I feel that the problem (or one of the problems) with light mechs is that the turn rate does not change much with speed. Fast turns make the real position of the hit boxes even more unpredictable.
Jenners going 150KMh are not the real problem, Jenners turning on a dime at 150KMh are the real issue.
I remember that in MW2 you could make a mech go at 200KMH (the Firemoth) but at high speed the thing was very hard to steer. It was a common piloting skill to slow down at the right time, turn, and accelerate again. You had no problems in hitting them even with that primitive netcode.
IMHO in MWO the mechs feel massive and inertia is well implemented for acceleration and deceleration but the turn rate is way too permissive. I would implement a variable turning rate based on the mech mass and current speed.
2
1392 replies to this topic
#1263
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- 195 posts
Member
- LocationStamford, CT
Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:42 AM
Collisions won't fix netcode. They're another band-aid. My ping is sub 30ms and at times its still hard to hit other lights. The more you have in one area the worse it is. Direct fire beam weapons painted on a target should do damage to a target. Why can't we auth movement client side and auth fire server side? Why do we need an extra comm step in between? I understand they won't allow client side auth for firing but at least let us track movement in real time.
Also, muppets.
We Jenner pilots are not on god mode. I come back to my mech bay with some pretty heavy damage. Even though I don't know why I'm 74% damage when my entire rear has been stripped along with my front CT. That makes no sense.
Also, muppets.
We Jenner pilots are not on god mode. I come back to my mech bay with some pretty heavy damage. Even though I don't know why I'm 74% damage when my entire rear has been stripped along with my front CT. That makes no sense.
#1264
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- Elite Founder
- 1,363 posts
Member
Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:10 AM
Sorry for bringing a new element in this topic but I'm curious if I might have missed mention of this: Has it ever been said that catastrophic weapon impact ( basically a mech toppling over from the impact of weapons fire) would eventually be brought into the game ? I realize you have to be able to HIT the little ****** in the first place but it might bring another balancing factor into play. ( instead of just running them over you know 
)
(For reference, if I hit them square in the back I could make even a Dire Wolf nose plant in MW4 using a Hellspawn with 5 MRM10... which was usually enough time to run for my life before he got back up !)
)(For reference, if I hit them square in the back I could make even a Dire Wolf nose plant in MW4 using a Hellspawn with 5 MRM10... which was usually enough time to run for my life before he got back up !)
#1265
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- 343 posts
Member
- LocationUSA
Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:48 AM
First, they will bring back knockdown when it's fixed and yes it will reduce the amount of lights. You will have lights colliding with lights, and everyone rushing in to kill and not paying attention will be colliding as well. Be carefull what you wish for as only Atlases will probably stay standing. I've seen it happen even in coordinated units that keep firing lanes open. It will also happen when an Atlas bumps into an Atlas...
Second, it will reduce your frustation but only marginally. The rookie light pilots will either adapt or move on to tougher mechs that are easier to pilot (slower) and more durable. The good pilots will still eat you for breakfast unless you are working as a team. I don't care what mech it is and at what point in Beta, if it's solo and I'm in my Jenner I will go after them because I can usually stay behind just about any mech and still clear of them knocking me down. I'm not saying this to brag, just don't get your hopes up that all of a sudden your Atlas will win a fight with a Jenner every time.
Third, let me say I play it all. I unlocked my Catapults first, then Jenners, am finishing Hunchbacks and will move on to Atlas's next as I have all 4 founder mechs until the Jagermech and possibly Cataphract come out. Point being, I've been playing since midway through closed beta. The lag shield has always been there for all mechs... as the server population and overseas for that matter increased, it seems like load and lag have gone up as well.
In a nutshell, I still DO NOT have any problems hitting with the odd exception or two that are in 140 kph mechs and have 200+ MS pings. The flip side is that if you keep moving they also have a hard time hitting anything either.
Any of you ever play MW3? I still remember playing matches with Australians where we had to 'find the lag' and it usually was 7-9 mech lengths. Those were some long and yes, frustrating matches at times. Most matches even on dialup (56k) we still had to aim 2-3 mech lengths in front. This is NO different, learn to play and shoot. Also, don't solo and use your own light/medium mechs to focus down those pesky skirmishers.
It's the same story on larger mechs but you don't notice it so bad as they aren't moving as fast and are a lot larger and easier to hit. The larger mechs also tend to stop for some stupid reason or simply back away, instead of keeping moving and rotating torso.
Not that I know of, and yes I would like that too. Let them fix knockdown first though and some of the remaining balance issues.
Second, it will reduce your frustation but only marginally. The rookie light pilots will either adapt or move on to tougher mechs that are easier to pilot (slower) and more durable. The good pilots will still eat you for breakfast unless you are working as a team. I don't care what mech it is and at what point in Beta, if it's solo and I'm in my Jenner I will go after them because I can usually stay behind just about any mech and still clear of them knocking me down. I'm not saying this to brag, just don't get your hopes up that all of a sudden your Atlas will win a fight with a Jenner every time.
Third, let me say I play it all. I unlocked my Catapults first, then Jenners, am finishing Hunchbacks and will move on to Atlas's next as I have all 4 founder mechs until the Jagermech and possibly Cataphract come out. Point being, I've been playing since midway through closed beta. The lag shield has always been there for all mechs... as the server population and overseas for that matter increased, it seems like load and lag have gone up as well.
In a nutshell, I still DO NOT have any problems hitting with the odd exception or two that are in 140 kph mechs and have 200+ MS pings. The flip side is that if you keep moving they also have a hard time hitting anything either.
Any of you ever play MW3? I still remember playing matches with Australians where we had to 'find the lag' and it usually was 7-9 mech lengths. Those were some long and yes, frustrating matches at times. Most matches even on dialup (56k) we still had to aim 2-3 mech lengths in front. This is NO different, learn to play and shoot. Also, don't solo and use your own light/medium mechs to focus down those pesky skirmishers.
It's the same story on larger mechs but you don't notice it so bad as they aren't moving as fast and are a lot larger and easier to hit. The larger mechs also tend to stop for some stupid reason or simply back away, instead of keeping moving and rotating torso.
Bull Frog, on 12 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:
Sorry for bringing a new element in this topic but I'm curious if I might have missed mention of this: Has it ever been said that catastrophic weapon impact ( basically a mech toppling over from the impact of weapons fire) would eventually be brought into the game ? I realize you have to be able to HIT the little ****** in the first place but it might bring another balancing factor into play. ( instead of just running them over you know )
(For reference, if I hit them square in the back I could make even a Dire Wolf nose plant in MW4 using a Hellspawn with 5 MRM10... which was usually enough time to run for my life before he got back up !)
)(For reference, if I hit them square in the back I could make even a Dire Wolf nose plant in MW4 using a Hellspawn with 5 MRM10... which was usually enough time to run for my life before he got back up !)
Not that I know of, and yes I would like that too. Let them fix knockdown first though and some of the remaining balance issues.
#1266
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- 3,607 posts
Member
- LocationLos Angeles, CA
Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:16 AM
EvilCow, on 12 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:
I feel that the problem (or one of the problems) with light mechs is that the turn rate does not change much with speed. Fast turns make the real position of the hit boxes even more unpredictable.
Jenners going 150KMh are not the real problem, Jenners turning on a dime at 150KMh are the real issue.
I remember that in MW2 you could make a mech go at 200KMH (the Firemoth) but at high speed the thing was very hard to steer. It was a common piloting skill to slow down at the right time, turn, and accelerate again. You had no problems in hitting them even with that primitive netcode.
IMHO in MWO the mechs feel massive and inertia is well implemented for acceleration and deceleration but the turn rate is way too permissive. I would implement a variable turning rate based on the mech mass and current speed.
Jenners going 150KMh are not the real problem, Jenners turning on a dime at 150KMh are the real issue.
I remember that in MW2 you could make a mech go at 200KMH (the Firemoth) but at high speed the thing was very hard to steer. It was a common piloting skill to slow down at the right time, turn, and accelerate again. You had no problems in hitting them even with that primitive netcode.
IMHO in MWO the mechs feel massive and inertia is well implemented for acceleration and deceleration but the turn rate is way too permissive. I would implement a variable turning rate based on the mech mass and current speed.
I always felt this was a primary issue. No stumbles, slips, skids, terrain/environmental interaction and slow downs, etc, etc. Im not saying we need to fall on our faces, but there needs to be a drawback to speed.
#1267
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- 4 posts
Rookie
Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:44 AM
Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:
OR
Learn to play
Learn to play
Troll
#1269
Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:43 PM
Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:
OR
Learn to play
Learn to play
You must be one of those light 'mech pilots who believe that they are "skilled" because they can smack into larger 'mechs legs, out turn them, and seemingly never be touched by their fire.
If this ever gets fixed, you are in for a rude awakening, because when this does get fixed, all the rest of us will have had months and months of practice at near impossible kills and with teleporting eliminated, or at least significantly reduced, you will die, endlessly.
#1270
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- 17 posts
Member
Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:46 PM
I'm a Jenner pilot, and I have to agree with this. Killing teleporting lights is painful.
#1271
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- 1 posts
Rookie
Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:55 AM
Here´s my feedback to the current patch situation of the game:
-LRM´s: The unguided version of the LRM´s seem a bit underpowered now, even after firing several rocket volleys at an enemy cat didnt bring much results. (Maybe 4% after 5 Double LRM 15 Salvos which completely Hit)-> So just up the dmg / missile hit ratio a BIT!
On the other hand, the artemis guided LRM´s do fine. And after changing the flight path of the missiles again, the LRM´s arent op anymore, there is the chance to find cover now.
-Heat: I personally like the way HS and DS got balanced. Sure, beam weapons create much heat, but this forces the warrior to think twice about what he is going to launch. Makes big difference to a FPS imho!
-Jenner / Lights Pest: Still, the hitbox problem of light mechs isn´t solved. We played for hours after the last patch now and had almost immortal jenners (and some other lights as well) over and over again. So I tried a Jenner for myself....well, scoring kills is just pieca cake while it takes ages to get killed (as long as the mech wont stop, and even then it seems to be a 50 ton mech, not a 35ton version)
-Lag: The lag situation has gotten worse since the last patch, rubberbanding mechs now is a common seen problem.
-FPS Bug: From time to time, a match starts, and the game fps drop below an unplayable grade. It seems like it has something to do with the direction into which the mech looks. Restarting the client is the only solution so far.
-Phase 1 of the matchmaker:
I personally like the change of phase one. Despite the many cries of 8 man teams (which are also understandable), its seems that the win / lose ratio has changed to a much more bearable level. I am really curious about phase 2 (and the cries of the teams, who can´t go roflstomp pug´s anymore...)
Things that have to be implemented pretty quickly into the game:
-Social hub / chat where new players can find teammates / help (or the chance to discuss
a match with the random teammates you just rocked with)
-Possibility to set up / change weapon groups at the mech lab
-Neutral training ground for new players to get familiar with the controlls (the training
videos are a 1st step, bit still new players get frustrated by getting killed on the battlefield
without even being familiar with the controlls of their mech)
-LRM´s: The unguided version of the LRM´s seem a bit underpowered now, even after firing several rocket volleys at an enemy cat didnt bring much results. (Maybe 4% after 5 Double LRM 15 Salvos which completely Hit)-> So just up the dmg / missile hit ratio a BIT!
On the other hand, the artemis guided LRM´s do fine. And after changing the flight path of the missiles again, the LRM´s arent op anymore, there is the chance to find cover now.
-Heat: I personally like the way HS and DS got balanced. Sure, beam weapons create much heat, but this forces the warrior to think twice about what he is going to launch. Makes big difference to a FPS imho!
-Jenner / Lights Pest: Still, the hitbox problem of light mechs isn´t solved. We played for hours after the last patch now and had almost immortal jenners (and some other lights as well) over and over again. So I tried a Jenner for myself....well, scoring kills is just pieca cake while it takes ages to get killed (as long as the mech wont stop, and even then it seems to be a 50 ton mech, not a 35ton version)
-Lag: The lag situation has gotten worse since the last patch, rubberbanding mechs now is a common seen problem.
-FPS Bug: From time to time, a match starts, and the game fps drop below an unplayable grade. It seems like it has something to do with the direction into which the mech looks. Restarting the client is the only solution so far.
-Phase 1 of the matchmaker:
I personally like the change of phase one. Despite the many cries of 8 man teams (which are also understandable), its seems that the win / lose ratio has changed to a much more bearable level. I am really curious about phase 2 (and the cries of the teams, who can´t go roflstomp pug´s anymore...)
Things that have to be implemented pretty quickly into the game:
-Social hub / chat where new players can find teammates / help (or the chance to discuss
a match with the random teammates you just rocked with)
-Possibility to set up / change weapon groups at the mech lab
-Neutral training ground for new players to get familiar with the controlls (the training
videos are a 1st step, bit still new players get frustrated by getting killed on the battlefield
without even being familiar with the controlls of their mech)
#1272
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- 25 posts
Member
Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:07 AM
1) Screen gets dark when you get hit and it stays dark even after the incoming fire has stopped.
2) After overheating and auto shutdown the mech goes back up on but there is no hud or cross hair. The cockpit is still in shutdown state although the mech has powered on and is moving.
Workaround: Manually power down and on.
3) Sometimes you cannot cap enemy base
4) Forest colony (not snow) is still unplayable due to very drastic fps drops. This issue is known so long that I would consider removing this map from the pool as it looks like the effort to fix this is bigger than creating a new map.
5) Changes to mech in mechlab (for example buying new weapons) are not being saved although the equipment is being purchased. The mechlab freezes when the Save Mech button is clicked however you can still exit game.
Workaround: Exit game and install bought equipment which is in your depo not on the mech.
2) After overheating and auto shutdown the mech goes back up on but there is no hud or cross hair. The cockpit is still in shutdown state although the mech has powered on and is moving.
Workaround: Manually power down and on.
3) Sometimes you cannot cap enemy base
4) Forest colony (not snow) is still unplayable due to very drastic fps drops. This issue is known so long that I would consider removing this map from the pool as it looks like the effort to fix this is bigger than creating a new map.
5) Changes to mech in mechlab (for example buying new weapons) are not being saved although the equipment is being purchased. The mechlab freezes when the Save Mech button is clicked however you can still exit game.
Workaround: Exit game and install bought equipment which is in your depo not on the mech.
#1273
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- 4 posts
Rookie
- LocationMunich, Germany
Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:14 AM
Nightdrake, on 13 November 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:
Heres my feedback to the current patch situation of the game:
-LRMs: The unguided version of the LRMs seems a bit underpowered now, even after firing several rocket volleys at an enemy cat didnt bring much results. (Maybe 4% after 5 Double LRM 15 Salvos which completely Hit)-> So just up the dmg / missile hit ratio a BIT!
-LRMs: The unguided version of the LRMs seems a bit underpowered now, even after firing several rocket volleys at an enemy cat didnt bring much results. (Maybe 4% after 5 Double LRM 15 Salvos which completely Hit)-> So just up the dmg / missile hit ratio a BIT!
Agreed, not much change needed, but a slight up in damage would work.
Quote
-Heat: I personally like the way HS and DS got balanced. Sure, beam weapons create much heat, but this forces the warrior to think twice about what he is going to launch. Makes big difference to a FPS imho!
Yeah, I really liked how I had to balance my Hunchback with this. Do I use DS, or better armor? Lots of important design decisions now.
Quote
-Jenner / Lights Pest: Still, the hitbox problem of light mechs isn´t solved. We played for hours after the last patch now and had almost immortal jenners (and some other lights as well) over and over again. So I tried a Jenner for myself....well, scoring kills is just pieca cake while it takes ages to get killed (as long as the mech wont stop, and even then it seems to be a 50 ton mech, not a 35ton version)
Haven't observed this with Ravens, but then I haven't seen many Ravens on the battleground, Jenner seems to be the favorite light mech. And yes, it seems difficult to near impossible to score hits on a moving Jenner. Lag shield? Hitbox now too small? No idea. Damaging a standing Jenner works fine, so it's (as far as I can tell) not a problem with their damage model.
Quote
-FPS Bug: From time to time, a match starts, and the game fps drop below an unplayable grade. It seems like it has something to do with the direction into which the mech looks. Restarting the client is the only solution so far.
Indeed. Caustic Valley seems to be the epicenter of this bug, as here I encounter this bug a lot more often than on any other map.
-Phase 1 of the matchmaker:
Quote
I personally like the change of phase one. Despite the many cries of 8 man teams (which are also understandable), its seems that the win / lose ratio has changed to a much more bearable level. I am really curious about phase 2 (and the cries of the teams, who can´t go roflstomp pug´s anymore...)
Well, Mech Lances are organized in groups of 4, so it's in line with the lore.
But until Community Warfare there'll most likely always be unhappy people.Quote
Things that have to be implemented pretty quickly into the game:
-Social hub / chat where new players can find teammates / help (or the chance to discuss
a match with the random teammates you just rocked with)
-Social hub / chat where new players can find teammates / help (or the chance to discuss
a match with the random teammates you just rocked with)
Agreed, would be really nice to have.
Quote
-Possibility to set up / change weapon groups at the mech lab
Oh god, PLEASE, yes!
Quote
-Neutral training ground for new players to get familiar with the controlls (the training
videos are a 1st step, bit still new players get frustrated by getting killed on the battlefield
without even being familiar with the controlls of their mech)
videos are a 1st step, bit still new players get frustrated by getting killed on the battlefield
without even being familiar with the controlls of their mech)
Agreed, might also be nice to try out new builds for experienced players (heat build up, etc.)
Oh, and it would be really nice if it would be possible to still write in the chat when the Score Screen is up!
#1274
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- 77 posts
Member
- LocationInnsbruck - Austria
Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:25 AM
I cant agree with the part saying that the artemis guided LRM do fine but everything else is a really good summary!
#1275
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- Knight Errant
- 168 posts
Member
- LocationRegensburg, Germany
Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:34 AM
I strongly agree.
Especially the jenner thing... -.-
Especially the jenner thing... -.-
#1276
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- 283 posts
Member
- LocationBehind You!
Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:25 PM
Something is different today.
I am getting damage glitching like crazy. I got cored with armor on still.
My heat warning is not working sometimes so i just power down in the middle of a fight.
An i getting large lag jitters were i will warp a few mech lengths away.
Anyone else notice any of the above? This has never happen to me before.
I am getting damage glitching like crazy. I got cored with armor on still.
My heat warning is not working sometimes so i just power down in the middle of a fight.
An i getting large lag jitters were i will warp a few mech lengths away.
Anyone else notice any of the above? This has never happen to me before.
#1277
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- Shredder
- 1,307 posts
Member
- LocationLuthien
Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:27 PM
Alcatraz968, on 13 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:
Something is different today.
I am getting damage glitching like crazy. I got cored with armor on still.
My heat warning is not working sometimes so i just power down in the middle of a fight.
An i getting large lag jitters were i will warp a few mech lengths away.
Anyone else notice any of the above? This has never happen to me before.
I am getting damage glitching like crazy. I got cored with armor on still.
My heat warning is not working sometimes so i just power down in the middle of a fight.
An i getting large lag jitters were i will warp a few mech lengths away.
Anyone else notice any of the above? This has never happen to me before.
All this has happened since last patch.
Welcome to closed beta back in March.
#1278
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- Legendary Founder
- 288 posts
Member
Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:27 PM
They're probably just doing some testing or something like that.
#1280
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- Veteran Founder
- 742 posts
Member
Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:45 PM
4 med laser jenner is much hotter today and getting cored by streaks again. Was there a ninja patch when we all got kicked today?
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