201 replies to this topic

[Garth Erlam]

William Petersen, on 19 April 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Look...harder.

To be fair, he used the qualifier "100%".

[JadeTimberwolf]

Aegis Kleais™, on 19 April 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

IMO, any Clan chassis that is an OmniMech would have some hardpoints that are weapon-type and others that are omni-mounts (allowing for any type of mounting) In the end, it would just provide a wider array of desired loadouts on a single chassis variant.

It is an interesting opinion but the design of an OmniMech is so that it doesn't ever have weapon specific hardpoints, hell in Paper&Pencil MWRPG gameplay if your running an Omni and you have all of the parts for a couple different varients your supposed to be able to change out 1 varient for another as you need while always using the same mech. Some of those varients even have more weapons mounted then the base varient. I know it is going to be at least 2.5 years canonically before we see IS produced OmniMechs so my question may not have a sense of urgency but if we are going to be allowed to play clans right from the start of the clan invasions that is less then a year away canon.

[mbt201188]

I love this version of the Mechlab. Sounds like PGI pretty much fixed all the compaints I've ever had with it.

[William Petersen]

Garth Erlam, on 19 April 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

To be fair, he used the qualifier "100%".

He's telling me that I was using an assumption that I acknowledged I was using. That's all I was saying. =P

[theshield2004]

From what I have read on the Dev Blogs...this game is going to kick serious ***! Obviously there are many things that need to be implemented correctly, including a well working mech-lab and a well set up economic system. I think that the balance in game matches is going to be key. Its good to know that they are really looking at almost every angle. Some games you can buy for 50 bucks brand new and the Dev team responsible didn't put in half the time or effort PGI has. Looking forward to the open beta.

[nitra]

while the mechlab and the hardpoint limitation is going to be a great equalizer.

It will overall end up gimping every innersphere mech introduced with the game in the long run.

unless they will not introduce the clan mechs, which is the only way they will be able to keep the game balanced .

Other wise all clan mechs will just stomp all over the innersphere mechs and it will not be to long before the innersphere mechs are no longer played with.

quite a shame actually .

[MaddMaxx]

I believe those that fought at Tukkayid would beg to differ.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 April 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Teamwork > awesome single guy /mech = fact

[Thomas Hogarth]

team of guys in awesome 'Mechs>team of guys in balanced 'Mechs = fact

[Pht]

InnerSphereNews, on 18 April 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

How will engine upgrades (or downgrades) be handled in the MechLab? –Curon Hifor
[DAVID] You don’t really upgrade an engine so much as buy a new one to replace the old. If you buy an engine with a different engine rating and/or type (Standard, XL, etc.), you simply put it in place of the old one and your ’Mech’s new top speed will be automatically recalculated.

So, if I upgrade to an XL from a normal fusion engine in a mech with weapons that used to take up the top three crits in the mech as it existed in the game, and there was other stuff in the mech in that side torso taking up all of the other crits in that torso ...

Does the weapon slot disappear?

Or do XL engines not take up extra spaces?

Quote

Lets say I take an Awesome, normally with 3 PPCs, 1 small laser. Then I modify it to its maximum theoreitcaly extent, that is to say 10 medium lasers. Will this be possible, or could the hardpoint system further restrict so there's a maximum number of smaller weapons that could replace a larger one to help prevent crazy boating? –CapperDeluxe

[DAVID] The hardpoint system will be related to how many weapons are in the default loadout, and not how many slots those weapons take up.

Isnt this system a little rigid? If i got this right you can only downgrade weapons because you couldnt fit a bigger weapon into the hardpoints even if you reduced armor. –Rutok

[DAVID] Hardpoints will limit the number of weapons that can be placed in a location on the ’Mech. The number of slots those weapons can occupy is not predefined (outside of the maximum number of slots in the location). So let’s say that I’m allowed 2 energy weapons in my right arm. I currently have 2 Medium Lasers which occupy 1 slot each. I would still be allowed to put in 2 Large Lasers, which occupy 2 slots each.

So an awesome can only mount ONE energy weapon of any type where a PPC was? ... even a small laser?

Quote

I bet this will be covered and should be straightforward, but, if you wanted to replace a PPC with two medium lasers, would you need to buy three medium lasers? or would you simply buy one and have it available when you want a medium laser for something. –zudukai

[PAUL] I’m not sure what you mean here. If you pull a PPC out of a hard point and you want to put 2 medium lasers in its place, there’s nothing stopping you from doing so. Just go to the store, buy 2 medium lasers, remove the PPC, put the 2 medium lasers in its space and Bob’s yer uncle! If you’re thinking that the PPC’s 3 critical slots must be filled with 3 medium lasers, then no, you don’t have to do that.

what ... who... where?

Which is it? Weapons hard points are based off of the number of weapons in a mech in the parent system or off of the space any weapon takes up in the parent system?


Something is being left out...


Can we ditch the lingo and make this clear? IE, use "size," or something like that, not hardpoint, critical, etc... ?

------------

As an example... If I take the awesome, which has 3 ppcs and 1 small laser, and i pull all of the weapons out, would it show 4 spaces of the same size in the mechlab?

Or would it show three spaces, with each of those three spaces being three spaces big (where the ppcs were), and one space that is one space big (where the small laser was)?

--------------


The answer part of this question and answer on this topic is confusing!

[Vulpesveritas]

Team of guys in mechs' they're good at piloting > Team of guys in awesome mechs' who are piloting them on stats alone and aren't used to them, don't suit their playstyle, and/or are all one type and therefore able to be countered.

[BFett]

Here is a summary of what I think the developers are saying:
1 weapon = 1 Hard Point  Meaning if you have a PPC and you remove it, you can only put 1 laser type weapon in it's place.
Only weapons of the same type can be put in the same location (similar to MW4)
There are multiple critical points on a mech which are for armor, heat sinks, and electronics.
There are multiple variants of any given mech, each having different Hard Point systems.
Did I miss anything?

[syngyne]

Pht, on 19 April 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Which is it? Weapons hard points are based off of the number of weapons in a mech in the parent system or off of the space any weapon takes up in the parent system?

Something is being left out...

Can we ditch the lingo and make this clear? IE, use "size," or something like that, not hardpoint, critical, etc... ?

The answer part of this question and answer on this topic is [b]confusing!

I have no idea why people keep getting confused on the hardpoint/critical issue. It's really not that hard, guys.

You have a location on a 'Mech. That location has critical spaces. This tells you how much physical room you have to put something. This can be weapons, part of your engine, ammo, whatever. The critical spaces don't care what you put in them, only that whatever you're trying to put in will fit.

The location also has hardpoints. These are basically sockets you can plug weapons into (call them power hookups, ammo feeds, whatever makes it easier to picture). Hardpoints can only have specific types of weapons plugged into them. The hardpoints don't care how big the weapon is, only that it's got a matching plug, and you can only plug in one weapon per hardpoint.

So you need two things in order to be able to mount a weapon in a location: the physical space for it to sit in(crits), and a socket of the appropriate type to plug it into(hardpoint).

Say you have a location with 4 free criticals, 2 ballistic hardpoints, and an energy hardpoint. In this location, you can plug in a PPC, because it has both the room (4 crits, 3 needed by PPC) and a free socket (PPC needs an energy hardpoint). You could also fit two machineguns (2 crits, 2 ballistic hardpoints). You could not, however, fit two medium lasers, because while they'd fit physically (2 crits) there aren't enough sockets for them (needs 2 energy hardpoints, location only has one). You could, however, fit a large laser (2 crits, 1 energy hardpoint) and two machineguns (2 crits, 2 ballistic hardpoints).

It sounds like people keep trying to link hardpoints and crits together, as in "this energy hardpoint has two crit slots available," but that's not the case. They're completely separate things. The only thing that links them together is that they both apply to a particular location on a 'Mech.

As for this:

Quote

So an awesome can only mount ONE energy weapon of any type where a PPC was? ... even a small laser?

If it only had one energy weapon hardpoint in that location, yes. If you pull the PPC, it frees up one energy hardpoint, into which you could plug only one other weapon.

However, as the devs posted in this thread earlier, the base 'Mech config may actually have extra hardpoints above what its base loadout requires, it's just that they're not being used because the 'Mech is already at its weight limit. So, for the Awesome, while it only has one PPC mounted in its arms, there may actually be two or three total energy hardpoints there, it's just that there's only one in use by the base loadout.

[Deman Wolf]

Hmm I love to see what mech will be at the start. Will it be a mix of both Clan and Inner sphere? Or just InnerSphere to start and add clan mechs in the futture.

For my 2 best mechs are the DireWolf, and shadow cat.

Assault , and a medium.

[Hayashi]

syngyne, on 19 April 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I have no idea why people keep getting confused on the hardpoint/critical issue. It's really not that hard, guys.

It sounds like people keep trying to link hardpoints and crits together, as in "this energy hardpoint has two crit slots available," but that's not the case. They're completely separate things. The only thing that links them together is that they both apply to a particular location on a 'Mech.

I think it's because MW4 linked them together, and for some of our people here, MW4 is the only MW they've ever played. References to critical spaces and hardpoints as separate entities is not hard to understand if one plays any other game in addition to MW4, since MW2 and MW3 at least just use the idea of unbiased critical spaces. But playing MW4 in isolation will invariably slow the uptake a bit.

The only thing that might help is to completely forget MW4 exists, look at the posts in the thread and try to understand them for what they are. Trying to view anything from the frame of MW4 will instantly cause the misconception that critical space must be slaved to hardpoints, because that's exactly what MW4 did.

Soviet Alex, on 19 April 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Hunchback-4SP (Record Sheets 3025 & 3026, FASA, 1996): 1xSRM-6 LT, 1xSRM-6 RT, 2xMed-Laser LA, 2xMed-Laser RA, 1xSml-Laser H, 2 tons SRM-ammo CT, 19 heat sinks. Nice & symmetrical for weapon convergence. I'd hope that this is the missile Swayback variant in the game, because it has a hardpoint coniguration unique amongst 3025-era Hunchbacks.

I admit defeat, the condition was met. =P

[Victor Morson]

The biggest reason for the confusion is the Blog specifically talked about taking out 1x Large Laser and replacing with 2x Medium Lasers. Now the Q&A says that you can't do that, which seems very contradictory in nature and to be honest even after reading the thread I'm not 100% clear on it.

The way I'm taking that it works from the Q&A and answers is that you can only swap 1 gun for 1 gun. While this sounds limiting (and is seriously limiting on some designs) it also sounds like it has the potential to be ludicrous - every single Machine Gun in the game is an AC/20 waiting to happen if I'm following this right; every small laser a PPC; every SRM-2 an LRM/20.

Anyway, the first Blog really sounded exactly like MW4 hardpoints, except the hardpoints occupy critical slots (rather than being separate) - a good way to handle it. This new way could be cool, too, though if what I just outlined is possible, could turn things even crazier very fast and skew the game way more towards "a few big weapons."

In otherwords I could take the LRMs off my Catapult, strip the arm armor down and then mount PPCs in every torso that has a medium laser provided I can jam them in the crits; or if the K is included, modify that model to carry PPCs and Gauss Rifles (in place of the machine guns). Honestly that's kind of a concerning factor for me as not allowing a tradeoff between "a lot of small guns versus a big one" seems like it's driving a "go big or go home" philosophy.

EDIT: I'm entirely not fixated on MW4's way of limiting weapons; I've played every MW game to date and am familiar with the Table Top build rules. My main confusion is the first blog sounded very MW4 in origin; like you'd basically have a Table Top build sheet, but on top of that say "the Right Torso can support up to 3 energy weapon slots." Not it sounds like "The right torso can support 2 energy weapons that you can install with any and all available crit space."

Edited by Victor Morson, 19 April 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[Soviet Alex]

I think that people would find it easier to understand what's going on with hardpoints if they could see a hardpoint map of a mech we all know, so that they could compare it to a Battletech record sheet, Heavy Metal Pro, Solaris Skunkworks, or whatever.

[Spooky]

Soviet Alex, on 20 April 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

I think that people would find it easier to understand what's going on with hardpoints if they could see a hardpoint map of a mech we all know, so that they could compare it to a Battletech record sheet, Heavy Metal Pro, Solaris Skunkworks, or whatever.

You'd need the hardpoints and the criticals to compare it.

Edited by Spooky, 20 April 2012 - 01:24 AM.

[Soviet Alex]

Spooky, on 20 April 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

You'd need the hardpoints and the criticals to compare it.

That's exactly what I'd like to see.

[SourGoat]

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