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Ferro Armor: The Myth, The Legend, The Unfortunate Mathematics


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#21 Broceratops

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

This is a good thread and I wish I had found it before I spent 2 milliion switching back and forth on my atlas to see if FF or ES saved more weight.


Go with ES first in all cases. Then if you really need just a bit more room (like 2 or less tons), and somehow you have 14 free crits, hit that FF up. I only see this being applicable with mechs boating 1-crit space weapons.

#22 Hardplace

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

The point of FF Armor is if your mech does not have max armor already and you have 14 free crit spots, you could install FF and save a little bit of weight to add a bit more armor. Only on the biggest of mechs will it save you any tons really. It is not a space/weight saving measure rather a way to get a bit more armor if your not already maxed out.

#23 WVAnonymous

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

View PostBroceratops, on 05 November 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

This is a good thread and I wish I had found it before I spent 2 milliion switching back and forth on my atlas to see if FF or ES saved more weight. Go with ES first in all cases. Then if you really need just a bit more room (like 2 or less tons), and somehow you have 14 free crits, hit that FF up. I only see this being applicable with mechs boating 1-crit space weapons.


Just like I spent 1.3 million upgrading to double heat sinks that aren't double heat sinks... It can be frustrating.

#24 Zyllos

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostHardplace, on 05 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

The point of FF Armor is if your mech does not have max armor already and you have 14 free crit spots, you could install FF and save a little bit of weight to add a bit more armor. Only on the biggest of mechs will it save you any tons really. It is not a space/weight saving measure rather a way to get a bit more armor if your not already maxed out.


This is not true.

Ferro-Fiberous is used if you have 14 free critical slots and you already have Endo-Steel installed.

If you need more armor and you have not used Endo-Steel, then you will use Endo-Steel to gain that armor, not Ferro-Fiberous.

#25 MagicHamsta

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

FF is just fine.
My Cicada runs XL340, DHS, Endo, & FF without any problems & aye, the repair costs much less than my brawler atlas.

#26 dal10

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

View PostBrightCandle, on 05 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Its completely worthless, Endo steel is always better. Worse than that you can't realistically run Endo + FF at the same time so it turns out it has no value whatsoever at the moment.


I run triple streak 2 commando 200 xl and 10 heat sinks. 2 tons ammo however, so I run out easily...

note I use both endo and ferro

Edited by dal10, 05 November 2012 - 04:46 PM.


#27 Discordantone

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostNaros, on 05 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Are you serious? 12% extra is 12% extra. The more armour a mech has, the greater the amount of armour this bonus would grant.
And the larger the mech, the greater the amount of armour they generally have.



Your tone is not appreciated. Your claims that X is worthless, and that there is no reason to use Y on Z, because you say so, without anything to back it up is just rude and pointless.

Also, regarding your Location text; Who the heck cares? You're USian, we get it.


Let me rebold, and make this bigger:

You do not get 12% more armor, it weighs 12% less than standard armor, that is it.

This means that you get anywhere from 0.78 more tons, to 2.4 tons, dependent on mech, from lightest to heaviest

In reference to your "You're a USian" next time I see a statement from you like that, I'll report you for Nationalistic Racist remarks.

View PostHardplace, on 05 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

The point of FF Armor is if your mech does not have max armor already and you have 14 free crit spots, you could install FF and save a little bit of weight to add a bit more armor. Only on the biggest of mechs will it save you any tons really. It is not a space/weight saving measure rather a way to get a bit more armor if your not already maxed out.


Exactly, thus my statement, best for light mechs almost specifically.

Edited by Discordantone, 05 November 2012 - 08:58 PM.


#28 Dakota

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

I was able to increase my armor value with the weight savings and allow for 2 more small lasers by switching to FF and ES. But I agree, that for the larger mechs, the crit spaces are more valuable.

#29 AC Rimak

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostDakota, on 06 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I was able to increase my armor value with the weight savings and allow for 2 more small lasers by switching to FF and ES. But I agree, that for the larger mechs, the crit spaces are more valuable.

You should be using Endo to save weight at ALL times.
FF as it is right now should ONLY be used WITH ENDO to get maximum additional weight.

For example the same commando:
FF use - 12% of armor savings is 6.5*0.12 = 0.78t gain
Endo use - 5% of total mech weight 25*0.05 = 1.25t gain

Now the same calculations for Atlas:
FF - 20*0.12 = 2.4t gain
Endo - 100*0.05 = 5t gain

#30 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

This almost screams for a bad advice marauder meme

"Equip Ferro Armour and XL Engine"
...
"So you can make more money suicide-farming"

(It's even double bad advice - you won't make mony, and you shouldn't even be suicide farming to begin with! So it's basically 1.4 worse advice than usual!)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 06 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.


#31 Discordantone

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:25 AM

I missed where someone mentioned suicide farming, but I'm going to like your post -anyway- because the team I drop with have been killing 'afk' Yin Lo's and those guys that (try to) just run straight out of bounds :(

Edited by Discordantone, 06 November 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#32 Hersaint

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

Holy Shiite. The more I read about the upgrades the more confused I get. Come on PGI clean up the tooltip advice and explanantion of your upgrades so normal IQ, part-time gamers can have fun upgrading thier BFRs (big truckin robots).

#33 Kerzin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

It’s fairly simple TBH. Standard armor gives you 32 pt’s per ton over 11 area on your Mech. FF armor gives you the same level of protection but only weighs .88 tons to do so.

Obviously you can chose to use the weight savings in other ways but if you put the saved weight back into armor you’ll be getting 35.84 points per ton so the Jenner with 6.5 tons of standard armor has 208 points to spread around 11 area but with 6.5 tone of FF you get 232.96 point to spread around up to the max your chassis can cary obviously.

It’s not a great advantage but it can help if you’re willing to lose the crit. spaces and can pay the fright on the maintenance.

Edited by Kerzin, 06 November 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#34 Hardplace

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

Having experience with the previous computer games and TT has been such an advantage it is not even funny, PGI right now seems to be relying on the community for explaining equipment and helping people figure this stuff out... We just need to start a movement or something to get more new people reading the forums until PGI gets the ingame stuff set up.

#35 3rdworld

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

View PostKerzin, on 06 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

It’s fairly simple TBH. Standard armor gives you 32 pt’s per ton over 11 area on your Mech. FF armor gives you the same level of protection but only weighs .88 tons to do so.

Obviously you can chose to use the weight savings in other ways but if you put the saved weight back into armor you’ll be getting 35.84 points per ton so the Jenner with 6.5 tons of standard armor has 208 points to spread around 11 area but with 6.5 tone of FF you get 232.96 point to spread around up to the max your chassis can cary obviously.

It’s not a great advantage but it can help if you’re willing to lose the crit. spaces and can pay the fright on the maintenance.


They rounded to 36 in MWO.

#36 Keramane

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:16 AM

Tangential question: As of yesterday's patch, I've noticed that my Endo Catapault seems to drop faster than my FF Catapault of the same armor score. Due to my build, the greater percentage of the slots taken by my Endo cat are on my arms whereas my FF cat lost mostly torso. Does having slots designated to structure on an easier to hit zone cause more damage as opposed to having slots assigned to armor instead?

#37 Discordantone

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostKeramane, on 07 November 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Tangential question: As of yesterday's patch, I've noticed that my Endo Catapault seems to drop faster than my FF Catapault of the same armor score. Due to my build, the greater percentage of the slots taken by my Endo cat are on my arms whereas my FF cat lost mostly torso. Does having slots designated to structure on an easier to hit zone cause more damage as opposed to having slots assigned to armor instead?


No, for some reason Ballistics are doing damage, armor or not... I've tested out even machine guns so far, and have managed to rip weapons out, and even blow ammo, without even really denting their armor. Looks like someone made an attempt at armor penetration and seriously overcompensated for something.

#38 Victor Morson

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:47 AM

View PostBrightCandle, on 05 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Its completely worthless, Endo steel is always better. Worse than that you can't realistically run Endo + FF at the same time so it turns out it has no value whatsoever at the moment.


You can on light 'mechs, effectively too. They're the only ones that benefit generally, though.*

* Very fast mediums might as well. I suspect we'll see some Endo + DHS + Ferro builds of the Centurion D.

#39 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:53 AM

View PostBrightCandle, on 05 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Its completely worthless, Endo steel is always better. Worse than that you can't realistically run Endo + FF at the same time so it turns out it has no value whatsoever at the moment.


Not true, but it is very build specific, and Endo is going to be the better choice 99% of the time. An example of Ferro being useful is when you are at max tonnage for class, and still have internals, but your armor is not maxed out. Now you can "buff" your armor. It IS more expensive to fix, but sometimes that extra few points is the difference between failure and victory.

Also in many 50 ton or lighter chassis, it is feasible to use BOTH, as most can't come close to filling all their crit slots (The exception being the popular CheezeBack laser variants, that need all the DHS or HS loving they can get. Darn, no free lunch for an annoying build.)

I Run a CN9-D with Endo, Ferro, DHS AND and XL engine. Mostly for the lulz, but it still has space to pack a Gauss Rifle w/3 tons of ammo and 2 medium pulse lasers (ala 3050 Yen-Lo-Wang). Fast and tough, has taken it's fair share of Atlases. On the downside, the critter ain't cheap, nor cheap to refit between matches, but I am still making money, not losing, so I ain't complaining.

Might drop the Ferro and the Gauss for a pair of Artemis equipped 6 packs tho... and a bigger engine! XD

#40 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:53 AM

I said when these things were new that Endo is much better. It gives more unlocked weight for ANY Mech at the same crit cost. There really is no reason to use Ferro currently. It's just an inferior version of Endo Steel. Same crit cost; less unlocked weight.





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