183 replies to this topic

[Calmon]

Lol, this happens when using different methods/configs for the engine and the rest. It should be one value to change both.

I hope the Devs are not making the whole system a admin/maintenance-mess. When changing simple heatsink value bring us 2 times a bug related to the same thing I would say something going wrong at devs/QA side of PGI. I mean heat management is essential! Not a thing to just pass QA without good testing.

I'm a developer by myself and one focus is to keep the configuration part as close together as possible! Also don't add something to the config you already have -> heatsink in engine/outside = same thing with just different rules, no extra engine weight for one version.

Edited by Calmon, 08 November 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

Would be funny if David did it on purpose...

Its a possibility, All we were told initially was that 2.0 was being reduced down to 1.4. They never mentioned any more detail, despite my asking for it.

Either way a explanation as to whether this is intended, or a bug would be useful.

[Squid von Torgar]

Ok I just tested this using the Jenner D

SHS fire 4 ML time to cool down = 16.2 seconds
DHS (9 in engine, 1 outside) time to cool down = 8.6 seconds.

Seems pretty conclusive.

[Kmieciu]

Squid von Torgar, on 08 November 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Ok I just tested this using the Jenner D

SHS fire 4 ML time to cool down = 16.2 seconds
DHS (9 in engine, 1 outside) time to cool down = 8.6 seconds.

Seems pretty conclusive.

Now go and core that Atlas in 3 seconds!

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

Now go and core that Atlas in 3 seconds!

I think Garth must be either playing a different game altogether or he exaggerated quite a bit .

The thing is that DHS arent OP at all (Ones in the engine) yet larger builds like the 9M still dont really benefit (Equivilent of + 6 SHS if we use the new formula).

Still better than nothing I suppose. I really hope PGI explain what is going on. That is if they are aware themselves.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kmieciu, on 08 November 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

"PGI error in your favour. Collect your DHS today!"

So it seems PGI by error...did things right!

Double heatsinks outside the engine are indeed 1.4x ones:

<Module id="3000" name="[b]HeatSink_MkI[/b]" CType="CHeatSinkStats">
<ModuleStats slots="1" tons="1" health="10"/>
<Loc nameTag="@HeatSink_MkI" descTag="@HeatSink_MkI_desc" iconTag="3"/>
<HeatSinkStats [b]cooling="0.1"[/b] [b]heatbase="-1.0"[/b]/>
<EffectList>
<Effect name="SteamEffect" asset="mech_effects.heatsinks.steam_a"/>
</EffectList>
<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_Mech_HeatSink_Destroyed"/>
</Module>
<Module id="3001" name="[b]DoubleHeatSink_MkI"[/b] CType="CHeatSinkStats" DestroyedDialogue="BB_Mech_HeatSink_Destroyed">
<ModuleStats slots="3" tons="1" health="10"/>
<Loc nameTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI" descTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI_desc" iconTag="2"/>
<HeatSinkStats [b]cooling="0.14" heatbase="-1.4[/b]"/>

Interesting. So they should be able to actually have DHS also working as dissipationg 0.2 per sink and adding only +1 to the heat base. I was worried this wouldn't be easily possible. At least for external sinks it's possible, for internal sinks, it seems to be more complicated.

[Kmieciu]

mwhighlander, on 08 November 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Would be funny if David did it on purpose...

[Vermaxx]

Ok, because I'm dumb and hate spreadsheets let me ask for clarification:

It appears that all ORIGINAL SINKS in an engine are running as 2.0
It appears that all sinks outside engine are running as 1.4

Yes?

I edited it for correctness (original sinks)

Edited by Vermaxx, 08 November 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Squid von Torgar]

yes with the caveat that extra DHS that can be placed inside the engine in the larger engines also only work as 1.4s

[Vermaxx]

So the last engine 'worth buying' from a heatsink standpoint is the 250? After that the benefits of 'free' engine sink slots are outweighed by the negative that they're only 1.4, correct?

[Kmieciu]

I tend to archive the old itemstats.xml files, to here`s what we had before the 6/11/2012:

Internal HS:

    <UpgradeType id="3003" name="StandardHeatSinkType">
	  <Loc nameTag="@StandardHeatSinkType" descTag="@StandardHeatSinkType_desc" iconTag="20"/>
	  <UpgradeTypeStats type="2" slots="0" pointMultiplier="1.0" associatedItem="3000"/>
    </UpgradeType>
    <UpgradeType id="3002" name="DoubleHeatSinkType">
	  <Loc nameTag="@DoubleHeatSinkType" descTag="@DoubleHeatSinkType_desc" iconTag="19"/>
	  <UpgradeTypeStats type="2" slots="0" pointMultiplier="1.0" associatedItem="3001"/>
    </UpgradeType>
  </UpgradeTypeList>

External HS:

<Module id="3000" name="HeatSink_MkI" CType="CHeatSinkStats">
   <ModuleStats slots="1" tons="1" health="10"/>
   <Loc nameTag="@HeatSink_MkI" descTag="@HeatSink_MkI_desc" iconTag="3"/>
   <HeatSinkStats cooling="0.1" heatbase="-1.0"/>
   <EffectList>
    <Effect name="SteamEffect" asset="mech_effects.heatsinks.steam_a"/>
   </EffectList>
   <Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_Mech_HeatSink_Destroyed"/>
  </Module>
  <Module id="3001" name="DoubleHeatSink_MkI" CType="CHeatSinkStats" DestroyedDialogue="BB_Mech_HeatSink_Destroyed">
   <ModuleStats slots="3" tons="1" health="10"/>
   <Loc nameTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI" descTag="@DoubleHeatSink_MkI_desc" iconTag="2"/>
   <HeatSinkStats cooling="0.2" heatbase="-2.0"/>

[Squid von Torgar]

So we just have the same situation but in reverse.

Pre Patch

DHS that come with the engine = 1.0
DHS outside (or extras fitted in engine) 2.0

With latest patch

DHS that come with the engine = 2.0
DHS outside (or extras fitted in engine) =1.4

So yes if you just carry your DHS in the engine you get the full fat 2.0 boost. If you carry a load outside, you get only 1.4 (ontop of the 2.0s in the engine)

Its better than a flat 1.4 penalty but very much favours lighter builds that dont need more than 20 total cooling. Anything else is getting a lesser benefit.

Obviously this its totally different to how we were told they would work. It also makes a total mockery over the example of Jenners coring atlases. As it stands jenners are running around with full DHS provided they dont fit extras.

Edited by Squid von Torgar, 08 November 2012 - 05:49 AM.

[Vermaxx]

It's gotta be another programming error or bug, because this completely explains why light and medium mechs are getting such a huge boost over assaults.

It isn't because 1.4 is simply better than standards, it is because light/medium mechs generally run a comparitively large engine and therefore get a lot of 2.0 heatsinks.

Dammit, I wasn't going to buy 'broken' sinks! I skipped them in the first release, and now I've gotten use to them and they're probably going to get redacted AGAIN!

Edited by Vermaxx, 08 November 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

Dammit, I wasn't going to buy 'broken' sinks! I skipped them in the first release, and now I've gotten use to them and they're probably going to get redacted AGAIN!

Thing is we really dont know if this is a bug or intentional. There were a lot of things not mentioned in the patch notes. So perhaps this is by design.

If it is, its a poor fix, because as you rightly say Assaults suffer exponentially compared to lights/mediums. Heavies do ok too.

Perhaps it would just be eaiser (and fairer) if they just put them back up to 2.0 across the board, and nerf from there. Once again it seems that either internal testing failed or its intentional.

Edited by Squid von Torgar, 08 November 2012 - 05:55 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I guess sooner or later the devs are going to fix this... maybe even in the hotfix today. ..
But I would really like to have a weeks time to test some builds with true DHS in the engine ... especially a Dragon with 2.0 heat dissipation per second with no external heat sinks!
Gauss in one arm, PPC in the other, and two streaks in between! Oh... a man can dream...

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 November 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

November 8th at 10AM PDT, we're releasing a hotfix that will do the following:

• Reduce LRM damage
  
• Fix LRM 'arc'
  
• Increase Artemis missile spread
  
• Fix 3rd person cockpits showing incorrect

Cheers,

The MechWarrior Online Team

Seems that either they dont know about this or its intentional. Either way nothing mentioned in the
hotfix.

[deputydog]

even with dhs mechs should still run a little hot because of the faster then normal recycle times. They could leave it at 1.4 and reduce recycles and you would no heat probs at all.. Its good as it is. Just control your firing if you run hot. Maybe they need to add an option that you can set your own recycle rate for your weapons because you cant contrl yourself...

[Kmieciu]

There are more undocumented changes than things mentioned in the patch notes :-)
http://mwomercs.com/...012/page__st__0

[Vermaxx]

I'm getting tired of losing my mind with every patch, then calming down a few days later when they compile all the problems and address them.


And losing my mind again when the fixes create even more problems. I was totally onboard with 1.4 sinks from math and in game use. Except the in game use was artificially modified by the fact that 8 of my mechs 18 sinks are doubles.

So, whereas I thought I was running 25.2 + 15%, I was really running 30 + 15%. Yeah, no wonder why I got on the "new" DHS bandwagon.

[Calmon]

This needs to be go into hotfix today! DHS 1.4 means advatange for mechs which need additional DHS outside of engine: lights

If now 2.0 works in engine it means light mechs are incredible overpowered and just nobody see it because of the LRM which seems to go prod nearly untested as well.