116 replies to this topic

[Salient]

Yeah this really hurts the immersion... but its as if they knew they were going to make this game LRM hell...

[Compit]

First the ability to "Tackle" your enemy and now the impact of lrms. This gaming is losing immersion rapidly if you ask me.

I consider the shaking vital for survival. if you get hit by lrm you can often judge the amount of trouble you are in. if you get hit by missiles and shake a little you know you are being targeted and should be carefull. if you shake a lot you know you are being hit hard and should dive for cover immediatly. Just getting "Incoming missiles" doesn't give me the idea of getting hit. i might be getting hit by a few LRM5 from a light mech....or i might be getting pounded by a catapult's lrm20 barrage, only way to tell is by how fast my armor dissapears...which is too late if i get hit...hard.

[ZodiacX]

I have to agree with you compit, though the hope is that they will reintroduce collision mechanics once they find a setup they feel is more workable... though personally I had no problem with where it was just before they removed it.

[Redlor Fidelious]

I knew this thread had to exist somewhere, I didnt want to create "yet another lrm thread". thank god I didn't have to.

Just got taken out by the lrm rain falling on my head. As I was 100% engrossed in lining up my gauss shots I heeded little attention to 1) the incoming missile warning and 2) the paperdoll info.

The lack of "explosions" and "rocking" seen in previous patches gave me no other audio or visual queues. 1) as stated previously by Devs, missile paths are crazy now. 2) there was a lack of LOUD explosion sounds in my headhphones.

Need more seizure causing flashes and loud bangs plz. k.tks.bai.

Edited by Redlor Fidelious, 07 November 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

I will freely admit that the cockpit rock from AC-2s and Streaks were WAY overboard. That said, their should be SOME impact impulse, I have to admit (and hey, I need to pay better attention) that I have been rear cored more since the patch, because I don't realize I am getting hit (usually whilst hotly involved with a mech in front of me) until: BANG.

Dead. Added into it the "No armor, one crit, anywhere, you die" bug, and well, ouch.

Anyhow, not a nerd rage "imma gonna quit" rant, just an observation. Bring back cockpit shake, please, just tone it down some from where it was, ya know?

[Meatsnacks]

Agree 100%. I was getting hit by missiles from behind and I didn't even know it at one point.

[GL Chozo4]

Honestly, the shake was fine before but we needed a more violent shake from other weaponry such as autocannons or gauss rifles really. I mean when you're being slammed by massive high-speed slugs you really need to jerk from it. Add in a heavy alpha strike from the such causing knockdowns on lighter mechs would be nice.

.. sorry, being reminiscent of gameplay from the older mech versions.

[Bishop Steiner]

GL Chozo4, on 07 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Honestly, the shake was fine before but we needed a more violent shake from other weaponry such as autocannons or gauss rifles really. I mean when you're being slammed by massive high-speed slugs you really need to jerk from it. Add in a heavy alpha strike from the such causing knockdowns on lighter mechs would be nice.

.. sorry, being reminiscent of gameplay from the older mech versions.

Naw, no complaints.

I do feel that an AC/2 and Streak were a little over board with their damage impulse, as a 100 ton mech should not get rocked THAT hard by two of the lightest weapons on the field. I do think AC/20, Gauss and PPCs all should have harder rocks, balance offset by their slower cycle times.

[Caleb Lee]

Yes, but with moderation. The problem was AC2s and Streak-2s knock was WAY too high. It should be based on the mech size. If you are a light mech getting hit, it should move you around more. Cockpit shake/knock should be based on the size of the mech and the type/size and kinetic force of the weapon used.

I.E. AC 20 should hit and you know it, even in an Assault. AC 2 on a heavy mech, barely nudge it. Same for streaks. Maybe slightly dim the lights type thing.

2 Streak-6s when introduced should do what the Streak-2 was doing prior to this patch.

Gauss rifle should knock you around a bit. LRM 20s should knock you around. LRM 5s, not so much... least last patch they were as bad as Streaks and cycling 6 LRM-5s would reduce the accuracy of any mech, even Assaults.

[GL Chozo4]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Naw, no complaints.

I do feel that an AC/2 and Streak were a little over board with their damage impulse, as a 100 ton mech should not get rocked THAT hard by two of the lightest weapons on the field. I do think AC/20, Gauss and PPCs all should have harder rocks, balance offset by their slower cycle times.

Can't help but figure to add on that perhaps the rocking/shaking should also be offset by the following criteria. Basing off cycle times wouldn't be such a great idea considering lasers (excluding ppc's) aren't such a 'high' impact for example but can effectively slice through the armour so shouldn't have such a great overall 'impact'.

1) Battlemech weight
--- The rocking should scale based on the damage taken and the weight/speed of the battlemech. Faster mechs would be knocked more 'off keel' due to greater potential instability at their speed while slower would be more stable overall. Further the weight of the mech would offset it as well so harder hits will phase an atlas far less for example than say a raven.
2) The payload of a collective group of hits.
--- The tighter the group of some shots (like 2 hits from a split second apart from the same time from multiple sources) should increase the rock if from a similar side due to greater collective force. So lighter hits from a few streaks wouldn't do as much while a massive payload of say... 12+ streaks would cause a somewhat harder rock. Same for AC/2's since the damage is light it wouldn't do much at all lest it was a grouping of many of them causing a greater impact. Though, there should overall be a diminishing return on the impact due to resistance based on mech weight such as say.. a max collective impact of 1.5x based on the total damage inflicted and count of hits.
3) The direction of the hit
--- Say swallowing a massive payload to the upper centre torso as an atlas and you're facing the target but moving in reverse. The impact/rock should be greater as it pushes you harder backward into your current inertia direction making your knock rock upward more than if you were going forward into them. The inverse would work if you take a shot from the back while moving forward and taking an upper hit. This would be again based off the overall weight/speed of the mech.

Quite frankly, mw4 had this idea pretty well done but it simply pissed a lot of people off when you chainfired your standard AC/20's or ppc's. Would feel like you nearly got knocked on your arse as a raven (nearly facing your feet) but shrugged it off some as an atlas. XD


EDIT: Would be nice also if an ammo explosion blowout really rocked you around in the direction it occurred but that's unrelated to this topic...

Edited by GL Chozo4, 07 November 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Raven-kell]

I have no knock from missiles at all! I'm not paying attention to the missile incoming because I'm running at 129 kph. Then I'm dead........no missile shakey is wrongy.

[MechTyson]

GL Chozo4, on 07 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

3) The direction of the hit
--- Say swallowing a massive payload to the upper centre torso as an atlas and you're facing the target but moving in reverse. The impact/rock should be greater as it pushes you harder backward into your current inertia direction making your knock rock upward more than if you were going forward into them. The inverse would work if you take a shot from the back while moving forward and taking an upper hit. This would be again based off the overall weight/speed of the mech.

This doesn't really make any sense. Run toward me and let my punch you in the face. Then run away from me and let my punch you in the back. Then tell me which one rocks you more. L2physics. Its the exact opposite of what you say rocks more (moving toward an incoming object will jar you a lot more than moving away). Opposite vectors will increase the "impact" you experience, thus more "rocking". You will notice this because my fist is only traveling at speeds a few times faster than you can run, so the speed at which you are running is noticeable.

However, most projectiles in this game fly along at incredibly fast velocities (modern day artillery goes about 5760kph. The speed of the mech (anywhere from under just 150Kph down to maybe 48Kph) is honestly about the same speed as your car. Almost all of the force of the impact is coming from the fired projectile. The mechs are moving so slow (relatively) that they add very little energy to the equation. Its a drop in a bucket. In real life, you would not see any noticeable difference in the amount of rock you would experience in your mech, no matter if you are traveling toward or away from the projectile.

I agree with point 1 though. A larger mech, not just in terms of mass, but in the structural engineering that could and would go into a larger mech would make it more able to absorb the impact of weapons.

IMO, i was really disappointed in the rock given by lasers, I always though this game needed a more violent shake from the weaker weapons, but I think that the rock we experience should be shorter. I think it should affect our aiming reticle for a little longer than before, but the camera shake that we see should be reduced some.

[Zwietracht]

i need the rocking & shaking back... played just one round yesterday after the patch and didnt realized that i was hit until one leg went red .... pls give us back all the rocking & shaking!

[Cest7]

needs to shake a little, some visual feedback that I'm about to get owned would be nice.

[GL Chozo4]

Marbhachir, on 08 November 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

This doesn't really make any sense. Run toward me and let my punch you in the face. Then run away from me and let my punch you in the back. Then tell me which one rocks you more. L2physics. Its the exact opposite of what you say rocks more (moving toward an incoming object will jar you a lot more than moving away). Opposite vectors will increase the "impact" you experience, thus more "rocking". You will notice this because my fist is only traveling at speeds a few times faster than you can run, so the speed at which you are running is noticeable.

I was mainly considering the idea of stability for a two-legged mech really rather than impact force in my explanation when it came to jarring ones view/aim. Taking a projectile in the same direction one is moving I had figured would be more jarring due to pushing the object further more off balance and out of step through adding more inertia than they can stably compensate for. While one is moving they are already compensating for the stability with each step whereas a sudden jolt would have to be suddenly compensated with the correction within the next few steps.

I may have explained my ideas rather wrongly for which I apologize or I simply don't get it (and if so, I retract my statement then). I just have a lot of trouble at times summing up my thoughts in one or few passes really.

Edited by GL Chozo4, 08 November 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[Ashnod]

Cockpit shake needs to be returned to how it was pre-patch!

[Aym]

I think cockpit shake is a good thing and perhaps should be equated to the the most damage done to any one location by an attack in proportion to your mech's mass.

[malibu43]

Bump

[xDevineWarriorx]

I loved the way hits shaking my cockpit, cause it´s meant that the dude on the other side of my ac/20 gets some shakes too. No realy please implement it back in these game, we aren´t firing with teardrops so our mech should react in some way.

[Bayamon]

Aym, on 08 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I think cockpit shake is a good thing and perhaps should be equated to the the most damage done to any one location by an attack in proportion to your mech's mass.

This !

Its a much better experience with the shaking.
Also it feels more "real" (like a simulation should) to be rocked about by explosions and it conveys the violence of the impacts much more than the hit indicator.

It also influences gameplay.
I react quite differently to fire coming outside of my FOV when i know whether its Lasers or ACs or Missles(which i can only sometimes tell by sound but mostly by the way my cockpit shakes)

Shooting someone with chained AC2s or a UAC will shake their cockpit enough for them to have trouble amining properly, which works wonders on Gauss snipers or any non Missle weapons fired from long range.
Just that effect alone warrants the use of Lighter Autocannons in my opinion even if they did half the damage.

I always valued the annoyance factor of weapons (in any game realy).
Whenever i had to use LMGs on a Mech i made sure to fire straight at the cockpit because i know how hugely distracting that is.
Also just for the heck of it i sometimes equipped flares in MW4 and shot them at the cockpit to screw with the pilots(i know its not effective but trolling them into using 3rd Person was fun sometimes )

So im for it.
Just make the intensity of the shaking depend on the force of the impact compared to the Mechs weight.