218 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

Proper and well designed mechs are supposed to be able to fire alpha strikes! Continuously and without penalty! Don't give me that weaksauce "deal with it" line, if the devs want to make a Battletech game, they should follow the Battletech rules.
Right now, they are not. Sure they are making adjustments for realtime video game implementation, but this is a bridge too far.

Edited by Diablobo, 06 November 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Proper and well designed mechs are supposed to be able to fire alpha strikes! Don't give me that weaksauce "deal with it" line, if the devs want to make a Battletech game, they should follow the Battletech rules.
Right now, they are not. Sure they are making adjustments for realtime video game implementation, but this is a bridge too far.

Not in this game they aren't. They are following BT rules. BT not equal TT. TT is an abstraction of BT, thus this is there interpretation of that abstraction.

If you want TT, go play TT. If you want a well balanced (balance is being worked on) and thoughtful shooter play this.

Edited by Noth, 06 November 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Diablobo]

Yes, you are right, this is no Battletech game. I'll just run around with my two medium lasers with 20 heatsinks and face mech explosion. WOOHOO.
Sounds like enough to make someone not want to play the game, or maybe the devs can make things better. Let's just leave things the way they are....screw the gamers.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yes, you are right, this is no Battletech game. I'll just run around with my two medium lasers with 20 heatsinks and face mech explosion. WOOHOO.
Sounds like enough to make someone not want to play the game, or maybe the devs can make things better. Let's just leave things the way they are....screw the gamers.

This is a mechwarrior game following BT lore. It is not a TT game. I suggest you realize the difference between BT and TT.

[wanderer]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Thank you for the mention of the Tactical Operations advanced heat rules, wanderer. I have not used them, so was not familiar with them.
Having read them, I do notice the system damage possibilities. The only problem is, one point of internal damage distributed randomly is not going to cause a mech to explode or die, unless it happens to be a gauss rifle, or the mech has already sustained two engine hits.
Having system failures from high heat levels should not be that hard to implement, and would provide a fair warning of impending destruction. Right now, the high heat levels cause mechs to completely blow up and happen just as quickly and as often as a mech with ammo. This is something that should be fixed I think.

Well, in TT one point of internal damage WOULD do the trick. Also, it only technically takes four damage, if you have max critical damage to a vital item every time.

Like your engine. Or gyro. Or cockpit. Yes, literally facemelting heat.

Also the current death animation always involves some kind of "boom" if the section takes lethal damage- even if said damage doesn't actually normally deplete the location's internals, to show that it's been disabled. It's more a visual for others to say "Hey, you took a component section out!". If the graphics were more complex for a death-by-heat, it'd just smoke and keel over.

Edited by wanderer, 06 November 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[wanderer]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yes, you are right, this is no Battletech game. I'll just run around with my two medium lasers with 20 heatsinks and face mech explosion. WOOHOO.
Sounds like enough to make someone not want to play the game, or maybe the devs can make things better. Let's just leave things the way they are....screw the gamers.

Actually, in Solaris VII- style rules, you could quite literally pull this off. Twin ML's are 4x6 = 24 heat, and if you rapid-fire them, the twin lasers not only will produce more heat, you can actually destroy them doing it. MWO ML's are actually 4x8 = 32 heat, which would put you at the TT equivalent of 3 points of overheat per shot, worse if rapid-fired (as we certainly do in MWO!).

Eventually, that's enough to reach ammo explosion or even system failures if you hold down the trigger.

[Diablobo]

BT is not TT? Since when? Last I heard, Battletech is, has been, and always will be a tabletop game with a very specific set of rules. Clearly MWO is not one of the games that wants to emulate those rules, so they might as well abandon the pretense.

[Chrithu]

No one gives a **** about TT.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

BT is not TT? Since when? Last I heard, Battletech is, has been, and always will be a tabletop game with a very specific set of rules. Clearly MWO is not one of the games that wants to emulate those rules, so they might as well abandon the pretense.

Battletech is an entire universe or novels, games (not all of which that follow anything close to TT rules and can even be blatantly against them) and short stories. Things that often happen in the stories and novels often can't happen in TT. TT is a set of rules meant to be an abstraction of what happen in a battle. Being an abstraction, what actually happens in battle is up for how the person wants to interpret it.

So please realize the difference between BT and TT.

[Diablobo]

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it sure as heck better not grow fangs and try and bite someone's head off like a bear. MWO and the heat system are the bear to the TT duck.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it sure as heck better not grow fangs and try and bite someone's head off like a bear. MWO and the heat system are the bear to the TT duck.

Good thing this isn't TT then.

[Diablobo]

Then why use TT weapon damage and heat values? Quit trying to have Gauss rifle weapons in a small laser heat system .

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

Then why use TT weapon damage and heat values? Quit trying to have Gauss rifle weapons in a small laser heat system .

They used them as a starting point. That is all. Further tweaking will continue to happen to the numbers.

Edited by Noth, 06 November 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Diablobo]

That is all that needs to happen- a simple tweaking of the numbers.
See? That wasn't so hard.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

That is all that needs to happen- a simple tweaking of the numbers.
See? That wasn't so hard.

Actually no it's not. There was a great devs post about why making this a TT game simply won't work and how tweaking numbers isn't enough. The game has to fit the devs vision. Making heat trivial is counter to that, and counter to much of the lore where pilots have to where cooling suits, end up pushing their mechs ao hard they begin cooking themselves, and where heat management is an issue.

Edited by Noth, 06 November 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[Diablobo]

With revised numbers heat would never be trivial. Mechs would still not be allowed to alpha strike a bunch of ERPPCs without proper heat capacity. As it stands now, there is no amount of heat capacity that even allows 2 med lasers to fire. That is a broken system, and no amount of "developer vision" is going to gloss over this glaring flaw.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

With revised numbers heat would never be trivial. Mechs would still not be allowed to alpha strike a bunch of ERPPCs without proper heat capacity. As it stands now, there is no amount of heat capacity that even allows 2 med lasers to fire. That is a broken system, and no amount of "developer vision" is going to gloss over this glaring flaw.

No that is a good thing. It means that heat is not trivial. If you could alpha strike non stomp with two medium laser heat would be trivial. To bring higher heat weapons in line you change those numbers, not the entire heat system.

[Roland]

Who gives a crap whether it happens in the TT game?

Sorry chief, you can't override your shutdown as much as you want. That's just how it works.

Your mech isn't "exploding". It's that when you are running on override, the excessive heat is damaging the internal components of the mech... Which makes complete and total sense, because that's why you have an auto shutdown.

If it didn't damage the mech, or the pilot, then the mech wouldn't have a heat limit.

If nothing else, at some point the life support systems would fail and overheating a mech would kill the pilot.

Regardless. This is how it works. Just don't mash the override key. Derp.

Quote

With revised numbers heat would never be trivial. Mechs would still not be allowed to alpha strike a bunch of ERPPCs without proper heat capacity. As it stands now, there is no amount of heat capacity that even allows 2 med lasers to fire. That is a broken system, and no amount of "developer vision" is going to gloss over this glaring flaw.

What are you even talking about? There are tons of mechs that I run with more than 2 medium lasers.

[Noth]

Roland, on 06 November 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

What are you even talking about? There are tons of mechs that I run with more than 2 medium lasers.

He's mad he can't just hold down the fire button and fire endlessly without fear.

[Sarevos]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

With revised numbers heat would never be trivial. Mechs would still not be allowed to alpha strike a bunch of ERPPCs without proper heat capacity. As it stands now, there is no amount of heat capacity that even allows 2 med lasers to fire. That is a broken system, and no amount of "developer vision" is going to gloss over this glaring flaw.

Do you know how a fusion engine would work? no body else post to him til he answers this then you may unleash your fury "Spehs Muhrine" style

Edited by Sarevos, 06 November 2012 - 07:01 AM.