183 replies to this topic

[FiveDigits]

What irks me is that we have to discuss this at all. A DHS Jenner with a 250 rated engine and no external HSs works as it should be, dissipating heat at the rate of 20 SHS equivalents. It works like that now. Does this make heat a non-issue on said Jenner? Is this Jenner able to "core an Atlas in 3 seconds"?

No.

The whole preemptive 1.4HS nerf is a bad joke. Give us real DHSs and let's go from there. It's beta. Even if the claims were true that 2.0 heat dissipation DHSs makes heat management trivial (which we conjectured they won't) values could be adjusted after testing it in the field.

[MustrumRidcully]

Calmon, on 08 November 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

This needs to be go into hotfix today! DHS 1.4 means advatange for mechs which need additional DHS outside of engine: lights

If now 2.0 works in engine it means light mechs are incredible overpowered and just nobody see it because of the LRM which seems to go prod nearly untested as well.

How many Artemis LRMs can we put on a Light Mech?

[Apoc1138]

either this is has been poorly communicated, or PGI don't know how to assign global constants

the announcement said that ALL heatsinks were 1.4... so if they were testing thinking each time they were reducing ALL heatsinks the reason they had to go so far is because actually, say on a build with 5 outside sinks they were doing from 30 to 27 so the average overall was 1.8... I'd be quite happy with global heatsinks set to 1.8 instead of 2.0 engine and 1.4

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

If now 2.0 works in engine it means light mechs are incredible overpowered and just nobody see it because of the LRM which seems to go prod nearly untested as well.

Thing is we arent seeing "incredible overpowered" lights. During my tests heat was still and issue, just not as much as it was before. It didnt mean I could ignore it.

This goes against the feedback PGI gave us of lights coring atlas's in seconds. We have had 3 days and nobody has once complained about OP lights (or mediums for that matter, which also benefit massively).

The same thing would be said of the heavier mechs if the values of DHS were at 2.0 across the board. Yes they would be a bit better, but given they fire high heat weapons (ER Lasers, PPCs etc) Heat would still be a massive factor. Even laser boats wouldnt be the problem now that the laser heat issue has been fixed.

Lets just put the the DHS back in and test. If its too high lower it. It obviously isnt as bad as PGI claim it was.

[Kmieciu]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

How many Artemis LRMs can we put on a Light Mech?

Not too many I`m afraid :-)

The funny thing is, I was able to fire the LRM20 non-stop with only 13 SHS, and the heat gauge did not even rise...

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 November 2012 - 06:24 AM.

[John Norad]

FiveDigits, on 08 November 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

Especially if you consider my suggestion of keeping the 1 heat thresshold increase of SHSs on DHSs for balancing reasons.

Keeping the threshold is very important imho. DHS dissipate faster, but it doesn't make sense that they also give you more burst capacity.

[Squidhead Jax]

...I find myself wondering if this is all a ploy by PGi to eventually come out smelling like roses when they say "ok, you can have your doubles".

Either that or they have someone on staff who's religiously against proofreading.

Edited by Squidhead Jax, 08 November 2012 - 06:23 AM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

...I find myself wondering if this is all a ploy by PGi to eventually come out smelling like roses when they say "ok, you can have your doubles".

No chance, initially they were meant to be doubles. At least PGI thought so. We saw the bug reported and reported it.
PGI confirm and say it will be fixed, provided it doesnt break heat.
Then PGI claim that after testing it was OP. Jenners with DHS were far too good.
They then release 1.4 DHS

They turn out to be 2.0 DHS (In the engine) the jenner DHS myth is debunked. However this fix actually does make Lights OP due to the fact that Assaults are still reliant on 1.4 sinks.

In short, if its intentional, its a terrible fix, and actually make the problem worse. If its by mistake. Well actually I am speechless if thats the case.

[John Norad]

@OP
Forgot to add: Awesome find, awesome post.
2/2 Awesomes for you


-edit-
Damnit, mixed op the threads. Sry for doubleposting

Edited by John Norad, 08 November 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I can promise you that after today`s hotfix it`ll compare the contents of itemstats.xml and verify if David ninja`d a "fix" for internal HS.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kmieciu, on 08 November 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Not too many I`m afraid :-)

The funny thing is, I was able to fire the LRM20 non-stop with only 13 SHS, and the heat gauge did not even rise...

Quick, to the Break-Mobile! We can't have heat neutrla mechs, they are OP and broken!

[JediMastaDJ]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 November 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

Quick, to the Break-Mobile! We can't have heat neutrla mechs, they are OP and broken!

No. Don't even joke about it. Ermergerd. Srsly. They don't need those kind of suggestions.

Edited by JediMastaDJ, 08 November 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

I don't know why people are saying that true doubles in the engine are benefitting lights more. All three of my Atlas variants are running 350 engines with DHS. With Endo, weapons, ammo, etc...there is only room for 1-2 more DHS in the criticals. Running at a true DHS in the engine is working out great! Heat is still an issue on all three builds, but it is significantly better than it was.

Even so, a 4 ERPPC Atlas build can only fire once, the second shot will overheat you big time.

[Zerikin]

So they managed to screw it up yet again huh?

[Calmon]

Did someone test SHS in Engine. Are there working as 2.0 as well probably?

[FiveDigits]

Another reason why 2.0 DHSs are not "OP". You can't fit enough of the three crit slot monsters on a big mech with big guns to get even close to heat neutrality.

[Khobai]

Quote

Another reason why 2.0 DHSs are not "OP". You can't fit enough of the three crit slot monsters on a big mech with big guns to get even close to heat neutrality.

The issue with DHS isnt with big mechs its with light mechs. But the solution is simply to give light mechs less crit slots. A light mech should not have as many crit slots as an assault mech. FASA released rules in maxtech for rectifying that imbalance.

[Calmon]

FiveDigits, on 08 November 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Another reason why 2.0 DHSs are not "OP". You can't fit enough of the three crit slot monsters on a big mech with big guns to get even close to heat neutrality.

Ah well but LRMs are horrible broken. And I assume its a combination of was OP even before patch, the arc, far less heat problems because of this bug and potential bug with armor/internal structure. Not even sure what artemis bring to a LRM boat because everything else made LRMs OP.

[Calmon]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

How many Artemis LRMs can we put on a Light Mech?

Why? LRMs are broken now because of a combination of things coming together including this. Artemis? Its not even that good after all. The 2 major bugs around (dhs 2.0 + arc) + the fact that LRMs were OP before patch makes the whole thing a big mess.

Light mechs get most out of the DHS engine 2.0 bug. So please stop chaos, everything should be 1.4 for now. Nobody wants completly different stuff (1.4 outside, 2.0 inside) Than the 1.0 engine and 2.0 outside was a lot more appealing pre-patch!

[EnigmaNL]

Excuse me for asking, but which XML file is everybody talking about? I've searched for XML files in my MWO folder but only found ones pertaining to my profile. The less than stellar search engine on this forum won't let me find it!