76 replies to this topic

[StandingInFire]

The only problem I have with LRMs is missiles that magically penetrate terrain, I have been in the tubes under the "bridge" in forest colony and have had LRMs hit me through the ceiling

And let’s be honest, LRMs are the lowest skill weapon in the game by far.

Edited by StandingInFire, 06 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[kalami]

XvDraxvX, on 06 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

There is more to Playing a LRM support then most people realise.

Im with you, i am the main LRM support guy for my Clan. here is a brief checklist of my tasks when im supporting.

Avoid Enemy Fire
Select the correct target for Missiles
Relay target location to my Team
Relay my target to my team
Avoid enemy lights that break through our line
Track enemy Movement on the battlefield
Request help from my team if i feel like my 2 medium lasers can't disway my attacker
Call out builds and targets to my team
Request target info for mechs that i have lost sight on
Position myself correctly on the battlefield
Target the Enemy
Fire my weapons
Manage heat
reposition as needed
Dont die

Keep in mind your LRM support is far more busy than you give them credit for. Do some LRM people just blindly shoot missiles? Yes but some people blindly shoot lasers and gauss's thats the difference between Skill/winning, and Dying with missiles left to fire.

I carry 1440 Missiles and i usually get all of them away before the match is over. I get 1-3 Kills and 7-8 assists.

My clan wins matches losing 1 to 0 mechs in the fight.

I'm not complaining about LRMs as I love getting in LRM boats faces when possible; but this list could just as easily be applied to a brawler with the addition of 5 more skills.

To each their own; LRM boats have a role and if someone enjoys that then so be it. I roll in a cent most of the time and I would concede that the most skilled role is the scout class followed by the brawlers then heavys then lrm boats.

Now from importance it's shuffled a bit to me; probably scouts, LRM boats, heavy and then brawlers. Just my 2 cents.

[Sinnersaix]

Stop comparing MWO with WOT before i kill somepony...wait...i allready do, but stop comparing !

[Joseph Mallan]

JohnnyWayne, on 06 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Snipers need a direct LOS. Do you need one? Didn't think so...

Hell, when I level up my cat I'll eq srm's and beat the **** ouf of anything I meet...

As far as I know, in TT lrmboats weren't as powerful as they currently are in MWO. They are too accurate and do too much damage....

You're right you don't know TT. LRMs are powerful on TT Archers and Catapults (w/LRMs) are respected Weapons platforms. LRMs need direct LoS OR a scout providing Coordinates to the target. Get used to what war is. War isn't fair and this is a war game. Don't like missiles? You are going to hate Artillery! Picture the effect of LRMs but it hiys a large area of effect! Damaging 2 or more Mechs at the same time. Quake in fear now.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 November 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Hellcat420]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 06 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

"Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl"

A lot of people want a straight-up brawl, and I understand that, but IMO that isn't really what this particular game is about. We are fighting as a part of a combined-arms force, and that means dealing with indirect fire.

I also think that once the hit detection is fixed fewer people will be drawn to the IDF role, so there will probably be fewer examples of extreme LRM boating.

except there are no combined-arms forces in this game. its just mech combat.

[Teralitha]

Broceratops, on 06 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

LRM = least skilled weapon in the game. It a good weapon and I'm not saying LRM players are all bad and at end of the day everyone is free to play what they want - but I can't think of any reasonable argument against it being the least skilled weapon in the game. If I had a team of 8 players and I wanted to win, the crappiest players would be assigned to LRM duty for sure.

I disagree. Because if your LRM pilot cant choose good targets, cant move to get better targets, dies because they ignore the jenner shooting them in back and doesnt even call for help... cant take cover when being focused or generally is ineffective with the LRMs in any way... then they are useless. A number of things can render a LRM support useless. And it takes skill to avoid being rendered useless.

Agaisnt pug teams being the LRM boat is pretty easy... trial mechs dont have AMS. But deal with a custom, premade and your in trouble as LRM support unless your team is near enough to watch your back, because clever lights will find it.

[FenrisUlf]

only thing regarding LRMs is passing through cover.

[Haeso]

Broceratops, on 06 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

the crappiest players would be assigned to LRM duty for sure.

This is why I always laugh at LRM boaters. The difference between a good LRM pilot and a bad one is small, the difference between a good laser/ballistic pilot and a bad one is /huge/. Which is why while I recognize LRM to be arguably the strongest fit right now with proper support I don't really enjoy playing it unless we're running 5-6 LRM boats for ***** and giggle pubstomps.

[ArcadiaNisus]

lrm are needed. They add a tactical advantage to the game.

But for the player with the lrm's, it takes no skill. You're completely dependent on your spotters, if they do well, you do well. But it has nothing to do with you. My only problem with lrm's is how spammy it is. You can carry enough ammo on a lrm boat that you can fire the entire match regardless of if your lock will be good or not and still have left over missiles. lrm should be more about tactical suppression fire to keep the enemy pinned down, and less about being an ultra long range, no line of sight, dps monster and is never in any danger and has no repair bill at all.

[Duckwalk]

I like how people talk about skill based on mouse movement.... something even my grandmother has been doing for at least a decade now.

Please refrain from talking about how "hard it is to point your clicker" and instead focus on average weapon damage or some other relevant factor.....

Example:

Streak SSRM dmg is too high and focus on center torso.

[Endust]

all i'm reading here is a lot of lone wolves complaining about not being able to go out and pew pew, this game is teamwork and tactics, there is no 1 v 1 dueling ego fest area.

[Osiris1975]

All mechs require the same skill: the ability to play to your own mech's strengths and exploit the target mech's weaknesses. As you can see this is only my second post here, but even I've figured that much out.

If you're a brawler and the LRM boat is kicking your ***, you are doing something wrong, probably sitting out in the open and not using the terrain to flank them. You significantly defang and LRM boat just by getting within 180 meters of them. One of my favorite tactics is to flank Cats with my Hunchie 4sp and lay a 4ML 2SRM6 alpha strike in their rear armor.

So don't let the whiners bother you, just tell them to quit whining and learn to play the game.

[Prophet of Entropy]

its funny ive never had missles pass through terrain. ive taken damage when part of my mech pushes up through or past cover but never if my mech is clearly covered. i use lrm cover alot, i mean every game. some people may think they are covered but lrms spread out and some arc higher then others, and if your mech shouldnt fit somewhere but does cause the devs didnt want to get people stuck doesnt mean theres actualy cover for you there.

so i guess my last 800 matches since the last lrm pathing changes are unique.

[kalami]

Endust, on 06 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

all i'm reading here is a lot of lone wolves complaining about not being able to go out and pew pew, this game is teamwork and tactics, there is no 1 v 1 dueling ego fest area.

Bleh, im not a lone wolf except when I choose to be; there are all kinds of situations in mechwarrior and thats the fun of it; you get 1v1's sometimes you get 3 vs 1's and occasionally you get team vs 1's. You can probably have all those scenarios every other match.

[Joseph Mallan]

Duckwalk, on 06 November 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

I like how people talk about skill based on mouse movement.... something even my grandmother has been doing for at least a decade now.

Please refrain from talking about how "hard it is to point your clicker" and instead focus on average weapon damage or some other relevant factor.....

Example:

Streak SSRM dmg is too high and focus on center torso.

Fixed this for you. The focused fire is the only thing needing fixed. I use LRMs not SSRMs. Streaks need to be fixed before Streak 4s & 6s are added. Clans have a Timber Wolf that carries 6 SSRM6. If you're complaining bout Streak2s 6s will give you nightmares.

[Tarrasque]

So a highly sophisticated long range weapons system shouldn't be able to hone directly in on a target which is under direct observation by another unit...








...ok.

[Broceratops]

Teralitha, on 06 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I disagree. Because if your LRM pilot cant choose good targets, cant move to get better targets, dies because they ignore the jenner shooting them in back and doesnt even call for help... cant take cover when being focused or generally is ineffective with the LRMs in any way... then they are useless. A number of things can render a LRM support useless. And it takes skill to avoid being rendered useless.

Agaisnt pug teams being the LRM boat is pretty easy... trial mechs dont have AMS. But deal with a custom, premade and your in trouble as LRM support unless your team is near enough to watch your back, because clever lights will find it.

I kind of envision what you are saying, which is that a LRM lobmech is more prone to having to deal with scouts and also have to do this without help from their main guns, but all that other stuff applies to every mech. If i'm taking cover in my assault, I'm not doing any damage either. But with LRMs at least I can just back up and continue firing indirectly.


What doesn't help my perception of LRM pilots = no good is that when I flank a LRM pilot, most of the time they appear to be totally stupefied, sometimes to the point of not even realizing someone is launching alphas at their backside. And when they do realize, too often they end up displaying minimal piloting skills in an effort to get away. And of course, shooting LRMs at me while I'm 20 meters out.

[Legione 11]

Actually... there are issues with LRM such as passing through cover, maybe a bit too high or too focused damage, but I think that MANY of current weapon balancing is aggravated by current state of Match Making.

Speaking about LRM, I always PUG and It happens to me to fight against premades with many LRM boaters or hybrid and some "skilled" browler/harasser to keep the enemy busy while the heavy raing goes on.. their better teamwork make their LRMs twice as deadlier than in a PUG vs PUG or PREM vd PREM case, thus making them seem really OP in certain situations.. In some maps the situation is even worse, such in caustic valley where hiding from LRM is a bit more difficult due to map conformation.


Obviously, it really sucks when you get destroyed by a relentless LRM fire without being able to do anything, and the fact that the enemy that killed you is someway sitting in his armcahair pulling the trigger makes it suck even worse.

Imho, I would say that at the moment maybe LRM damage is a bit too high or too "focused", but again, I would say that all those problems don't exist

[Duckwalk]

I don't think SSRM dmg is too high, it was just an example made in an attempted to get past the "omg being proficient at mouse use is AMAZING SKILLZZZ!!!" argument being thrown around.

[HugeGuns]

I think lrm just needs to be less spammable. More heat generation, slower rate of fire or less ammo. Other than that lrm is a needed pressure, just seeing an atlas die in 10 seconds to 4 lrm boats because the missiles are turning corners around his cover.
And if you don't think that's possible go ahead and launch your missiles, purposefully lose your lock when they take cover then re-establish your lock and watch your missiles turn on a dime. When you master this cover doesn't matter. If you judge the distance right and time it right you wait until the missiles have travelled past your target and make them turn around rather than fly into the cover.

But still, shouldn't be able to spam so many missiles for so long without worry about heat or ammo.