218 replies to this topic

[Tarman]

This isn't a debate; it's how it is in the game. The fact that it's backed by gameplay and lore reasons just makes it more solid. Unless you're going to go work for PGI then live with it. Or die with it as the case may be. Or you could just watch your heat a bit better.

Forums, where people go when they can't get on the debate team.

[Diablobo]

The fact that one point of damage can be done to mech's systems does not change my assertion that mechs should not completely blow up from high heat levels without any ammo to explode. This internal damage that you mistakenly claimed happens already does not change the point of the original post.

An extended shutdown is going to happen WAY before a mech is completely destroyed, and only an extremely unlikely set of dice rolls is going to allow three engine hits or two gyro hits that would cause the mech to be destroyed before it shuts down irrevocably.

[Diablobo]

The point is, mechs that overheat without ammo do not explode like mechs with ammo. It is as simple as that, and any game that treats mechs without ammo in the same way as those without is a flawed game. It's a simple fix, and the extended period of inactivity that would be imposed by overly-hot mechs is more than enough of a deterrent to those that would do such a thing. One thing that is imbalanced and less fun however, is to make the mech explode completely.

[SHORTZ]

aren't battlemechs supposed to have fusion reactors as engines though? so it would kinda make sense that if you keep firing lasers and overriding the shutdown, eventually it could get hot enough for the reactor to have a meltdown right? that would cause a significant explosion...

If anything i think if you overheat with lasers it should have a bigger explosion, like the Mechwarrior5 teaser trailer when the atlas goes critical Like a massive nuclear explosion

Edited by SHORTZ, 06 November 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Krivvan]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

It is as simple as that, and any game that treats mechs without ammo in the same way as those without is a flawed game.completely.

This game does treat mechs with ammo differently from mechs without ammo. I don't think you understand how overheat actually works in this game. You don't override and then instantly blow up, ammo or not. You gradually take critical hits all over your mech until you are destroyed somehow, possibly by an ammo explosion.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

The fact that one point of damage can be done to mech's systems does not change my assertion that mechs should not completely blow up from high heat levels without any ammo to explode. This internal damage that you mistakenly claimed happens already does not change the point of the original post.

An extended shutdown is going to happen WAY before a mech is completely destroyed, and only an extremely unlikely set of dice rolls is going to allow three engine hits or two gyro hits that would cause the mech to be destroyed before it shuts down irrevocably.

What, again you are showing your inability to look at how the system works. It doesn't just do one damage, it does continual damage to your entire mech. Weapons and ammo almost always go before the engine,a nd that is only if you override.

Again you also ignore that there are rules in the BT universe facilitating reactors exploding from overheating. Extended shut down is when the mech sees that the containment field can no longer function and permanently shuts down until that breach can be repaired. However, that sometimes is not possible depending on eth speed of the failure. The faster the failure the less likely it is to safely shutdown without explosion. If it could always shut down safely you wouldn't have the lore stating that explosions can happen and you wouldn't have rules facilitating it.

It's the way it is and isn't changing. If you don't like it either get over it or go back to the TT game with barebones rules.

[Gorith]

Perhaps not Diablobo. But its for game balance and even if it was "perma-shutdown" would it really matter you would be out of the fight so whats the difference aside a Perma-shutdown mech that counted as still in the game people could sit and strip the armor off and various limbs off you to give you and even higher repair bill.

If you are trying to argue that you should be able to run above 100% heat for an extended duration it's not going to happen for balance reasons.

If you are arguing "Because it's TT" Also balance changes when you adapt it to a realtime medium. From my understanding the very first alpha builds used TT stats almost to the letter and it was horribly unbalanced.

You are just going to have to accept that certain things need to vary from TT to make for balanced gameplay.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 06 November 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

The point is, mechs that overheat without ammo do not explode like mechs with ammo. It is as simple as that, and any game that treats mechs without ammo in the same way as those without is a flawed game. It's a simple fix, and the extended period of inactivity that would be imposed by overly-hot mechs is more than enough of a deterrent to those that would do such a thing. One thing that is imbalanced and less fun however, is to make the mech explode completely.

This was proven wrong with both TT rules, lore, and physics. Stop being so stubborn and actually read what is told to you.

[DrxAbstract]

SHORTZ, on 06 November 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

aren't battlemechs supposed to have fusion reactors as engines though? so it would kinda make sense that if you keep firing lasers and overriding the shutdown, eventually it could get hot enough for the reactor to have a meltdown right? that would cause a significant explosion...

If anything i think if you overheat with lasers it should have a bigger explosion, like the Mechwarrior5 teaser trailer when the atlas goes critical and goes nuclear

No. Fusion reactors are different from Fission (Nuclear reactors). They cannot 'meltdown'. The only explosions a Fusion reactor can cause is if the vacuum chamber were breached and air from outside rushes in, gets superheated in a matter of nanoseconds, expands and turns the reactor chamber into a beer can with an m40 inside. Or there's too large a reaction going on for the reaction chamber to contain in which case the mech will literally explode in a thermal detonation. Either only causes minor devastation to the immediate area - and a pretty show to watch. This is already addressed in TT lore, by the way.

[SHORTZ]

hang on im confused so what type of engines do mechs have then fission or fusion?

[DrxAbstract]

SHORTZ, on 06 November 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

hang on im confused so what type of engines do mechs have then fission or fusion?

You sir are beginning to annoy me.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Actually in TT u have to override shutdown at 5 exceed heat(i think)

[SHORTZ]

dude clearly i dont know what im talking about so if you could just explain it instead of being passive agressive that would be way more helpful...

[Havyek]

Please don't feed the troll.

[Noth]

SHORTZ, on 06 November 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

dude clearly i dont know what im talking about so if you could just explain it instead of being passive agressive that would be way more helpful...

He just did.

[Diablobo]

Noth, on 06 November 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

This was proven wrong with both TT rules, lore, and physics. Stop being so stubborn and actually read what is told to you.

These so-called engine explosion TT rules are pretty weak. Like I said, one point of internal damage randomly distributed in the mech is not going to make it explode. Your TT rule argument doesn't apply.

As for the lore, since I'm from Missouri, you're going to have to "show me" an instance in the lore where a mech without ammo has blown up from high heat levels. I'll save you the trouble. It's not there.

The physics part is pretty straightforward. Do you mean to say that a reactor is going to explode when the design of reactors is completely different from that of bombs? Someone needs a refresher course in short-bus science.

Like I said, you are the stubborn one who is clinging to an indefensible position.

[DrxAbstract]

But i just bought this bag of delicious troll foodstuffs...

[SHORTZ]

Well can someone just explain it to me then? i thought that was the whole point of these forums... i was born in the 90s so i sincerely apologise to everyone out there that i didnt grow up playing TT so my battletech lore isnt up to scratch, but perhaps if people can tell me more about it then ill learn some of it and not have to ask such ignorant questions

I wasnt even trolling, i legitimately want to know more about the lore

Edited by SHORTZ, 06 November 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Battletech Wiki is your friend... Go now, young one; indulge your gray matter.

[Naeron66]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

The bottom line is, the devs have adopted an almost complete translation of the tabletop rules to this video game.
The arbitrary and rule-breaking decision to have mechs not carrying ammo explode from overheating is not supported by the tabletop rules, and it is not supported by physics.

And you know the physics of fusion engines in an imaginary universe?

A failure of the containment would release high temperature plasma which would certainly be of sufficient temperature to vapourise at least the surface layers of internal components, that would result in an increase in pressure and and an "explosion" similar to a boiler explosion as mentioned in the wiki.

Heat beyond the design limits would compromise the components that control the fusion reaction if the pilot kept overriding the controls that would normally shut it down, that is why the shutdown is in place after all.