battlefield and limits the strategies and tactics to be of use.

No it's not. I have to keep lock on you while you are running all over kingdom come for my missiles to hit you. In the meantime, your fast movers (I'm assuming you aren't since you are staying at range) are making me need to decide, if you die, or I take critical damage and blow up from Ammo explosions!

[Wildcat]

iHover, on 04 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Is it just my drops or has this game become nothing more than an LRM contest?
I played for four hours yesterday and most of the drops where nothing more than sitting back waiting for the missile boats to blow the other team away ( or for us to get blown away). The game now seems to be dominated by Assault missile boats packing three or four LRM launchers with enough double heat sinks and ammo to fire nonstop through out the match. These monsters piloted by unskilled players move to a single position and go from target to target raining wave after wave of missiles.
Even in the organized drops Ive been in play out like this. The LRM boats even lay waste to targets that are already being handled by brawlers.
The game just seems to be completely out of balance. IMHO LRMs need to be nerfed by at least 50% and their cost needs to be raised by the same amount.

The Problem is the MATCHMAKER system..........

you are currently up against Premade Teams that have anywhere from 5-8 Mechs with LRMs of some form.... once the Match Maker is Fixed, we should see more balanced games, right now the Matches are far too out of Balance... and Premade Teams are taking Advantage of the flawed Match Maker system that went into Open Beta...

Edited by Wildcat, 05 November 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Noth]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 November 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

No it's not. I have to keep lock on you while you are running all over kingdom come for my missiles to hit you. In the meantime, your fast movers (I'm assuming you aren't since you are staying at range) are making me need to decide, if you die, or I take critical damage and blow up from Ammo explosions!

Keeping lock is stupidly easy unless you are right n my face. It is exponentially harder to keep a laser on target, an AC/Guass lead correctly.

Again though you are just pointing out the singular tactic to counter LRMs, the only tactic that is used when LRMs are fielded heavily (like they are in most matches currently). They dictate the tactics and strategy. Most games would nerf things that do this as allowing such leads to stale and predictable gameplay.

[hanitora]

Noth, on 05 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Sigh. You play lights and only light apparently. I play Mediums, heavies and Assaults. Quite literally the only tactic is sit in cover as you can't move fast enough to avoid getting seen easily unless you take an extremely long route which will leave you stranded most the time.

No one want sto be hit by anything, but LRMs firing at something in the open is free easy damage. Lasers you have to keep on target, AC/Guass you have to lead and compensate for convergeance. SRMs you have to be close and work on lead, SSRMs you have to be close. I can typically avoid a lot of damage in the open even in an assault. I can't avoid it from LRMs. And LRMs deal enough damage to even cripple assaults.

Nothing you said actually counters the fact that LRMs dictate the battlefield and limits the strategies and tactics to be of use.

No, I play lights and missile boats. My heavy missile boat has no AMS and LRMs are still not a problem for me. I spread the damage the exact same way as I do on my light by turning back/side/other side toward the LRM barrages if I can't lose lock.
In 40 games I died once as a heavy to LRM, maybe twice as a scout in 160

The only tactic that it limits is running out in the open alone as a slow mech. You know what else limits that? The 8 mechs on the enemy team running up to you and ****** your face because you're alone in the middle of nowhere..

BTW you must suck at playing heavies, assaults and mediums. My light mech maxed at 81kph which is hardly out of/far from medium/heavy territory.

Quote

We need to make LRMs either harder to use or just take them off the damn trials.

Yea **** those new people, how dare they not be completely worthless. LRM is the battletech novice weapon. Give em to a newbie mechwarrior and he's useful.

[Alogain]

hanitora, on 05 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I take issue with this post. First of all what you're talking about is tactics not strategy and LRMs don't dictate tactics either.
I move while trying not to get spotted because I don't want to be hit by
Large lasers
Medium lasers
Small lasers
Gauss rifles
LRM
SSRM
SRM
AC/2
AC/5
AC/10
AC/20
LBX AC/10
etc etc etc

I don't want to be hit, period. The fact that LRMs are one of the things that could hit me which I'd rather didn't is kind of irrelevant. Tell you the truth though, since I am a scout I sometimes actively attract LRMs or run circles in the path, taking them out with my AMS to keep them off my brawlers. I can much easier avoid the damage than a huge-*** Atlas.

Plenty of ways to avoid LRM damage. LRM is the smallest worry for a light on a battlefield and not much of a worry for the fatties either.

Jenner on my ***? Huge problem.
Streak cat decided that I'm going down? Huge ******* problem.
Commando brawling me? Huge ******* problem.
Gausscat lining up a shot from beyond visual range? Huge ******* problem.
LRM boat firing missiles at me from 900m? Yawn.


Yes we are serious, have you heard about the netcode problems? Guess what this does? Objects are in locations where they don't appear to be. That includes you. Missiles hitting you through the wall? Jokes on you, you weren't even behind the wall lagmaster.

ROFL nice try but no go. When I stop my mech behind a building that is twice as tall and twice as wide as I am. And sit there and STILL get pummeled by LRM's, it is NOT the ******* netcode. Maybe if I am running by the building and it didnt block things in the way I imagined it would be true, but when I park myself squarely behind a building and still take a faceload of LRM while I WATCH them fly through this enormous building, I am exactly where I am supposed to be, in cover and it isnt working.

But dont take my word for it, there are probably 10- 15 other posters in this very thread who are all saying the exact same thing I am, but here you are, telling me that its netcode and that I am not actually in cover like im some kind of dumbass...

[Joseph Mallan]

Noth, on 05 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Keeping lock is stupidly easy unless you are right n my face. It is exponentially harder to keep a laser on target, an AC/Guass lead correctly.

Again though you are just pointing out the singular tactic to counter LRMs, the only tactic that is used when LRMs are fielded heavily (like they are in most matches currently). They dictate the tactics and strategy. Most games would nerf things that do this as allowing such leads to stale and predictable gameplay.

I can agree with the fast Mech in my face, but shooting you with a Gauss at range...
...
...
Well I am a 3 time Marine Rifle Expert the only thing that ruins my shot is 5-9 frames per second. At 14FpS with a Gauss on my hip...
...
...
You are meat before you have an idea I am there.

[Cel]

Alogain, on 05 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

ROFL nice try but no go. When I stop my mech behind a building that is twice as tall and twice as wide as I am. And sit there and STILL get pummeled by LRM's, it is NOT the ******* netcode. Maybe if I am running by the building and it didnt block things in the way I imagined it would be true, but when I park myself squarely behind a building and still take a faceload of LRM while I WATCH them fly through this enormous building, I am exactly where I am supposed to be, in cover and it isnt working.

But dont take my word for it, there are probably 10- 15 other posters in this very thread who are all saying the exact same thing I am, but here you are, telling me that its netcode and that I am not actually in cover like im some kind of dumbass...

Yep, we've explained it countless times already.

[Noth]

hanitora, on 05 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

The only tactic that it limits is running out in the open alone as a slow mech. You know what else limits that? The 8 mechs on the enemy team running up to you and ****** your face because you're alone in the middle of nowhere..

BTW you must suck at playing heavies, assaults and mediums. My light mech maxed at 81kph which is hardly out of/far from medium/heavy territory.

really? The few games that I've dropped into that were light on LRM users never just dropped into a brawl until near the very end of the match. The LRM users despite being light on LRMs could still do enough damage that jumping in and brawling was not a smart nor efficient way to play. Instead it was taking post shots, measuring each other, maneuvering to advantageous positions, baiting,. When the full on combat broke out the roles of the mechs began to show, the brawler went in close the middle fielders defended the long ranged mechs and took shot at the brawlers, the lights bounced between harrassing the long ranged and taking shots on slower brawlers. It was much more engaging and much more fulfilling when I would get kills and even more fulfilling when I was killed, because it wasn't directly because of an overly easy to use highly damaging weapon. They may had indirectly caused it by softening me up or forcing me into cover where their team mate was waiting after I was in very bad shape.

Something as small as dropping back to 1.8 would keep LRMs competitive and useful, while cutting down their raw power, whihc would allow for more varied tactics.

Edited by Noth, 05 November 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[Shiara]

I use catapult variants. So far, the best way to drive me nuts is with light or medium mechs running me ragged and shooting me to pieces. I have a lousy kill to death ratio...but I get a lot of assists with my drops. Mostly though, I die a lot..usually when some light or medium mech finds me and tags + shoots me, or when a concerted and coordinated rush closes the range too fast for me to do much before they are inside range and I'm running for my life. I like the artillery support role for my team, I am fairly decent at it, I think, but far from expert. I like experimenting with 'shoot & scoot' and 'popup' attacks.

Guess I have a totally different experience.

Shiara

[hanitora]

Alogain, on 05 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

ROFL nice try but no go. When I stop my mech behind a building that is twice as tall and twice as wide as I am. And sit there and STILL get pummeled by LRM's, it is NOT the ******* netcode. Maybe if I am running by the building and it didnt block things in the way I imagined it would be true, but when I park myself squarely behind a building and still take a faceload of LRM while I WATCH them fly through this enormous building, I am exactly where I am supposed to be, in cover and it isnt working.

But dont take my word for it, there are probably 10- 15 other posters in this very thread who are all saying the exact same thing I am, but here you are, telling me that its netcode and that I am not actually in cover like im some kind of dumbass...

Considering it happens to me too, and if I stay behind that same building for 20 seconds I get hit by nothing then yea I think it's the netcode and you're blind as a bat. BTW as a LRM boat I often see my missiles fly through buildings even though they actually harmlessly hit the ground.

Also I think you'll find more people saying that the netcode is bad and crying about jenner rubberbanding than you'll see noobs complaining about LRMs. So call me what you will, but in the end you you're the one who'll end up feeling the dumbass

[AlexWildeagle]

Acehilator, on 04 November 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

L2usecover.

Even Caustic Valley has it.

nice glib answer. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!!

Yesterday I was in many maps but caustic was classic. I was on the 3 line on the opposite end of the refinery. Me and an enemy hunchie were doin the death dance. We were behind those outcroppings behind the lrm boats view. Me slightly damaged takes a 30 second stream of missiles that completely annihilated me and then continued after my death.

So your qoute would more aptly state, "stay behind cover and don't engage the enemy"