52 replies to this topic

[Tamerathon]

I hate to be the person to do this, but hit the Jenner with the nerf bat. The mech's high speed and fair amount of armor make it virtually impossible to kill with any sort of reliability. Right now, it just abuses every bug in the game:

Poor hit detection- Good luck hitting it as it just runs around in a circle at full speed.
Small Laser heat- Overheating isn't really an issue for them, and the heat to damage ratio for small lasers means that they can deliver a debilitating hit while avoiding damage.
Armor values- When you do hit a Jenner, it can shrug it off. A Gauss rifle shot to the leg? Doesn't cripple it. A salvo of three plus SSRM 2's? Lucky to get it yellow.

You just need to watch them from the spectator view to see, they're almost always the last mechs to go. I've seen them drag out fights against 4, 5 or more mechs just by running in circles. If you want to promote teamwork and the focus fire aspect of the game, you either need to fix all of the issues that the Jenner is exploiting, or nerf the Jenner.

[Magovai]

But that's what Jenners are all about! They are fast Recon. They always have been.

[Arcadinal]

Getting harrassed by Jenners while in a bigger mech can certainly get frustraiting, but that's exactly how I expect light units to fight. Jenners running distraction with their bigger siblings in support can be very effective if the other team lets itself get distracted and doesn't have a good strategy for dealing with it. If the team has its act together, their own light mechs combined with support from the heavies can put enemy light mechs down pretty fast.

I think the heart of the frustration sources from the fact that premade teams on voice chat have a much easier time coordinating this stuff succesfully, so when a match-made team gets thrown up against a pre-made, they get steamrolled. Usually when I see big mechs getting eaten alive by smaller ones, it's because the team is scattered and people aren't supporting each other, and yeah it's frustrating when that happens to you. On voice chat you can call for help and coordinate easilly, but it's hard to type to your team mates when you're under fire.

So, I think the above situation will become less frustrating as the match making system gets improved, so we don't have have random impromptu groups half made up of trial mechs getting thrown up against hard-core veteran teams. I'm sure the devs are aware of the issue, given the amount of venting in evidence in the forums. Be patient.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Magovai, on 04 November 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

But that's what Jenners are all about! They are fast Recon. They always have been.

But that's not what they are in MWO. They are the most dangerous mechs in the game. They are fast, ok, but they can take far too much of a beating. In tabletop, you'd have to roll dice to hit light mechs (which was difficult, because they were fast). If you succeeded, the whole damage of your weapon was applied to the target. The pilot had to be careful.

Now in MWO, you 'paint' your lasers over the whole armor of a fast moving target (and in thin air) with a burntime of about a second. They hardly take any damage, and don't even think about hitting them with anything else. This leads to light mechs 'binding' a whole lance for minutes. Light mechs become dreaded pests of the battlefield, they don't even have to be careful, as long as they are fast. This is stupid and will frustrate new players thoroughly. Because whatever you say about the Jenner, it may be effective but it's certainly not a cool mech.

[Gaan Cathal]

My personal issue with the Jenner, from the relatively short time I've been playing, is less a concern over the Jenner vs other weight classes (not that I'm saying there's no issue there, but it seems difficult to seperate from the borked netcode/hitreg) but the Jenner vs other lights, particularly the Raven (which yes, I drive). The Commando at least has some advantages - smaller silhouette, marginally faster, mobile arms, price difference (for all that's worth), still markedly inferior though, IMO. But the Raven has the same tonnage, the same armour, and as far as I can see no significant loadout advantage, whilst the Jenner sports a significantly higher top speed, a better profile and jump jets on all varients. My initial selection of the Raven was based on the apparent ECM leanings of the hull, but that mechanic is not live and will apparently be avaliable to all mechs when it is, so..

I guess the question is why is the Jenner the Light Mech, as opposed to a Light Mech? Am I missing something? If so, what?

[shabowie]

My two favorite mechs are the Jenner and the Atlas. Playing these vastly different designs enables me to allow for their strengths and weaknesses. When I'm in an Atlas I understand what a good Jen driver is trying to to do me and what I can do to put him or her off their game. When I'm in a Jenner I know where and how to move to render the Atlas as uncomfortable as possible. By understanding multiple mechs and their correct usage I become a better player

You should pursue the same understanding rather than making frankly absurd posts like this.

[Whiskydel]

As bought with standard loadout the Jenner is nothing special; yes it is fast but the4 med lasers and srm4 will mean a quick overheat! It's only when you spend a lot of credits/pilot xp on it you can make it into something very dangerous but even then it's not invulnerable - it just seems that way to new players or pilots of big/slow mechs but a concentrated barrage of lrms will take one down quickly .... is it worth it if he is running distraction for an assault lance....?

My point is that over time any mech can be improved and made much more effective through modification and/or xp but it takes quite a lot of game time to get. The real problem is the matchmaking that puts high value/highly modded mechs with skillful pilots working as a team against inexperienced pilots in stock mechs going solo - that's only going to end one way!

[Tamerathon]

That's the thing though. I understand the Jenner's attempts. Circle strafe. That's about it. Attack the rear armor where it's weaker. Exploit the slower turn speed of the heavier mechs. In table top, a heavy mech could spin in place and blast the Jenner. In real time though, it can't. This means the light mech has a significant advantage in being able to stay in the rear arc of the assault mech. A Jenner, even a well piloted one, should always be at a severe disadvantage against a heavier mech. They're not.
As a heavy mech, you want to cripple the Jenner's speed. Except, that's virtually impossible to do. If you've got a teammate, best you can hope for is they stay back, and stationary, and either lock streaks or place a well timed shot. The increased armor of the mechs makes it so you need to get off repeated good shots against a Jenner to cripple it's legs.

Like I said, the mech really just exploits everything wrong with the game at the moment (which, admittedly, isn't much).

[Grimmenstein]

Currently there are many things that have not been implemented that will effectively limit the power of the Jenner. For instance, the devs are working on collisions. The bane of Light mechs in general was being knocked to the ground, effectively rendering them immobile for 15 seconds. I am not certain when this mechanic will come back, but in MHO sooner would be better. Even when they would stand up 100 meters from where they fell, a concentrated blast from 3-4 mech would pretty much melt them. Before this last patch, I watched many times as a jenner would literally be reduced to nothing but a cockpit because it fell down 1 time.

Collisions are not the only method of dealing with these fast light mechs. A decent barrage of LRM fire can reduce these pests to so much iron filings in very short order.

These are not the only ways of dealing with these mechs by any means. Develope tactics that work, don't nerf a mech just because some mechanics have not been fully implemented yet. Also, I might suggest you work on your aim if you cant hit a moving target. Remember to lead the target, even when using lasers. You will find you hit more.

[Sandpit]

nerf an entire mech? ok........ I've honestly heard everything now. lol

The jenner is not invincible and they SHOULD out-turn and out-maneuver an Atlas any day of the week. That's kinda where the whole teamwork thing comes into play....
If I'm in a slow moving mech getting tore up by a Jenner I'm calling out to the light mechs on my side to get it off of me. Or at least another slow mech to turn around and shoot it while it's circling me. This usually results in one of two things:
1.) Little Jenner scurries off on its way
2.) Jenner gets stubborn and goes boom

[Agent CraZy DiP]

If you're worried about Jenners and Hit detection... I suggest you find a wall to park yourself up against and buy an LBX with a lot of ammo.

[Foxwalker]

I agree with both sides of this. Leave the Jenner alone. It is fine. AS someone already said, they are bringing back knock down and the game is still (I hate saying this) beta, so most likely the code for hitting what you shoot at will improve. Have faith!

I love this game!

[Kelderian]

Its not the Jenner that is the problem but the currently subpar netcode wich gives the Jenner the so called Lagshield and makes it next to impossible to hit one, especially with a higher ping.

I just hope that patches will remedy this issue.

[Tamerathon]

I put a Gauss Rifle slug into the right torso of one tonight. Didn't faze it.

[Grimmenstein]

I have talked to quite a few jenner pilots, and I use this Idea myself. Many are putting more armor on the rear. I use about a 50/50 split myself. So, yes your gauss round didn't do as much. I seem to get shot in the back more often, so I did something about it. Just good tactics, you should try some.

[Tamerathon]

Wasn't the rear. Front right torso. At range, he was spotting on River City. A Gauss slug should seriously maim a light mech. He was yellow'd from the hit. That's all.

[Sandpit]

If he has more armor in that spot than you did damage then what are you wanting? that has nothing to do with weight class

[Beo Vulf]

The current issue with the jenner is the lag shield that surrounds it making it impossible to hit from distances greater than 50 feet, and tough to hit at closer distances. LBX AC 10 seems to be about the only weapons that hits it consistantly at close range.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

My Atlas never leaves the Mechbay without it.

[LoneUnknown]

Jenner does not need nerfing.

Net code needs fixing.