76 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Tarrasque, on 06 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

So a highly sophisticated long range weapons system shouldn't be able to hone directly in on a target which is under direct observation by another unit...

...ok.

They should hit, but have a touch of spread. It will be a compromise between what we have now and the totally random location hits of TT. OR have it so Streaks hit the location aimed at and not the CT only. I don't fuss much over OP, I face GaussCats and StreakCats without fear. but the ability to only hit CT is OP.
Thx
Bye

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 November 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Jacmac]

People complaining about LRM don't use AMS, stand out in the open, and go light on armor. I get hit with LRMs all the time, I don't see them as over-powered. If you don't like being showered, don't become the focus of your enemies.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

How is it cowardly to play a build that is pretty much helpless the second someone runs up to your face? This isn't a "I can just sit back out of range and no one will ever shoot back or close distance" game. Jenners single me out over the entire team and I rarely ever get any help against them. I also eat Gauss Rifle shots every game, sometimes dying to 2 perfect shots straight to the head.(I've no idea how people hit this tiny moving hitbox at 1,500 meters)

[KaiserX]

I find that the LRM is way too 'easy' to use for players who build and focuses into one...
It's actually a much safer build than light mechs that is armed to the teeth with small lasers because they don't need direct line of sight to hit anything... Just fire and forget homing guided missiles that homes in even after the target vanishes...

But in any case, a AMS is vital, but most trial mechs does not come with any meaning it makes matchmaking more random and unbalanced because LRM teams takes out the mechs mostly because they don't have a custom mech.

A proper 'use' to long range missiles with guidance is probably one that requires you to have your target lit in order to keep them locked on.

If the target vanishes, the missiles in flight should 'forget' and fly blindly, and becomes wasted on terrain.

In WoT, the REASON why people are more cautious is because tanks can easily destroy one another if done well, and this means light tanks are suppose to find and destroy SPGs...
In MWO, the customization of 'heavy mechs' to use LRM and Medium Lasers destroys the point of relevance between the SPG and a Heavy Tank...

In fact, it's more likely that LRM mechs are built heavy too so they run in both heavy tank and SPG roles.

There is also the Tank Destroyer Classes that people tend to forget... All offensive power and little to no defensive power.

Light Mechs only have mobility on their side, but oddly enough the Heavy Mechs can be built to have the same or similar functions as a light, thus nullifying the point of their existence, other than being cheaper to use.

See the difference between the two mmos are too great and vast... Light Mechs can take several large laser shots, it all depends on where they are shot.
In WoT, Light Tanks cannot risk being seen by Heavy Tanks, for they usually die in 1-3 hits.

SPGs shoot one round at a time with severely long reload speeds.
LRM mechs spam missiles with little to no reload speeds, similarly to their lasers and other weapon speeds.

If you REALLY want to balance it, consider giving more longer reload times between weapon types and size...

Missiles should always have a longer reload/cooldown than Laser/Ballistics.

Edited by KaiserX, 06 November 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Jacmac, on 06 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

People complaining about LRM don't use AMS, stand out in the open, and go light on armor. I get hit with LRMs all the time, I don't see them as over-powered. If you don't like being showered, don't become the focus of your enemies.

Yes. If you're Heavy or Assault with an AMS you can ignore them for quite a while unless half their team is firing them. But 1 Catapult with 30-40 missile barrages barely even gets through the AMS. Also, if you're near allies, the AMS will double the protection for each other and shoot down every single missile; even if they aren't going for you. If several Mechs, all with an AMS, are near each other, they are practically LRM immune.

[HugeGuns]

My lrm boat has 4 streaks and 2 big lrms. You should try it if Jenners hassle you. Scares the the hell out of them. Then they explode

[ArcadiaNisus]

Bluten, on 06 November 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

(I've no idea how people hit this tiny moving hitbox at 1,500 meters)

Even though you can move around freely and don't even have to worry about line of sight it's part of being a bad no-skill lrm boat to stand completely still and let players gauss you once or twice before you move.

[Broceratops]

ArcadiaNisus, on 06 November 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Even though you can move around freely and don't even have to worry about line of sight it's part of being a bad no-skill lrm boat to stand completely still and let players gauss you once or twice before you move.

harsh but funny

[X-Man]

Look up the Longbow from the tabletop game, it's just one big missle launcher. This has always been part of battletech and should be refelcted in Mechwarrior. Best thing I have found to do is to get lots of armor, and a good AMS. Then charge them...Lrms can't lock on. The armor, and AMS block get enough for you to blast these guys to bits when you get close up. Not perfect but it can be effective, especially in packs.

[ian davion]

Cats are fine, it is just the missile boat Atlases that are a pain. You can't close with them unless you are using TS and in a group or you try to surround them. I have encountered an Atlas or two sitting up on hills and only firing LRMs in every match I played tonight. I've watched PUG members in spectate, after dieing, stand behind a rock or building in an Atlas and just firing their LRMs. They are a detriment to the team. They can soak up a ton of damage and usually have more weapons than the other mechs and they don't have any benefit as a boat, other than they can carry a ton of ammo. The only time they do anything good is when they are close to the team and they all stick together and they can fire on the enemy and also be the center of attention if the enemy comes close. Any Atlas on my team that hides behind a rock or on a hill away from the rest of the team is useless.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

JohnnyWayne, on 06 November 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Snipers need a direct LOS. Do you need one? Didn't think so...

Hell, when I level up my cat I'll eq srm's and beat the **** ouf of anything I meet...

As far as I know, in TT lrmboats weren't as powerful as they currently are in MWO. They are too accurate and do too much damage....

This is pretty much exactly my thoughts. I used to enjoy a good LRM boat in TT but really indirect fire was the exception not the rule, and it was at a significant penalty compared to direct fire. I don't know about the damage per missile, it seems high, but I'm no game designer. I think a key balancing feature for LRMs would be to reduce the effectiveness of indirect fire noticeably but not massively.

[ArcadiaNisus]

Just had an interesting discussion with a friend. I think it would be very interesting if there was a mech or variant that could carry 3 maybe even 4 ams's. Or perhaps more variants with 2ams available. Could make for a very interesting support role setups.

[JohnnyWayne]

Particle Man, on 06 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

no, you need a spotter and teamwork, what do you need with your gausscat?

the funniest part is that a gauss cat pilot is crying about lrms and calling them 'no skill'. irony?

Actually I'm playing a PPC cat because i absolute HATE lameing... Like gauss cats or lrm boats or ssrm boats...

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

You're right you don't know TT. LRMs are powerful on TT Archers and Catapults (w/LRMs) are respected Weapons platforms. LRMs need direct LoS OR a scout providing Coordinates to the target. Get used to what war is. War isn't fair and this is a war game. Don't like missiles? You are going to hate Artillery! Picture the effect of LRMs but it hiys a large area of effect! Damaging 2 or more Mechs at the same time. Quake in fear now.

Yes, I dont know much about TT. It's just what I read here. My point was actually, that lrms aren't as accurate in TT, as they are in mwo.


Oh btw: I use AMS. It does freaking nothing. Shoots down 2-3 missiels max... I have maxed armor and I don't stand in the open usually... I'm still complaining about lrms.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 07 November 2012 - 02:33 AM.

[HugeGuns]

I want to Patent my counter to LRM's.

Jenner rush to enemy Assault mech and/or Lrm Cat. Circle him while missiles approach. 2 seconds from Impact park in his legs other side of LRM's.

TEAM, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?! STAHP

Honestly, inflicted team kills are the best.. First they're not getting XP because of missile bug, then lose XP and Credits for the team kill, just make sure to shoot his ankles to get the kill assist.

Also if you manage to leg them it's even easier to cause said team kills.
One of the greatest martial arts strategy is based on taking your enemies power and using it against him, not fighting directly against it.

[Aurias]

I'm sad to admit, I used to play an LRM boat, back when the only mech I had was my C1F.

****, that thing was boring to play. Damage was high, carried a lot of missiles, but it just wasn't fun. At all.

Now I'm a useless no-skill 148kph 3L pilot.

[multiplesanta34]

If people didn't exploit LRMs and SSRMs by boating them to the extent they did, I don't think they would have been nerfed so hard. Instead of adding those missiles to balanced builds they simply went all missile, added 50 tons of ammo so they could hold down the trigger the whole match, and then paid no ammo fees afterwards. They have no one to blame but themselves really.

[Hawks]

XvDraxvX, on 06 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

There is more to Playing a LRM support then most people realise.

Im with you, i am the main LRM support guy for my Clan. here is a brief checklist of my tasks when im supporting.

Avoid Enemy Fire
Select the correct target for Missiles
Relay target location to my Team
Relay my target to my team
Avoid enemy lights that break through our line
Track enemy Movement on the battlefield
Request help from my team if i feel like my 2 medium lasers can't disway my attacker
Call out builds and targets to my team
Request target info for mechs that i have lost sight on
Position myself correctly on the battlefield
Target the Enemy
Fire my weapons
Manage heat
reposition as needed
Dont die

Keep in mind your LRM support is far more busy than you give them credit for. Do some LRM people just blindly shoot missiles? Yes but some people blindly shoot lasers and gauss's thats the difference between Skill/winning, and Dying with missiles left to fire.

I carry 1440 Missiles and i usually get all of them away before the match is over. I get 1-3 Kills and 7-8 assists.

My clan wins matches losing 1 to 0 mechs in the fight.

...because no-one playing a brawler or scout has to do any of those things...

multiplesanta34, on 11 December 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

If people didn't exploit LRMs and SSRMs by boating them to the extent they did, I don't think they would have been nerfed so hard. Instead of adding those missiles to balanced builds they simply went all missile, added 50 tons of ammo so they could hold down the trigger the whole match, and then paid no ammo fees afterwards. They have no one to blame but themselves really.

It's not as if that's entirely non-canon, though...

[Galenit]

multiplesanta34, on 11 December 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

If people didn't exploit LRMs and SSRMs by boating them to the extent they did, I don't think they would have been nerfed so hard.

What should a catapult with 4 or 6 launchers do other then "boating" missiles?

[Hawks]

Galenit, on 11 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

What should a catapult with 4 or 6 launchers do other then "boating" missiles?

Boat NARCs, like a boss.

[multiplesanta34]

Galenit, on 11 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

What should a catapult with 4 or 6 launchers do other then "boating" missiles?

Instead of boating SSRMs or LRMs you add some SRMs, or medium lasers, like you've now been forced to do if you want to be able to defend yourself at all against ECM mechs.