425 replies to this topic

[Onyx Rain]

Egomane, on 07 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

If they ignore arms and legs, they become the overpowered tools they were before.

Nope, they are not! That is a common misconception due to former implementations of this weaponsystem. There should be no weapon system designed to counter a specific type of mech. It would throw balance out of the door.

I agree that the missles should not miss a target once they locked on. I hope this will get fixed in the future. But they should never get their former accuracy again.

I disagree...You spread their dmg over 4 different sections and that makes a big difference. Will usually draw the fight out longer giving the other player more time kill the cat since the strk cat can't put all its dmg on one area in as short a time period...some will hit other sections, some will miss completely

Also strk2 really only becomes a real threat then the E has 3 or more....and that is mostly the strk cat, and awesome 9r, 9v....For mech other then those strks were nice but not op...frankly went srm mostly with those builds. I question the wisdom of nerfing it this hard for she sake of a couple mechs/builds

Just making them hit randomly on the LT, RT, CT, Head would have been enough of a nerf...while still leaving the weapons viable.

My complaint is with the misses...that added to the random hit location = to much nerf.

Also i'm hearing that ams is shooting down strks more in this patch., even if you are as close as 40m.....If that i the case that compounds the over nerf and makes it worse.

Just doing it so they would always hit, and hit the 4 most critical spots randomly, and occasionally get blocked by arms or hit leg as someone JJ , ran up a hill was plenty of Nerf

[WaKK0]

Uziel Huntsig, on 06 November 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Before complaining about Streaks being nerfed, perhaps you'd like to go and pilot a light mech against a FotM Streakboat and then you'll see why a nerf was absolutely necessary to them. Heaven forbid your StreakCat shouldn't instakill light mechs with zero skill requirement any more. As for claims that SSRMs should always hit torsos, that's just absurd, and the simple fact that you're suggesting that should be the case should be all the information you need as to why they were nerfed and how they were being used.

This is a team based game... If you have someone identify a Streak Cat, you have your medium to long range mechs hit it and it take it out. Putting in a short to medium range mech is just suicide and stupid. That's part of this game... TACTICS, its not meant to be quake where every mech can fight everyone else fairly!

[WardenWolf]

Josef Nader, on 07 November 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

My heat disappation rates pre-patch in my Atlas with 14 in-engine DHS and 3 external DHS: 1.49
10 + (7 x 2) = 24
My heat disappation rates post-patch in my Atlas with 14 in-engine DHS and 3 external DHS: 1.34
17 x 1.4 = 23.8

The big plus side to me is that they buffed the AC20. Once the missiles get fixed, I'll be a very, very happy Brawler Atlas.

You have exactly the amount where the DHS change crosses over. Any less than 17 total DHS - so lights and mediums, along with non-hot larger mechs - improved. 17 on the dot, like yourself, lost *slightly* (but probably not enough to notice). The issue is hot-running mechs which were equipping 20+ DHS before, and now are significantly worse off than they were before... and often to such a degree that moving back to single heatsinks is still better. The upshot of all that is that bigger energy weapons are harder to field on the mechs where they are normally used (in lore / standard variants)... and this seems problematic for many pilots, myself included.

[Corrado]

Blackfoot, on 07 November 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

While I agree streaks always targeting CT needed to be fixed, they are totally useless now. Why not make it like MW4 where if you are aiming at a mechs legs, they target the legs, if you aim at arms, torsos, etc, they target those areas. Why cant something like this be implemented?

also, streaks in MW4 were not lock and fire. you needed to aim and shoot then they went exactly at the part of the mech you aimed.. i would like that so there is more aim needed to play, not just aiming the general direction and profit.

[rythex]

I think the change is for the better, I don't get cored in a few salvos from a jenner running in circle spamming me with streaks. They were too accurate before, hence the "Streak boats"

[Josef Nader]

I agree they shouldn't miss. However, they need to randomly target -all- parts of the mech. Welcome to using properly balanced weapons, guys. Everyone else has to worry about hitting things that aren't torso. So should you. If you want your SSRMs to go where you aim, there's are these wonderful weapons systems called SRMs, that go -exactly- where you aim. They don't home in, sure, but you can make every single missile hit CT with the right level of skill.

[Corvus Antaka]

if you hover the location when you shoot, hit that spot. if you dont, hit a random spot.

[Tice Daurus]

Really? I guess I must be right then.

[Ogir]

So, with the newest patch, the devs decided to lower the efficiency of double heatsinks to 1.4 BECAUSE THEY ****** UP in the first place, and NOW think it might be better if DHS are less efficient, because then lasers would be actually USEFUL again.

So, I paid 1,5M for my Awesome to get DHS, so i could improve the overall HS to 42(21 installed, times 2 = 42). I did not choose Endo-Steel, because I got more out of DHS... i thought.

But NOW, because SOME DEVS THINK it might be better, if DHS do lower heat dissipation, all i get are 29.4 Heatsinks.
I remind you that an awesome comes with 28 HS PREINSTALLED!

So I paid 1.5M do get 1.4 ******* MORE HEATSINKS?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

And STILL 3 Slots? RLY?

Why dont you just add a SELFDESTRUCT button to the trigger of anything else than ballistics, so people only use LRM boats?!
Because thats what the DEVs obviously want MWO to be... "Spam missiles and win".
So we have 3!!!! Systems to increase the missile span, and only 1 to lower it? WHERE IS THE ******* ECM!?

Why dont you just make all LRMS search and destroy, and why not also heat seeking, so ppl only have to pull the trigger, without any targeting...

This game is getting more and more ******** with every patch.

[Valder]

Corrado, on 07 November 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

my epeen is bigger

LRM's don't count.

Tice Daurus, on 07 November 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

I can't believe the amount of people who can't see the complete picture on this. Here's the real problem on this:

Last patch...we were given DHS. However...the problem is...there was an engine bug which caused DHS to be counted as SINGLE heat sinks. SINGLE. So we were never given a true test model to properly test double heat sinks. Then in this patch, they fixed the DHS heat sink engine bug. But then they nerf DHS down to 140 percent so they only give 40 percent more heat efficiency that singles.

Anyone seeing the problem here yet?

We NEVER got a chance to properly test the Double Heat Sinks to give the DEV's true data to see if DHS was too overpowered or not. So how can the DEV's go and nerf DHS with flawed data? I don't understand this whatsoever. I could see if it DHS HAD worked properly in the last patch, but they didn't, so the data they got is FLAWED.

Also, we never got a real reason as to why DHS was nerfed from PGI.

The true problems are this...

- DHS not properly tested with correct data to make a determination.
- The heat system has still not been fully looked at in my opinion to where it doesn't give the proper effects according to TT rules like they should, i.e, more heat, less movement, less torso twisting ability, HUD flickering and targeting causing problems, longer RoF time for weapons reliant on heat, like energy weapons, heat disappation rate.

I was going to make a comment asking if you smoke crack, but I'll refrain and instead put some other stuff...
You know that they have internal testers right?
Quote from Bryan:
"After fixing the EHS bug, and setting DHS to a canon value of 2.0, we experienced anticipated results. Heat was no longer a concern, increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts. After testing a variety of standard builds, we settled on 1.4. This value maintains the spirit of both DHS and maintains the integrity of MWO's overall gameplay experience."

That pretty much means that medium pulse laser boats were getting heat neutral. Is that what you want to see? A 50 ton mech with a mid 40's alpha strike worth of damage that doesn't overheat, doesn't use ammo, and has over 200m in range? Because that cores some mechs in 1 hit, most everything in 2 hits, and cockpits everything in 1 hit.

The main reason they're moving away from the tabletop rules about double heatsinks is that they want them to be an optional upgrade, not a mandatory one. Tabletop describes them as being a straight upgrade that every mech converted over to as soon as they were in production, and PGI is more interested in them being something you can tune your mech with or without.

Now, please read the original post where it says that THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR DISCUSSING WHAT FICTIONAL HEATSINKS YOU WANT TO HAVE. IT WAS INTENDED TO ISOLATE A SPECIFIC BUG IN THE SYSTEM THAT THE DEVS HAD IMPLEMENTED.

Edited by Valder, 07 November 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[RragnarR40k]

The fix on heat on some weapons I understand but Double heatsink nerf???

This nerf makes no sense at all. The double heatsink technology is prettymuch worthless now...

[HaDeZs]

It still gives better heat reduction for mechs that have the critical space while reducing weight to fit more armor/ect. Its not broken its just not as good as it was before the patch.

The only problem is that it costs 1.5m and the boost you get isn't worth it. It also fixes some other problems with the algorithms that were giving certain mechs HUGE boosts. Im sure this will get changed and fixed next update. Internal testing and calculations only go so far, the real test is when its live with thousands of players.

[IronGoat]

is it possible other players in a match with high ping cause players without a high ping to be laggy?

im not sure but it seems when i have a match with alot of stutter it seems that there are alsoe players in that match with well over 200 ping and when i dont get much stutter they seem to be all around the 150 or less mark.

i havent got enough data to say 100% this is always the case, but if its not possible with the way this game is set up ill stop looking for a connection, and try to find another cause for my random 5fps stutter games

[RragnarR40k]

Hmm, while it save weight it is still a limiting factor how many doubleheatsinks you can fit when they take up 3 slots each. The problem might have been on smaller mechs being able to use more guns than good for the game but the bigger mechs suffer from this nerf bigtime. Actually it's more efficient to equip 3 normal heatsinks and deal with the little extra weight.

The way I see it they can handle the problem with small mechs boasting too much firepower in many ways and they kinda already introduced one fix which was the heat fix on several laser weapons.

I will not use double heatsinks ever the way they are now. It's not even viable to consider them...

Edited by RragnarR40k, 07 November 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[Joe Luck]

I can confirm this. It is usually players with 200+ ping. It becomes more dramatic if say they are in a mech that goes 100kph+. The game will stutter in general more and when you get close to these people your game will stutter more. It doesn't seem to affect fps. I generally range from 60ms to 80ms per game with a 45fps to 60fps while the stuttering is happening. The more dramatic version is warping.

I can easily recreate this by doing a few downloads while playing and making the game "less" enjoyable for others. I feel like this is wrong but exploitable. This is also appeared when they moved to the newer cryengine. It again became more severe with knockdowns turned off.

Edited by Joe Luck, 07 November 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[IronGoat]

Joe Luck, on 07 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

I can confirm this. It is usually players with 200+ ping. It becomes more dramatic if say they are in a mech that goes 100kph+. The game will stutter in general more and when you get close to these people your game will stutter more. It doesn't seem to affect fps. I generally range from 60ms to 80ms per game with a 45fps to 60fps while the stuttering is happening. The more dramatic version is warping.

I can easily recreate this by doing a few downloads while playing and making the game "less" enjoyable for others. I feel like this is wrong but exploitable. This is also appeared when they moved to the newer cryengine. It again became more severe with knockdowns turned off.

AH well that would explain matches where i all but stop and cant move and i see people with 400 or more ping.
seems like these folks are either playing from some third world hellhole on a shoestring inet OR are intentionally causing lag

i just had a match that was so bad on 3 occasions i though the game locked up on me and almost hard reset my game. but then in the same match its smoothed out after some people had been killed on both teams ( laggers maybe)

glad i and my roomate are not the only ones who think this is happening

Edited by IronGoat, 07 November 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[AntharPrime]

Were the Innershpere double heatsinks not 2 slots and 2 tons, and the clan double heatsink 1 slot and 1 ton? The was an experimental corrosive liquid cooled double heatsink that was 3 slots.

[Capt Danger Awesome]

I could not agree more with this thread... i love this game... but now i don't even want to play it... WORST PATCH EVER.

[Tice Daurus]

Valder, on 07 November 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

LRM's don't count.




I was going to make a comment asking if you smoke crack, but I'll refrain and instead put some other stuff...
You know that they have internal testers right?
Quote from Bryan:
"After fixing the EHS bug, and setting DHS to a canon value of 2.0, we experienced anticipated results. Heat was no longer a concern, increasing DPS exponentially on certain types of mech loadouts. After testing a variety of standard builds, we settled on 1.4. This value maintains the spirit of both DHS and maintains the integrity of MWO's overall gameplay experience."

That pretty much means that medium pulse laser boats were getting heat neutral. Is that what you want to see? A 50 ton mech with a mid 40's alpha strike worth of damage that doesn't overheat, doesn't use ammo, and has over 200m in range? Because that cores some mechs in 1 hit, most everything in 2 hits, and cockpits everything in 1 hit.

The main reason they're moving away from the tabletop rules about double heatsinks is that they want them to be an optional upgrade, not a mandatory one. Tabletop describes them as being a straight upgrade that every mech converted over to as soon as they were in production, and PGI is more interested in them being something you can tune your mech with or without.

Now, please read the original post where it says that THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR DISCUSSING WHAT FICTIONAL HEATSINKS YOU WANT TO HAVE. IT WAS INTENDED TO ISOLATE A SPECIFIC BUG IN THE SYSTEM THAT THE DEVS HAD IMPLEMENTED.

Problem with this here...I never saw them ever post this. If I had...I most likely wouldn't have posted my comments. I know the DEV's are busy. I know they work hard. I know they have internal testers. I know all of that. What I didn't know is that they had tested this and then decided on this course of action. I would have liked the DEV's to have addressed this in an announcement post discussing with their data and saying we can't have DHS at 200 percent efficiency because we tested it because of XYZ reason or reasons. Had they done this, I wouldn't have had a problem with it and been more accepting of it and I wouldn't have complained here about it. However...while this addresses DHS, it still doesn't address problems they still have with the heat system and I would still like for them to look at this with further data and consideration.

I'm not trying to be unreasonable. I just feel the heat system isn't to where it needs to be and there's more work to be done to get it to where it's workable. Because if you think the complaining is bad now...wait until CLAN weapons come into play with ER PPC's doing 15 points of damage. Or other lasers in the game with extended ranges and the same heat. OR CLAN DHS comes in with 2 crit slots for clan DHS while IS heat sinks come in with 3 slots and it takes them at least 5 years of game time for the DHS to catch up to where the IS can reverse engineer DHS and come up with the same crit slots as the Clan DHS does.

[Ransack]

That's gotta hurt.

Glad I stayed away from them.