44 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

ngl, on 15 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Direct X 11 wont bring any substancial enhancements to dx9. You guys forget that it has to stay compatible to clients who only can run dx9.

The only thing that will change visually, is most probably a ripple effect for when Mechs walk through water. Dont expect anything more.

No, that is incorrect, DX11 has much more to offer than just a ripple effect haha... if you want to learn the details about DX11 over DX9 then I suggest doing research on your own, but please do not post a naive statement like this without doing so.

DX11 uses many enhanced methods of tesselation and bump maps and blah blah that DX9 does not. Also, modern cards are designed to run on these common tesselation levels and on DX11 in general... so, yeh... DX11 can provide a significant boost in visuals and performance.

With your logic, why ever bother going past DX9? hahaha... the naivety of your statement is disturbing. Engineers spent all of their time creating DX11, even after DX10 mostly was a disappointment... just to add water ripples LULZ!

Forgot to add, assets for DX9 and DX11 are held seperately as far as data is concerned, correct me if I am wrong.

*Substantial

Edited by Zero Neutral, 15 December 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[CrazyCatDaddy]

Zero Neutral, on 15 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

DX11 uses many enhanced methods of tesselation and bump maps and blah blah that DX9 does not. Also, modern cards are designed to run on these common tesselation levels and on DX11 in general... so, yeh... DX11 can provide a significant boost in visuals and performance.

Tesselation is not availible on dx9

Zero Neutral, on 15 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

With your logic, why ever bother going past DX9? hahaha... the naivety of your statement is disturbing. Engineers spent all of their time creating DX11, even after DX10 mostly was a disappointment... just to add water ripples LULZ!

Forgot to add, assets for DX9 and DX11 are held seperately as far as data is concerned, correct me if I am wrong.

Apart from tesselation, dx9 is able to do anything dx11 can. But it needs more passes to do so. DX11 can bring a performance boost of up to 20% on certain situations compared to dx9. But MWO is a CPU limited game. Dont count on any FPS improvements due to DX11, because for most people the CPU will limit the frames.

And there are no different assets in terms of entities or textures between dx9 and 11. There is only a slight difference of how they are rendered.


Im not saying that DX11 cant do more. Im just saying that it will probably not have any visual differences.

Right now 99% of all games that come with an optional dx11 path are visually reduced to some tesselation in client based entities. I. e. ripple effects for water.

So it wont be the saviour for fps starved players. And it wont improve most of the visuals.

Edited by ngl, 15 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

ngl, on 15 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tesselation is not availible on dx9



Apart from tesselation, dx9 is able to do anything dx11 can. But it needs more passes to do so. DX11 can bring a performance boost of up to 20% on certain situations compared to dx9. But MWO is a CPU limited game. Dont count on any FPS improvements due to DX11, because for most people the CPU will limit the frames.

And there are no different assets in terms of entities or textures between dx9 and 11. There is only a slight difference of how they are rendered.


Im not saying that DX11 cant do more. Im just saying that it will probably not have any visual differences.

Right now 99% of all games that come with an optional dx11 path are visually reduced to some tesselation in client based entities. I. e. ripple effects for water.

So it wont be the saviour for fps starved players. And it wont improve most of the visuals.

I can state that during Closed Beta my performance was significantly improved over the current DX9 environment even though DX11 was not fully implemented and merely enabled. The visuals were also much better, since of course, I could run higher settings at better performance.

I think that you will be surprised when the time comes. But, then again, it will just be working back as it was intended in the first place

Edited by Zero Neutral, 15 December 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[Wixard]

Hopefully I can clear some of this up.

While windows 8 will get DX11.1 it doesn't matter what microsoft does. DX 11 and DX 11.1 are not substancially different. Windows 7 will not get DX 11.1. Much like DX 10 however, 10 and 10.1 are nearly identical and for market reasons developers will not pay much attention to it. NOTE: YOU CARD MUST SUPPORT DX 11.1 OR IT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU. (A DX 11 card does not support 11.1)


DX 11 does not matter when it comes to compatibility. Things like tesselation or other features just don't work on DX 9 assuming the game has all the proper assets.

However, if you're going to fully take advantage of DX 11 the game has to have it from the get go. Tesselation, probably the coolest DX 11 feature requires asset work. It's something that's done when the models are made. There are some features that can be "tacked on" but in the real world they're mostly fluff.

There's going to be very little benefit to ad DX 11 to the game. The main improvement behind it was suppossed to be faster rendering, but given how stagnated optimization is for it, it's fallen by the wayside. It was supposed to let you do more, faster, wiith the same hardware.

[Wixard]

ngl, on 15 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tesselation is not availible on dx9



Apart from tesselation, dx9 is able to do anything dx11 can. But it needs more passes to do so. DX11 can bring a performance boost of up to 20% on certain situations compared to dx9. But MWO is a CPU limited game. Dont count on any FPS improvements due to DX11, because for most people the CPU will limit the frames.

And there are no different assets in terms of entities or textures between dx9 and 11. There is only a slight difference of how they are rendered.


Im not saying that DX11 cant do more. Im just saying that it will probably not have any visual differences.

Right now 99% of all games that come with an optional dx11 path are visually reduced to some tesselation in client based entities. I. e. ripple effects for water.

So it wont be the saviour for fps starved players. And it wont improve most of the visuals.

I didn't read your post before I posted, but you're pretty much spot on. DX does require some changes to art assets to be fully realized, but for the client this doesn't matter.

DX 9 was by far the best version of DX microsoft ever released. It was pretty forward thinking, and that to this day DX 10 and !! both really fail to substantially imrpove on it is a testament to that.

[CrazyCatDaddy]

Zero Neutral, on 15 December 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

I can state that during Closed Beta my performance was significantly improved over the current DX9 environment even though DX11 was not fully implemented and merely enabled. The visuals were also much better, since of course, I could run higher settings at better performance.

If it truely gives an performance boost, then it means that the dx9 implementation of MWO is simply lousy. But remember that the closed beta client was on a different engine build then open beta. So you cant make any assumptions on DX11 performance on the live client.

Zero Neutral, on 15 December 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

I think that you will be surprised when the time comes. But, then again, it will just be working back as it was intended in the first place

I hope so. But most dx11 (and dx10) announcements never held up to the promises. Simply because of the fallback mechanics for dx9 compatibility and content that was primarily created for a dx9 enviroment.

Edited by ngl, 15 December 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Wixard]

ngl, on 15 December 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

If it truely gives an performance boost, then it means that the dx9 implementation of MWO is simply lousy. But remember that the closed beta client was on a different engine build then open beta. So you cant make any assumptions on DX11 performance on the live client.



I hope so. But most dx11 (and dx10) announcements never held up to the promises. Simply because of the fallback mechanics for dx9 compatibility and content that was primarily created for a dx9 enviroment.

Yea it's mostly been a bullet point for marketing. There's a very high probability that DX 9 was used because that's what sthe team was most familier with, and for the purposes of speed.

The best sign you can see from any development team is a faster pace of production. Whether that's art or new features. As time goes on they should become more comfortable with the tools and proces, and that should allow them to be more efficient. So it's possible that they could go back over everything and tidy it all up for DX1, but I think that only happens if the game is a runaway smash hit.

[CrazyCatDaddy]

DX11 Screenshots, forced via Custom config.cfg and custom made Shaders (that also work on dx9):

As you guys can see, no better textures or more Mech polys. The clear image quality resolutes due to better post processing shaders in the cfg. There are still a few bugs though: FPS go down to under 20 (4,4ghz I7 Quad, Geforce 680), the skybox is still brokenish and some textures wont load.

Edited by ngl, 18 December 2012 - 03:44 AM.

[CrazyCatDaddy]

go on, please report me...

1. No gameplay advancements whatsoever. Its just unplayable due to the low fps.
2. It doesnt even look better than dx9
3. Never said that those are my screenshots. I got them from a friend, who knows a friend

[Steel Will]

Your "friend" should run MSI Afterburner or something that will overlay the renderer being used to verify it's actually running in DX11. It's entirely possible it's still defaulting to DX9 despite any cfg changes. And if it's done right DX11 should bring performance increases on capable hardware. The devs have outright stated this and the reasoning behind it though I can't locate the post now. The big one being something about frame calls being shifted off the CPU I think.

[QuantumButler]

The same day they release Half Life 3.

[Rifter]

dont worry guys its slated for oct 18th

[Thorqemada]

Directx 11.1 will never reach volume...Win8 is another ME...its Dx11 that counts as it has the much bigger Userbase thanks to a successful Win7.

[AlexWildeagle]

just to add one more thing. DX11 uses more GPU then CPU, so that lump on your video card will actually serve a bigger purpose.

Edited by AlexWildeagle, 18 December 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Flapdrol]

Orkymedes, on 18 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

wtf dude, think next time before you type anything that comes to mind.

Edited by Stickjock, 18 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.
removed deleted content

[F lan Ker]

S!

Well for once I am better off with a 7xxx-series AMD card with full support for DirectX 11.1. AMD supports the features on hardware leve. It would be nice to get DirectX 11 for MWO, many games have worse performance under DirectX 9.0c on my card than on DirectX 11.

[Vassago Rain]

F lan Ker, on 18 December 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

S!

Well for once I am better off with a 7xxx-series AMD card with full support for DirectX 11.1. AMD supports the features on hardware leve. It would be nice to get DirectX 11 for MWO, many games have worse performance under DirectX 9.0c on my card than on DirectX 11.

Because the hardware was made for certain technologies that this game isn't using. Of course it won't work properly.

[Tzukasa]

ngl, on 15 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Direct X 11 wont bring any substancial enhancements to dx9. You guys forget that it has to stay compatible to clients who only can run dx9.

The only thing that will change visually, is most probably a ripple effect for when Mechs walk through water. Dont expect anything more.

Ppl that can only run dx9 need to get out of the gaming hobby esp competitive online pvp heh. Same with ppl that can only run 32bit. I'm sorry to say but it Really is holding back the game industry.

Also anyone complaining about performance needs to upgrade their comp, seriously... This game has some of the smoothest fps on highest settings I've seen in awhile, even while frapsing with highest graphic settings in heavy cmb. And I've run it on two dif systems, one 1st gen i7 with a gtx 580 and the other a 3rd gen i7m with a 660m (yes a laptop) and neither had a Single fps drop Ever.

[F lan Ker]

S!

True Vassago, but this game is basically the only one I have even slightest of problems. DirectX 11 alone would give more performance in my opinion based on experience with other games. While DirectX 9.0c is a good and a working solution I still prefer DirectX 11. Now if game devs could drop 32-bit and move on to 64-bit

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

Tzukasa, on 18 December 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

competitive

This game? Please don't make me laugh.