150 replies to this topic

[DJMarine]

We all know right now that the matchmaking system isn't advanced enough to properly handle premade teams. More often than not a premade of at least 5, sometimes even four is enough to easily turn every match into an uneventful pubstomp. Especially considering that there's no in-game voip atm creating a huge limitation and disadvantage for the opposing pub team.

As easy as it is to blame PGI for releasing an open beta without a proper matchmaking system, the community can just as easily alleviate the problem on their own. I know clans (corps) want to play with each other and that's a big part of the game, but can't that be held off until you guys are getting even matches?

Is it even fun to run through games so easily, or is it more important to farm stats and xp to some of you guys?

Right now I think it's important that corps consider what's best for the growth of the game and not ruin the experience for new players. As good as the gameplay is, it can become rather pointless when you're constantly matched against premades and have next to no chance at winning. Of course, I don't mind losing matches, as long as they're fun. What's fun is an even and challenging match, not being focused down by 8 mechs while your team is scattered all across the map and trying to 1v1. There's going to be a lot of players who simply won't want to ruin their stats and/or constantly being on the wrong end of the repair/economy.

IMO, the middle ground for the time being would be to group with only two or three of your buddies.

So, just keep the big picture in mind when you're grouping with your corp then boasting at the end of the game after beating an uncoordinated force.

Edited by JayTac, 05 November 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Taryys]

First, I think it should be pointed out that you are not going against premades as much as people may think they are.
Paul has already mentioned this. Getting a beat down does not mean premade.

With as much AFK and Suiciding as their is going on all it takes is 1 mech loss to create a cascading affect that guarantees a loss. All it takes is a few mechs focusing fire to make a big difference is the outcome of the game.

We do not like PUG stomping. We do not boast (at least here in the Shieldwall). We do not look forward to it. We want some hot pay-per-view premade-on-premade action where there is an epic standoff in the end precusored by a delicate game of cat an mouse.

People playing in PUG matches need to learn team work. Superior teamwork will win every match.

Yes, the Match Maker is broken, we do not have PUG integration for C3, and no robust text chat option.
When these things are fixed, especially the MM and C3 the PUG world will change drastically. I do PUG and I feel your pain.
With this Wed's patch premades will be limited to 4 on a side with the rest being filled in with PUGs, hopefully with that things will be better and PUGs can work with the premades to learn and win.

Just a few rambling thoughts.

Edited by Taryys, 05 November 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Taryys]

oh, and [Guide] Playing with Friends, Groups, and Teams

[DJMarine]

Taryys, on 05 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

First, I think it should be pointed out that you are not going against premades as much as people may think they are.
Paul has already mentioned this. Getting a beat down does not mean premade.

I agree, and I don't want to imply that either. But, when you have 5+ mechs moving together, focusing the same target, and someone boasts about their corp at the end of the match, that's a great indication that you went against a premade.

[Wildcat]

I have not Played since the first day or 2 of Open Beta, I dont have fun losing 12-20 games in a row... I am waiting for the Matchmaker Fixes

I dont care that 2 weeks of free premium days go to waste, it is not worth playing MWO right now for me, until fixes are made.... which should have been made in Closed Beta....


I dont care what Paul says, I know a Premade Team when I see one.... the Tactics in play by Premade Teams can easily be identified early in game...

[Taryys]

Most definitely... they are ***** as well. Not all Corps are *****. I know it only takes one or two experiences to sour ya, but they are the unfortunate asshat exceptions.

I am not sure if reporting them would be worthwhile or effective, but you could try it. I would really have to take a look at the T&C.


With that being said you may like this other post of mine : Stop Hazing and Start Raising...

JayTac, on 05 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

I agree, and I don't want to imply that either. But, when you have 5+ mechs moving together, focusing the same target, and someone boasts about their corp at the end of the match, that's a great indication that you went against a premade.

[Frosted]

Wildcat, on 05 November 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

I dont care what Paul says, I know a Premade Team when I see one.... the Tactics in play by Premade Teams can easily be identified early in game...

Tell me about those premade tactics

[Sandpit]

JayTac, on 05 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

I agree, and I don't want to imply that either. But, when you have 5+ mechs moving together, focusing the same target, and someone boasts about their corp at the end of the match, that's a great indication that you went against a premade.

Not really. I announce my unit when I pug. That's just unit promotion. I'm just tired of hearing about the big bad boogeyman that premades are. Most of the time players are getting rolled because they aren't that good. It's not that they can't be it's that they're learning the game and playing against people who are already experienced.

[Lin Shai]

JayTac, on 05 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

As easy as it is to blame PGI for releasing an open beta without a proper matchmaking system, the community can just as easily alleviate the problem on their own. I know clans (corps) want to play with each other and that's a big part of the game, but can't that be held off until you guys are getting even matches?

The same argument can be made for the opposite.

There is zero barrier for entry in using TS3. You jump on a public TS3 server, you join a group of random people, you play the game.

You could even completely sidestep TS3 and just make friends on the forum, use the friends list in game, and use the (semi-integrated) C3 VOIP.

You're basically saying that because one group of people doesn't want to use VOIP, the other group shouldn't. I fail to see where one group has any more claim to how you should be playing than the other.

And that's even ignoring the (correct) points made by Taryys in the post above.

[Taryys]

We also generally announce ourselves directly or indirectly:

Skjaldborff!!!
MEAD!!
We are here for your mead and your wenches, but mostly your MEAD!!!

etc..

[Corbon Zackery]

Taryys, on 05 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

First, I think it should be pointed out that you are not going against premades as much as people may think they are.
Paul has already mentioned this. Getting a beat down does not mean premade.

With as much AFK and Suiciding as their is going on all it takes is 1 mech loss to create a cascading affect that guarantees a loss. All it takes is a few mechs focusing fire to make a big difference is the outcome of the game.

We do not like PUG stomping. We do not boast (at least here in the Shieldwall). We do not look forward to it. We want some hot pay-per-view premade-on-premade action where there is an epic standoff in the end precusored by a delicate game of cat an mouse.

People playing in PUG matches need to learn team work. Superior teamwork will win every match.

Yes, the Match Maker is broken, we do not have PUG integration for C3, and no robust text chat option.
When these things are fixed, especially the MM and C3 the PUG world will change drastically. I do PUG and I feel your pain.
With this Wed's patch premades will be limited to 4 on a side with the rest being filled in with PUGs, hopefully with that things will be better and PUGs can work with the premades to learn and win.

Just a few rambling thoughts.

I taken several of trial mechs out for a spin just so people know that there not walk overs. Yes they have flaws but a Awsome shooting 360 rounds out of 2 LRM 15 with 2 large lasers for clean up is still a threat. If you play smart you shouldn't have issues.

All the trial mechs have some sort of LRM on them for skrimish a lot are laser based.

Also building your own mech is a lot more challenging than you think you have to have the right balance of weapons, armor make choices like FF, endo, or XL double or single heat sinks.

Thats what makes grinding for your own custom mech worth it.

Thanks

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 05 November 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Lin Shai]

Frosted, on 05 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Tell me about those premade tactics

Knowing how to play the game and realizing you are, in fact, not John Rambo is OP. It should be nerfed

[Alexandrix]

Stop saying premades are rare.They aren't.In my experience,as anecdotal as that may be,about every third match is a premade.I counted 20 matches the other night..saturday i think it was...maybe friday,not sure.Anyways,out of those 20 matches 15 admitted being premade(flashing clan webpage/trash talking like high schoolers/8-0 pugstomp/what have you),and 2 more were questionable.Now let's assume a couple matches were just pugs trolling and saying they were premade...and the 2 that were questionable were just organized pubs.So let's be generous and say 10 were premade out of 20.50%.That's not rare by any stretch of the imagination.

Now,you may say "But Alexandrix,my group rarely ever fights another premade! they must be rare!".Well,yea,to your premade they probably are rare.Know why? the matchmaker,that's why.Not all premades run the same set up.ergo,it's unlikely they will face each other.Instead,more often than not,the match maker will cherry pick whatever unfortunate pubbies are in the Q at that time to match the premades set up.Boom.endless pugstomp.

On a good night i get a premade 1 in every 6 matches...if i'm really lucky.no,i'm not exaggerating.

[RG Notch]

Frosted, on 05 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Tell me about those premade tactics

I believe those tactics are whatever leads to this guy losing, I'm sure he's so uber he would never lose or die except to pre mades. When people want to believe something, especially when to admit otherwise would put blame on them, this is what you get. But no amount of logic or even stats will make certain folks change their pre conceived notions. Even if stats were produced these folks would claim they were faked.
I'm sure only premades focus fire on the lone mech that rushes ahead and homes in on the first red dot they see thinking they are Rambo. I'm sure it's only pre mades that can stick together and watch flanks. Why argue with faith?
The MM changes won't fix this whining as it will just shift to how 4 man groups are OP, if there were a solo queue it would then be trial mechs suck, if it was trial only then it would be experienced CB vets are OP. Some people really are that good that they should never ever lose, unless some one has some artificial advantage or as I like to call it an excuse.

[Imagine Dragons]

Ima gonna say it again, we can't prove/disprove whats a premade and whats a good pug until we have group indicators like WoT does...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Why should I be punished for playing with my Corps?

Why should I have to be limited because other's choose not to join a team?

Why am I the one being forced to conform?

[Sandpit]

Again, just because you get beat doesn't make the other side a premade.
Just because they use tactics and play smart does not make them premades.
Just because they focus fire does not make them premades.
Just because they actually attempt to work together does not make them a premade.
Just because your team gets rolled does not make the other side a preamde.
Just because someone on the other side announces a website for their unit doesn't make them a premade.
Just because you want to believe that's the only reason you're getting rolled does not make the other side a premade.

Bottom line is we as players have no way of looking at the other side and seeing if they're premade, VOIP premade, pugs, new players, etc. The people that DO have this ability actually took a look at it and crunched the numbers and flat out told you it's not nearly as often as you believe.
Your opinions and "I think it was premade because" are not factual and more than likely not the reason a team gets rolled or stomped.

[Lin Shai]

Alexandrix, on 05 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Stop saying premades are rare.

Why? They are.

Or are the devs lying to you?

Quote

On a good night i get a premade 1 in every 6 matches...if i'm really lucky.no,i'm not exaggerating.

Yes, you are. Or you are the unluckiest player in the game re: matchmaker roulette.

Those of us who PUG and play on TS3 carry 1:1 win/loss when PUGing. We don't see the pre-made boogyman around every corner when we lose, because generally we lose because we were grouped with 7 other people who don't type a thing into chat, disconnect, suicide, and rambo off to their deaths. Which, of course, means that when you're actually playing a pre-made you have very little chance of winning period because they don't do these things. Or ... we simply get killed by a better player. That happens.

The real problem is the matchmaker putting new players in trial mechs, rambos, and people who simply aren't very good at the game up against people who are experienced and know how to play the game. You know what happens when one of the dreaded pre-mades have the players all randomly pick a trial mech and drop? Same thing; they win. You know what happens when (through a miracle) the matchmaker presents a group of competent players in a PUG to a pre-made? A good match ensues. It's pretty much the only time we lose except when playing against another pre-made. At the very least it isn't a lopsided crushing.

Edited by Lin Shai, 05 November 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Alexandrix]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Why should I be punished for playing with my Corps?

Why should I have to be limited because other's choose not to join a team?

Why am I the one being forced to conform?

I'm not saying you should.I don't care what you and you corp do.I just don't want anything to do with it.2 q's should exist,1 for solo launch,and 1 for group.That way you can play with your corp to your hearts content,but you'll be playing against other groups...not roflstomping pubbies and newbs in trial mechs.

At some point i imagine PGI will pull it's collective head out of it's rear and make this happen,but who knows when that will be.Until then,all you and your corp are doing is abusing a broken,nearly non existent matchmaker,and pushing new players away from the game.

[Kell Draygo]

Lin Shai, on 05 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Those of us who PUG and play on TS3 carry 1:1 win/loss when PUGing.

These numbers are completely false. They may have been true a few weeks ago in Closed Beta but when the game went Open Beta, the numbers crumbled pretty badly as there are a lot more premades stomping. Also, premades play a lot more game in a day than casual puggers.

The only way Pug numbers are 1:1 in W/L is if Premades are also 1:1 W/L. And that is not even close to accurate.