518 replies to this topic

[Rayah]

Evedro Solais, on 15 April 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Great_Turtle Don't forget the retardedly hard to kill Great Turtle After the Tarantula this would be the next quad I would want to see put in, at the appropriate time of course.

This is now my favorite quad mech.

[ZnSeventeen]

corpse256, on 31 May 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

I'm gona go no on this because I never really got into the quad leg thingys like in Metal Warriors, Armored Core series, and Front Mission series. I'm sorry but I like two legs better than four because it gives a human like characteristic to the mechs. Plus I would think that they would be too large of a target and would be too easy to aim at the legs since there are four of them. In addition the mech would move too slow having to move 4 legs kinda kills your speed.(If you know what I'm saying, RIght?....Wrong??)

Well I put in my 2 cents on this topic didn't read anyother post than the main.

Okay, human, biped, max speed 28 mph. Similar weight animals with four legs, let us see, cheetah, dog, deer, tops speeds of 75, 68, 60 mph? Even one of the few other bipeds, the kangaroo maxes out at about 44 mph. Ostrich maxes out at 43 mph.
Nope, I think four legs tends to increase speed.

Edited by ZnSeventeen, 01 June 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Vora MacEvedy]

Hey, I'd pilot a Scorpion, or a Goliath.

And if someone can find me an old Xanthos, I'd be really set.

[ZnSeventeen]

Vora MacEvedy, on 01 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Hey, I'd pilot a Scorpion, or a Goliath.

And if someone can find me an old Xanthos, I'd be really set.

I can wait 17 years for a Great Turtle myself.

[ZeroKel]

While a quad should be faster and a more stable firing platform it wasn't factored into the game. No speed or accuracy boosts, that I can remember.

[Hanged Man]

I don't particularly enjoy quad 'mechs, but support their inclusion for the simple reason of making the field more diverse. More 'mechs means more surprises.. and I love surprises.

[AcesHigh]

I, for one, look forward to my souped-up agromech.

I'mma harvest noobs with it like a good little troll.

[OTC WYRMsFIRE]

My favorite thing is how everyone who has never even had a chance to play a quad or tripod mech, which i haven't seen in any of the tech readout manuals i own, KNOW for certain the only good mechs are bipeds... Is that in house propaganda or a statement about something that can't be proven since there is no quad mech playable in a mechwarrior title. Just saying think twice and speak once and people will listen a lot more. -The council for the liberation and proliferation of vertically challenged mechs. ( I can't be the only one who wants to see a three or four legged mech limp.) Isn't the goal to bring variety to the game and make the variety useful and to have purpose across the board. Quads sound like a perfect challenge for the back burner. P.S. A Quad mech might be something i would pay for... hint hint.

[Pvt Dancer]

Yes.

[Skylarr]

I have been playing TT for over 20yrs now. Ever since I can remember the Scorpion and Goliath have both been on the charts for possible Mechs you would get. It all depended on which House you came from.

[LordDeathStrike]

ZnSeventeen, on 01 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Okay, human, biped, max speed 28 mph. Similar weight animals with four legs, let us see, cheetah, dog, deer, tops speeds of 75, 68, 60 mph? Even one of the few other bipeds, the kangaroo maxes out at about 44 mph. Ostrich maxes out at 43 mph.
Nope, I think four legs tends to increase speed.

nope, we arent talking an animal. we are talking a metal war machine that has to have 3 legs on the ground at all times and only moves 1 off the ground at a time, why? because it falls down if it doesnt do so. its too heavy to gallop with all 4 feet in the air at a time like cheetahs and horses, its too ungangly to run at a gate with 2 and 2 in air/on ground. all it can do is scuttle 1 leg moving at a time, and if you take a leg out you cripple its movement. and their turning sucks, they traded it for strafing.

the main flaw of the quads is super easy to dfa, even if landing on the great turtles back doesnt kill it, he cant shoot you anymore and you can just take out his rear armor while standing on him.

ZeroKel, on 01 June 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

While a quad should be faster and a more stable firing platform it wasn't factored into the game. No speed or accuracy boosts, that I can remember.

ever see a cheetah run? its an agile creature, a quad mech is not. the tech was designed for bipedal motion. quads can stand there ok but they just dont move right with their limited ranges of leg motion due to armor plateing. a knight in armor with strong legs can run, and equally armored horse, can not.

[Oswin Aurelius]

The Thunder Fox is the coolest quad 'mech out there. Just Saiyan.

[Gherrek]

I'd drive a quad, it would be interesting to see how they were done too. WTB Sirocco!

[LordDeathStrike]

Gherrek, on 02 June 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'd drive a quad, it would be interesting to see how they were done too. WTB Sirocco!

as an anti infantry weapon this thing is good. as a mech its awfull. note the impossible to miss headshot cockpit on the nose, the egregiously exposed weak armor rear panel, and the long impossible not to take out the knee joints legs, this thing is so tall it gets no cover bonus from ruin walls like other quads that people want.

it does at least have a twist waist, but its so exposed a single gauss round would cripple it.

[Sporklift]

LordDeathStrike, on 02 June 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

as an anti infantry weapon this thing is good. as a mech its awfull. note the impossible to miss headshot cockpit on the nose, the egregiously exposed weak armor rear panel, and the long impossible not to take out the knee joints legs, this thing is so tall it gets no cover bonus from ruin walls like other quads that people want.

it does at least have a twist waist, but its so exposed a single gauss round would cripple it.

Take a really close look at bipedal designs and tell me that a lot of them don't also have the silly exposed cockpit weakness.

[tynaiden]

LordDeathStrike, on 01 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

...
we are talking a metal war machine that has to have 3 legs on the ground at all times and only moves 1 off the ground at a time, why? because it falls down if it doesnt do so. its too heavy to gallop with all 4 feet in the air at a time like cheetahs and horses, its too ungangly to run at a gate with 2 and 2 in air/on ground. all it can do is scuttle 1 leg moving at a time, and if you take a leg out you cripple its movement. and their turning sucks, they traded it for strafing.
...

Wait wut. Tell me with the same logic you provided how a two legged machine in the same weight brackets as quads would have any better chance of being more agile or faster without a foot leaving the ground? If 3:4 legs have to remain on the ground in your example for a quad, why would 1:2 (casual walk) or 0:2 (sprint) for bipedal be allowed the exception? Even in our own time we have quadrupedal machines that have great range of movement and strides that does not require at least 3 out 4 legs in contact with the ground.

A quad is less crippled by a single leg destruction than a bipedal. They even get a few bonuses for having more legs, mostly for stability and melee attacks. Most quad 'mech designs show more or equivalent range of movement than bipedal designs. Even removing aesthetics, just by pure numbers quads have the same amount of armor allowable as bipeds and employ the same technologies for movement.

The final thing you touch on is an armored horse and armored knight. Horses and humans cannot be compared exactly the same in that scenario as horse evolution dictated longer more slender legs for a long stride, not thick legs for plodding (not to mention size differences) If there was a Clydesdale (because it is more similar in bulk to size ratio than most horse breeds) raised to wear a full covering suit then it has a great chance of out running a human knight in similar coverage. Traditionally horses do not wear as much coverage as humans because it has to carry that full coverage human as well as itself and it's coverage.


You are welcome to your opinion on their inclusion in the game but arguments need to be in the same context of the universe (TableTop and game source books) or much closer analogs.

I agree with those here that there should not be a rush to include them but see no reason they cannot be introduced later when the core game mechanics are ironed out.

[Stormeris]

LordDeathStrike, on 02 June 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

as an anti infantry weapon this thing is good. as a mech its awfull. note the impossible to miss headshot cockpit on the nose, the egregiously exposed weak armor rear panel, and the long impossible not to take out the knee joints legs, this thing is so tall it gets no cover bonus from ruin walls like other quads that people want.

it does at least have a twist waist, but its so exposed a single gauss round would cripple it.

You and your opinion (which is horribly wrong) are not welcome here

[ZnSeventeen]

LordDeathStrike, on 01 June 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

nope, we arent talking an animal. we are talking a metal war machine that has to have 3 legs on the ground at all times and only moves 1 off the ground at a time, why? because it falls down if it doesnt do so. its too heavy to gallop with all 4 feet in the air at a time like cheetahs and horses, its too ungangly to run at a gate with 2 and 2 in air/on ground. all it can do is scuttle 1 leg moving at a time, and if you take a leg out you cripple its movement. and their turning sucks, they traded it for strafing.

the main flaw of the quads is super easy to dfa, even if landing on the great turtles back doesnt kill it, he cant shoot you anymore and you can just take out his rear armor while standing on him.

ever see a cheetah run? its an agile creature, a quad mech is not. the tech was designed for bipedal motion. quads can stand there ok but they just dont move right with their limited ranges of leg motion due to armor plateing. a knight in armor with strong legs can run, and equally armored horse, can not.

Okay, and which is faster, an armored person, or an armored horse? Ever hear of cataphracts?
And as for Quad mechs having difficulty moving, it occurs to me that they have gyros, just like all the other mechs. They can run just like other mechs.
As for them being giant machines, not animals, your point is valid. In all fairness I concede that the parallels between mechs and animals are not perfect, quad mechs rarely have a flexible spine, which is the secret for some of the incredible speeds we find on cheetahs, deer and greyhounds. I was simply suggesting that two legs are definitely not inherently faster. (Similar to the strange general belief that larger things are inherently slower.)

Oh, I forgot to mention, standing on other mechs stably? Now you are just getting ridiculous.
But since we are saying bipeds can stand on quads, why can't a quad DFA and stand on a biped? It could keep three legs on the ground, and the fourth on the other mech and just stomp it to death. Just as viable as a biped riding a Great Turtle, perhaps more so.
(Though the image of a commando sitting on a great stallion shouting "High ho silver!" does make me happy."

Edited by ZnSeventeen, 02 June 2012 - 09:52 AM.

[BladedDragon]

I'd pilot a quad mech for fun. I would love to try out the Barghest or Thunder Fox.

[wanderer]

Adrienne Vorton, on 31 May 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

true mech warriors need only 2 legs... i always hated those quads, just as much as "manga style" LAM´s... not my way to go... take a CLOSE look at the shadowcat and bushwhacker, and you know what a mech is

Pssh. Quads are great machines. Being able to easily go prone behind cover and get up without missing a beat, lateral motion that makes sidestepping out of cover or easily covering an approach as you skitter across a city street? A rock-solid platform (later on) for the 'Mech-knocking recoil of heavy gauss rifles and a nearly-impossible to knock down machine otherwise (before you blow a leg off, and even then it's still nice and mobile)?

They're weaker at knife-fighting ranges, but that's why most quads that aren't jump capable are packed with stand-off weaponry anyway. Early quads are more iffy, but they really did come into their own post-3049.