1392 replies to this topic

[Waladil]

Tell you what. I'll play 3 matches in a moment with auto R/R off. They'll be 100% PUG on my part, no grouping, but I will play to win. I'll log my various W/L data, my income, and my Founder's bonus. Then I'll log my various payments on R/R after those games, and do some data analysis. Watch this post for incoming data, then.

[RadimentriX]

20k for ammo... not much... my CN9-A needs ~40k just for ammo. no DHS yet but endo (which costs nothing in repair as far as i noticed). complete rearm+repair after death ~50-80k

ferro is expensive. have it on my DRG-1N atm. ~60k only for armor-repair after death.

how much is the DHS-repair? heard that xl-engines aren't that expensive

[Trinton]

Bagheera, on 07 November 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Confirmed. By adding the engine last, I can squeeze out anywhere from 1-4 slots over what should be possible with endo on that mech. Meaning that I am left over with 10-13 "structure slots" which is less than the required 14 for endo steel.

I was able to do this, but wasn't allowed to launch in a game with the mech. It gave me some kind of "invalid loadout" error. That was pre-patch though.

[twibs]

I don't have any problem with my dynamic structures. They move just fine.

[klez]

How about we quit whining about a beta patch. You're worried about "LRMwarrior?" How about "MMOfansconstantlycomplainabouteverythingandareterribleonforumswarrior"

[DarkCain]

Right now, LRMs are the tack drivers of the game. Watching Atlases getting head capped by LRMs on a regular basis now due to the new flight pathing. This needs to go back into testing. The pre-patch LRM flight paths were better. It only gets worse when the Artemis is added.

These LRMs need a counter of some sort. AMS is not cutting it. I like LRMs as much as the next guy, but this is absurd. On the bright side, at least no one will be complaining about Gausspults any more. They will be too busy looking for cover from the LRM rain to notice.

Most of the players in my group have stopped playing with this patch going live. Mostly due to the 4 man restriction. The common response to the stoppage is see you in two weeks. Hope they fix this mistake.

The 4 man group is a no go. Find something better. Easy to tell the 4 man group apart from the pugs as the pugs run off and do their own thing (getting killed in the process). Forcing the premades to fight alongside 4 pugs is just ******* people off. It has broken up the unit cohesion factor of the game.

Guess I needed some time off from MWO as well.

[HellJumper]

whiners will always whine. as simple as that..


8 man premades teams..whiners on forums
4 man group implemented..still whiners

and after 2 weeks WHEN 8 man teams will go against 8 man teams.. guess what?? some one will whine again.. Why?? causes its not easy to stomp merc units as compared to PUGS...so keep whinning OP

i will see ur unit on the field in an 8 man premade and see how you do then,,,

[Dig Bickerson]

CobaltFire, on 07 November 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

TL;DR: It's a necessary evil if you want to play a AAA MMO title with a free option.

Yeah I understand that they have to include a grind to give the players an incentive to make purchase, PGI needs money one way or another so they can pay their employees for the hard work they're doing and so they can keep working on the game.

I want to support them with purchases but I think the mech prices are too high, but that's another story for another topic.

[AceTimberwolf]

Knyght, on 07 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

1. Learn to English, please. Could care less indeed.
2. If you don't care about anyone else's opinion, why are you whining on a public forum?

English is descriptive when coming from a native speaker making all forms of English written or spoken grammatical. Linguistics 101. Since meaning can still be derived careless and care less are understood regardless looking at context. Prescriptive if not native language then he would be wrong as it is the basic grammatical structure that it should be "careless" when written.

[BlindPR]

I'm piloting Dragon:
endo-steel
xl engine
gauss
large pulse
and some heatsinks
with that configuration of mech when i'm loose the fight i paid about a 80-100k c-bills for repair, when i'm win 40-60k c-bills.
it's too much for f2p player.

sry for my bad english:)

[Waladil]

Okay. Here's my data from the games I promised:


Mech info:
AWS-8R
240 std engine
Endo Steel internal
TAG laser (head)
4x Artemis LRM-15 (L/R torso)
8 tons ALRM ammo (1440 missiles)
18 Single HS


P/L: Profit/Loss
HTP: Hypothetical Trial Profit (If you played this exact game in a trial mech, so 1/4 of income, not counting Founder's bonus, no repair/rearm)
EPB: Effective Premium Bonus: The percent increase in post-game profit from Premium time

Match 1: Forest Colony (Snow)
Victory? Yes
Income: 254,417
Premium: 84,806
Natural: 169,611
Repair: 19,300
Re-arm: 105,210
Notes: 5 kills, moderate armor damage, light internal damage, appr. 1100 missiles fired
P/L: 129,907
P/L WO Premium: 45,101
HTP: 42,503
EPB: 288%

Match 2: River City
Victory? No
Income: 138,870
Premium: 46,290
Natural: 92,580
Repair: 41,570
Re-arm: 75,150
Notes: Battle started at 7v8 (my team down 1). Killed 1, died to Atlas reasonably early (4th death in match or so), major damage. Unknown missile usage (300?). Suspected ammo explosion, unexpectedly high ammo replace costs.
P/L: 22,150
P/L WO Premium: -24,140
HTP: 23,145
EPB: Note 1

Match 3: Forest Colony
Victory?
Income:
Premium:
Repair:
Re-arm:
Notes: OUTLIER BATTLE: Got stuck in an unescapable hole, unable to move. Killed by enemy forces. Data not recorded.

Match 4: Forest Colony
Victory? Yes (Capture; 1 surviving enemy)
Income: 232,122
Premium: 77,374
Natural: 154,748
Repair: 10,955
Re-arm: 120,240
Notes: 4 kills, all 1440 missiles fired. No internal damage, light/moderate armor damage.
P/L: 100,927
P/L WO Premium: 23,553
HTP: 38,687
EPB: 261%



Note 1: I don''t have a good way to calculate the EPB when it turns a loss into a profit. Denoting it as -91% feels very wrong.
Post-Battle Analysis: Looking at the numbers, I'm rather surprised at the values. I've been making far less than I felt. HOWEVER, this 'Mech is using Artemis-IV, and the missiles for that cost 2x as much as standard LRMs. If I were using the same 'Mech but with standard LRMs, my profit numbers would be FAR better, and the EPB would be considerably lower. (For match 4 my P/L would have been 161,047, and the EPB would be just 192%)

Oftentimes, the HTP number I calculated was higher than my non-premium paycheck, and was consistently 20-50k each match. It seems that playing with Trial 'Mechs is greatly more profitable. HOWEVER, notice the kill counts I walked away with. 10 across 3 recorded games. If I hadn't performed so well, my team might well have lost those matches. If I were piloting a Trial 'Mech, I'd be far less effective and therefore the team would be far weaker and more likely to lose. Compare the value of losing in a Trial 'Mech (23,145) to winning in a personalized one (45,101). Also, in a Trial 'Mech the numbers would have been worse; less component destruction, kill value, and assist value. (Actually, probably more assist value. In my matches, I tended to kill my targets rather than get assists on their deaths.)

Therefore, at large 'Mech sizes, owning your own 'Mech does not neccesarily directly improve your personal profit, but it does increase the chance of victory and therefore profit.

[Frenchtoastman]

They've stated the straight-down flightpath of missiles IS a bug that will be fixed sometime Thursday/today. LRMs will also be getting weaker by having their pattern a little more spread out (even the artemis ones will be 5% more spread than current), and their 2damage-per-missile will be cut down to 1.7damage-per-missile.

I'd love to know why they keep hating on the big laser/PPC/ER weapons too. Hopefully they'll receive some much needed love soon.

[GL Chozo4]

Jyi, on 07 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Gauss, however, seems to get more arguments saying "it's ok, it's not that good". I don't think so. I don't think it has enough flaws currently.

One flaw it should've had I'm noticing that it's missing is the fact that when struck.. the gauss rifle itself should explode rather violently when damaged. Although still mitigated through the use of CASE... many players do not use it I notice for the sake of that extra 0.5T.

Edited by GL Chozo4, 08 November 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[Frenchtoastman]

Also, remember that trial mechs losing will still earn at least 60,000 (usually 65,000), wins in a trial average 85,000-95,000 (and minimum 80,000).

So your matches, without premium and with REGULAR LRM prices would've equaled roughly; 97,000 and 14,000 and 83,500.
Your wins look the same as trials, but your loses only get 1/4 as much as a trial. Not much reward VS risk going on I'd say..Looks like mostly risk.


Very good/thorough information though, thanks.

Edited by Frenchtoastman, 08 November 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[RedBaron372]

Waladil, on 08 November 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

HTP: Hypothetical Trial Profit (If you played this exact game in a trial mech, so 1/4 of income, not counting Founder's bonus, no repair/rearm)

Actually trial mechs are 75% of earnings not 25%

[Xerxys]

Please keep in mind that this is newly implemented and does actually need to be tested thoroughly. I have to admit that the increase in damage from missiles is a bit much, especially when you're increasing the accuracy and decreasing the spread of the damage.

I'm sure it will all calm down eventually, but it is really boring at the moment. The first 5-10 minutes is like a fireworks show with all the LRMs flying through the air, and if you stick your head out of cover you're going to be decapitated in short order.

People can say that you just have to duck behind cover and do all these crazy things to avoid them. The only thing I can think at this time is that the people saying this garbage are the ones popping off the LRMs. I've played for a couple months now on my Jenner or some other light mech, and I became quite adept at avoiding those damned things but none of it works anymore. I really with that the missiles system hadn't changed because I think the old way was a perfect setup. It took them forever to get them right in closed beta too but they did get them straightened out. We'll just have to have some patience and endure these growing pains.

Perhaps the other systems will help to counter this, but as it stands now you're going to have to double up on defenses to have a chance. I truly hope this is fixed soon as I have heard people who are running the missiles complain that they're way OP. I don't run them, so just have the one end of things to compare from.

The team play is a lot more fun because you're able to talk to your buddies while you're running around killing ****, and I truly do miss it. I will be exceedingly happy come the 20th and will be able to face off against other merc groups or clans.

Edited by Xerxys, 08 November 2012 - 02:05 AM.

[Zylox]

DaveKell, on 07 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Seems like a lot of writing on things they are working on already. 2 WEEKS! and 8 mans will be back, get over it.
TT nerds need to go play tt FFS.
This game is not able to implement the things straight across.
We fire 3 times faster than TT this is why we have double the armor. I take it you weren't around when mechs only lived 10 seconds because the high fire rate low armor. Do you really want to fire TT rules? this game would die over night.

You realize it was "TT nerds" who made this game possible. Stop being such a jerk.

[Ohgodtherats]

Specs:
AMD FX 8150 @3.6GHZ
12 Gigs RAM
AMD HD 7950 3gig Black Edition
Windows 7 64bit
1920x1080 Motion blur Low everything else set to high

1. When I die or I kill another mech the head disappears and you can see the cockpit internals in the 3rd person view.
2. My favorite mechs frequently disappear and need to be re-selected through the mech lab.
3. Alt-tabbing back to the client crashes it about a quarter of the time, no error messages.
4. Sometimes the client crashes during a match (infrequently) again no error messages.
5. Once, when changing heatsink types in my founders jennner, the founders hunchback (which I don't have) was displayed. Saving fixed it.
6. LRM flight paths are borked but you knew that per the Kotaku interview.
7. When a jumpjet equipped mech is killed in flight the jumpjet sound continues forever.
8. Cherry red mech corpses never cool.
9. Atlas eye-glow is either very turned down or entirely absent.
10. Mech on mech collisions and jumpjet usage results in rubber banding for a few seconds. No other significant lag issues.

Going forward, LRM's need a rebalancing outside of the pathing fix. I don't believe that they are as broken as your average frothing at the mouth post would suggest, but what really needs to be decided is whether or not LRM's are to be a main weapon. If yes, then maybe some damage reduction is in order but not much else. However, if the answer is LRM's are to be a support weapon, then we really need to rethink how LRM's work. As it stands, with no Narc or Tag enabled, if lock is maintained and no cover is found, basically all LRM's launched will hit the target. This far outside TT rules and while I understand this isn't TT and it shouldn't be TT, the devs need to figure out whether missile boats are going to be a must have or just another choice.

PS: With narc and tag active on target, I have seen a full health atlas go from okay to scrap in 3 full LRM salvo's. Granted, this was with current LRM pathing bugs... but one LRM boat should really not be able toast the baddest assault in the game in under ten seconds, even with narc + tag assistance.

[Spawnsalot]

AceTimberwolf, on 08 November 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

English is descriptive when coming from a native speaker making all forms of English written or spoken grammatical. Linguistics 101. Since meaning can still be derived careless and care less are understood regardless looking at context. Prescriptive if not native language then he would be wrong as it is the basic grammatical structure that it should be "careless" when written.

I think you'll find he's talking about the "could" part of that phrase - you "could care less" meaning you have more care to give etc. The phrase is "Couldn't care less" meaning you don't care one whit about the topic.

Sorry, this is a pet hate of mine along with people who use "welp" when they mean "well" because they heard it somewhere where the speaker cuts the word short. It's akin to pushing a corkscrew down my ear.

/rant off

Cheers

[Ronsu]

NoxMorbis, on 07 November 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

(4) Conclusion: Good bye MWO. Was fun while it lasted. I'll be checking back now and again, but it was continually getting more and more boring with the "balance" you put in. I hope your pugs can support your efforts because that's who you're playing to. When I'm forced to play with strangers, that's not gonna go with me.
meh

LOL WAT?

You cant wait for 2 weeks, not to mention "BETA"?

Ok, good luck with your future endeavours.