218 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

Noth, on 05 November 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Really. From the wiki:



Over revving one of these engines creates excessive heat which causes failure. So yes a mech can be destroyed by over heating.

Where is this found in any Battletech game book? Show me the mechanic or rule that makes this happen and how it is applied during gameplay.

[Calmon]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The consequence of not carrying ammo should be that mechs should be able to run hotter for longer than those do carry ammo. Of course, at a certain point, the mech will shut down, but it is not possible to destroy a mech by overheating.

So 100% will shut down and let you overwrite.

When you overwrite Ammo may explode and there is another limit of lets say 150% which shut down without the chance to overwrite again?

From a logic point it would just mean the heat max of a mech without ammo is just 150% instead of 100%, right?

Well I see your point but I'm not sure its better to have energy weapons balanced on 100% max than rebalancing everything to take 150% in account... it would also push pure energy mechs. If you use different weapons types (rockets, balistic) you don't have this advantage! All in all its nothing I would support because balancing is complicate enough. We don't need more 'specific cases' to take into this calculation.

Edited by Calmon, 05 November 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Where is this found in any Battletech game book? Show me the mechanic or rule that makes this happen and how it is applied during gameplay.

It's not gameplay, it's lore taken directly from flavor text. By making this happen in game the gameplay is actually closer to what the BT universe is actually like. TT is only an abstraction of what happens in battle and doesn't cover everything that is possible in the universe.

[Ragor]

The engine explodes? How do you know? Do you see/hear any explosions when that happens? I don't.

What if the pilot simply dies due to being fried or gets uncoscious? Pilots wear cooling vests for a reason.
Did you ever read the novels?

Edited by Ragor, 05 November 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

It is certainly possible to destroy a mech by overheating. The pilot can either disable the safety mechanisms designed to prevent it, or override them entirely. Any disruption of the containment mechanism will either shutdown the engine or cause it to become unstable, resulting in plasma coming into contact with the supercooled enclosure which results in a rather nasty thermal exchange which will kill the reaction.

You can postulate, however, that if a mech is running hot enough the supercooled mechanism can fail before the magnetic containment which means the plasma melts right through the enclosure, breaking the vacuum seal and causing a thermal reaction with the outside air... BOOM.

[Diablobo]

When a mech with ammo explodes from high heat levels at the same rate and probability as one without, there is a problem. The mech without ammo should be less likely to explode as one that does have ammo.
Even if it was provided for in the Battletech rules system (It is not), as it stands now, a mech without ammo will explode just as soon and often as one without.

[Synra]

I can't believe this is such a long debate.

Any piece of machinery will die if overheated. Try running your PC without fans and heatsinks. Your CPU alone will last less than a second before cooking iteself into uselesness.

Battlemechs heat up rapidly. The reason it has an automatic shutdown, both in MWO and in tabletop is to prevent it from reaching the critical point where the engine simply dies and stops functioning. If you override the emergency shutdown and allow the heat to build even further, yes, you will kill your engine, and thus kill your whole mech until it is repaired.

If overheating the engine didn't kill the mech, then there wouldn't be a point to managing the heat scale in the first place.

[Kousagi]

In the game the engine does not explode ever from overheating. If you overheat normally then you just shutdown, but if you override a shutdown and maintain 100% heat then your internal structure starts to take damage. Think of it as, your mech is so hot at this point that its structure is melting. The internal damage ya get from keeping 100% heat can pop your cockpit, CT or any other parts of your mech, so even if the engine itself does not blow up, your mech can't exactly work if the engine drops out the bottom of your mech cause all the points that its connected to melted.

And before anyone says internal structure can't melt by heat, Lasers, all I have to say.

Edited by Kousagi, 05 November 2012 - 05:27 AM.

[The Herrick]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The consequence of not carrying ammo should be that mechs should be able to run hotter for longer than those do carry ammo. Of course, at a certain point, the mech will shut down, but it is not possible to destroy a mech by overheating.

The problem is in TT you have far more penalties for running hot, even if you don't hit the 100% threshold when the shutdown kicks in. MWO does not have any of these, until it does TT rules and lore must take a back seat to balance.

Currently once you breach 100% heat all parts of the mech's internals steadily take damage until there is a critical failure in one of the locations that marks the mech as 'dead' (Engine or cockpit heal reduced to zero or both legs HP reduced to zero). No matter the cause of death the visual effect is the same. If you take out both legs the mech will still display a small grey explosion from the CT and fall over.

[Havyek]

I think this thread should be locked as it's nothing but another "Boohoo the game doesn't act EXACTLY as it does in Table Top QQ."

[DrxAbstract]

BDU Havoc, on 05 November 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

I think this thread should be locked as it's nothing but another "Boohoo the game doesn't act EXACTLY as it does in Table Top QQ."

I killed you in Mech2 and by god Havoc i'll do it here if you dont let these people whine! As long as they're focusing on this and not DHS, SSRMs or what have you then it's just fine!

Edited by DrxAbstract, 05 November 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Noth]

Diablobo, on 05 November 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

When a mech with ammo explodes from high heat levels at the same rate and probability as one without, there is a problem. The mech without ammo should be less likely to explode as one that does have ammo.
Even if it was provided for in the Battletech rules system (It is not), as it stands now, a mech without ammo will explode just as soon and often as one without.

Mechs with ammo, will have the ammo, on average, cook off and do damage before the engine blows. You aren't showing any knowledge of what happens in this game at all.

[Krivvan]

So much misinformation here about how the game's heat system works.

If you do not override the shutdown, nothing bad happens. The ONLY thing that happens if you reach 100% heat is that you shut down until your heat lowers. Your ammo does not cook off, you do not take overheat damage (unless maybe you went way beyond 100%), nothing.

If you do override the shutdown then you slowly and randomly take damage in all of your components' internal structures. Damage will accumulate until you lose components or die. This is also where I believe actually cooking off the ammo can occur.

[AlexEss]

So they take out the CT explosion and instead introduce a complete electrical shutdown due to cables melting... The effect is the same, you are out of the game and will have the same repair cost.

Sure it would help immersion but honestly.. we have bigger fish to fry right now

[BeteNoire]

So basically you've taken issue to an ingame mechanic because it doesn't mirror the tabletop RAW, and won't change your opinion because it's not RAW?

Perhaps you should stop overriding and alpha striking with all the medium lasers. Or just deal with it.

[Roughneck45]

Its because they are trying to simulate you melting your pilot in the chair, which would also make the mech useless. Exploding is the closest thing they can do right now.

[darkthought]

I'd rather have my engine blow and have to repair it, than having a permanent shutdown in the caldera, and then having some rather mean people disassemble my mech around me while I sit there like a lump with their large lasers.

HAHA! SWAYBACK OVERHEATED IN THE CALDERA! *Entire team circles disabled mech and takes off its arms, side torsos, and legs*

[Noth]

darkthought, on 05 November 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

I'd rather have my engine blow and have to repair it, than having a permanent shutdown in the caldera, and then having some rather mean people disassemble my mech around me while I sit there like a lump with their large lasers.

HAHA! SWAYBACK OVERHEATED IN THE CALDERA! *Entire team circles disabled mech and takes off its arms, side torsos, and legs*

There was a video of a premade basically doing this to a dev on Forest colony. Poor dev only had cockpit, center torso and one leg as they all circled him.

[Tennex]

i don't have problem with override explosion. \oly problem is it explodes when it doesnt even shut down

[Hipsu]

I want to know: In MWO does a mech carrying ammo explode more likely from overheat than a Mech without? Because the ammo should explode before the engine. I think that's the core issue here.