63 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Sir Prometheus, on 09 November 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

So while those are interesting numbers, I'm having trouble interpreting what they mean in practical terms. Atremis SRMS have slightly less splash dmg than regular SRMs?

Joke post.
Firing at closer than 100m very little differnce. Firing at greater than 100m much tighter grouping with artemis (more of your missile will hit the target than the landscape behind them).

vs. smaller mechs you will always miss more, because they are a smaller target (if the target is half size it is the same as doubling the range), and your damage will be spread over more of their mech for the same reason.

Splash damage. while I don't have any real numbers, SRMs splash (the AoE effect on each missile) seems less. In the past I could shoot SRMs at the feet of an enemy mech, and they would take significant leg damage, I have not seen this phenomon lately.

In closing, it really depends on how close you get to the enemy mech. remember that artemis requires 1 more ton and 1 more crit slot, so even on an SRM6 you are paying a 33% weight penalty for a slight tighter grouping that really only helps you agaisnt medium, heavy, and assult mechs between 100-270m.

And lets not forget the ammunition costs, it is double a standard SRM laodout.

I am considering removing Artemis from my faster mechs, which generally fire at point blank range.

[Mr 144]

Stormur Herra, on 09 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

I could almost swear that the SRMs sometimes curve slightly towards the target, though i think that's a trick of the angle at which my arm is firing them. (Also, only noticeable at 100+m)

Myself, and several others have noticed this as well. If you have a target 'R' locked, they do at times seem to 'curve' into them if they're moving. No where near enough to be called tracking or anything, but it does seem to add 'something' to the flight path. Like you, I'm a bit reserved in claiming it though, as it could easily be netcode, graphical, or wishful thinking. But you're not crazy..I've seen it too.

Mr 144

[multiplesanta34]

Quote

I always run TAG on my HBK, so it's hard for me to say, as I TAG everything out of force of habit. I can tell you, with TAG+Artemis, a single SRM6 will have almost ballistic trajectory and is useable for the first time at longer ranges. I personally think it's worth it, but like I said, I run TAG always anyhow.

I'm not suggesting SRMs are accurate or anything at range, but given a free pot-shot at a powered down mech at 180m, I can confidently land all 6 missles on target with a high chance of multiple single section hits. This was all but impossible pre-artemis.

Same here, the Hunchback i'm running also always has a TAG as I switch between SSRMs, LRMs, and SRMs depending on mood. Now I know that with LRMs and SSRMs I get a quicker lock in addition to whatever spread benefits occur, but it's a bit harder to tell if it effects SRMs. I tend to agree with you that the trajectory seems better but i'm not completely sure. It also begs the question as to whether or not there is an additive effect if you have both TAG and Artemis, or if you only need one or the other.

[Mr 144]

multiplesanta34, on 09 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Same here, the Hunchback i'm running also always has a TAG as I switch between SSRMs, LRMs, and SRMs depending on mood. Now I know that with LRMs and SSRMs I get a quicker lock in addition to whatever spread benefits occur, but it's a bit harder to tell if it effects SRMs. I tend to agree with you that the trajectory seems better but i'm not completely sure. It also begs the question as to whether or not there is an additive effect if you have both TAG and Artemis, or if you only need one or the other.

I know absolutely there is an additive component with LRMs at least. I can visualy see the difference when I TAG with artemis missle incoming on target. Sometimes I don't TAG until missiles are in flight, and the visual grouping changes noticebaly. LRMing at 400 meters gives you a very nice perspective on what does what, as you typically get to watch the whole flight path and know precisely when the target is TAGed.

SRMs are way to hard to test as the flight times are so short, and are rarely used at range.

Mr 144

[MongerMan]

Mr 144, on 09 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Myself, and several others have noticed this as well. If you have a target 'R' locked, they do at times seem to 'curve' into them if they're moving. No where near enough to be called tracking or anything, but it does seem to add 'something' to the flight path. Like you, I'm a bit reserved in claiming it though, as it could easily be netcode, graphical, or wishful thinking. But you're not crazy..I've seen it too.

Mr 144

I've been trying SRM4's with Artemis on my Commando. And I have also seen this. Again nothing like streaks or lrm's
and as has been said it could be wishfull thinking, graphics, netcode. But I get the feeling it may add very slight tracking
to the srm's. We all need to experiment with that more I think.

[stjobe]

Mr 144, on 09 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Myself, and several others have noticed this as well. If you have a target 'R' locked, they do at times seem to 'curve' into them if they're moving. No where near enough to be called tracking or anything, but it does seem to add 'something' to the flight path. Like you, I'm a bit reserved in claiming it though, as it could easily be netcode, graphical, or wishful thinking. But you're not crazy..I've seen it too.

Mr 144

If you're moving, that's just an optical illusion. If you're stationary, then there might be an issue.

[Spinning Burr]

What EXACTLY does Artemis do for SRM's? Is it worthwhile tech for SRM mech? Or only really makes sense for LRM's?

[Commander Gravey]

Spinning Burr, on 09 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

What EXACTLY does Artemis do for SRM's? Is it worthwhile tech for SRM mech? Or only really makes sense for LRM's?

It makes your SRM's (not Streak SRM's) spread less.

[Lyoto Machida]

Was wondering about this also...though I read they loosened the spread again a bit after that hotfix yesterday. Is it really worth it to spend the money for Artemis on it? I usually run 2 (or 3) SRM-6s in my Atlas.

[DraigUK]

Currently Artimis is a waste of CBills. Only reason I still have it on 3 mechs is because I'm not paying again to have it removed.

[Odins Fist]

Commander Gravey, on 09 November 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

It makes your SRM's (not Streak SRM's) spread less.

.
Yeah it cuts down the spread a little... I just wish the LBX-10-AC was a little more beefy, and concentrate better, but that is another subject all together.
I see the Artemis to be a fairly decent upgrade for Missiles... It seems to help with LRMs just fine.

[CodeNameValtus]

I am running an Atlas D-DC, with 3x SRM-6's equipped with Artemis FCS firing from my torso. I have TAG equipped to my CT in addition to a Medium Laser.

I have noticed the difference between:

A) 3x SRM-6's - stand alone that I used to run, before Artemis and TAG were added. I could land usually land 50-75% of the rockets to a single location from 50-100m. (Anything under 50m should be 100% missiles to a single location, as they don't really scatter much before then, not to mention if you are 0-10m away, it's basically the equivalent of sticking a shotgun to their chest and pulling the trigger)

3x SRM-6's with Artemis. Fires a tighter cluster of rockets. Less 'death flower' as I call it. Rockets stay more accurate, and therefore less damage spread. I can usually land 70-90% of the rockets to a single location out to about 120-150m

C) 3x SRM-6's with Artemis & TAG - Fire an even tighter cluster of rockets. I can typically land a solid 90-100% SRM barrage to a single location out to about 175-200m.

(Again, my numbers are rough approximations, as the action happens too fast for me to really tell. Now if we can get someone in game to take screen shots of the FRAPs of them firing rockets with all scenarios, and overlaying them to show the tighter cluster on the 'death flower', that'd probably be more helpful).

You can probably see, if you do the math, based on my 'loose' calculations of how many rockets are hitting locations, that the single target location damage on the SRM volley is vastly improved with each scenario. However, these are very 'rough' numbers, as we don't have a combat log to verify. But I can definitely notice that I'm accurate further out with SRMs clustering with both Artemis and TAG.

[TheUnderking]

This is second hand, but I often roll with an Atlas player, and since the new patch, his damage output per game has gone from ~200 to ~650. He says the 3artemisSRM6s are a ton of that damage.

I am making a hunch 4sp as soon as i get the cash though

[3rdworld]

TheUnderking, on 09 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

This is second hand, but I often roll with an Atlas player, and since the new patch, his damage output per game has gone from ~200 to ~650. He says the 3artemisSRM6s are a ton of that damage.

I am making a hunch 4sp as soon as i get the cash though

Use a CN9-A, only medium with more than 2 missile slots. I have 1 that I use 3SRM-6 & Art and it runs ~90kph.

[CarnifexMaximus]

I need to check Artemis out. I forced myself to take a break from MWO a few weeks ago... I needed a break from all the drama about DHS, bugs etc... What seems now to be ages ago I ran a DC atlas in closed beta... This was even before founders mechs were added. I had 3x srm 6s, gauss rifle and 2x medium lasers. The spread on srm volleys was more or less non existent. The real star of my atlas build was not the gauss rifle and certainly not the medium lasers, it was the srms... When the spread increased I use srm 4s exclusively. I was wondering if the old super tight spread values were what one should expect with artmis added in. I think I will still keep my 4s though. The spread is a good balance between precision and "shotgun" effect and the ammo conservation and heat of the 4s makes me a true believer at the end of the day.

Can anyone report how srm4s improve with artmis? I might be down to try that out.

[Mr 144]

stjobe, on 09 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

If you're moving, that's just an optical illusion. If you're stationary, then there might be an issue.

Yeah, could be. I seem to notice it most though when I'm practically stationary or moving very slowly. I'm aware of the optical illusion created by 45 degree angle turning speed shots, and this ain't it. Ususaly, I'm tucked next to a building TAGing a target for a boat...wait for them to get into my optimal range of 180-270m, creep out, line up my 'ambush shot', and let loose with an LRM15, SRM6, and 4xML. They'll be moving, but I'm really not, as I wait to cover until missle impact to maintain TAG. I don't count on the SRM to hit at that distance, but I have the ammo, so why not.

In this scenario, the SRM seems to have a very limited tracking function. The best I can describe it, is if you were on-target when fired, then it will try to curve into the moving target. I notice this because I rarely lead my target in this scenario, as the 4xML s more important to land...yet the missles find the mark relatively well. By no means does this oddity garuntee any sort of hit mind you...it just seems to 'help' small target deviations. This is reproducable under these conditions.

As I run a strange build with both LRM and SRM, it could be a bug with Artemis, as I do have a 'true' missle lock on target unlike SRM only builds. TAG also throws a monkey wrench into the phenomenon and makes tracing it's source very difficult. I would say it occurs around 180-220m as I pay close attention to range for my ambush alpha.

I don't think that even if proven true it should be a factor in build consideration. I consider it more of a cool novelty when/if it happens...nothing reliable enough to plan around.

Or...I could be nuts

Mr 144

[Jabakahn]

Got this upgrade on my Atlas when it was released and it seemed to make big difference in damage, but now LRMs hardly seem to be worth using, I think they pulled back to far.

[Karl Marlow]

Spinning Burr, on 09 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

What EXACTLY does Artemis do for SRM's? Is it worthwhile tech for SRM mech? Or only really makes sense for LRM's?

To heck wiht SRM's I want to know what it does for NARC missiles.

I found it rather irritating that it was trying to allocate a ton for an artimis system on the NARC in my Raven.

[IceSerpent]

ThomasMarik, on 10 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

To heck wiht SRM's I want to know what it does for NARC missiles.

I found it rather irritating that it was trying to allocate a ton for an artimis system on the NARC in my Raven.

It's not supposed to affect NARC in any way - may I suggest submitting a bug report?

[Gristle]

Was running Artemis on my HBK-4SP w/ 2xSRM6 for a while and removed it. My perception is that Artemis was only slightly helping missile shots at range because of a slightly reduced spread. Point blank shots don't seem to benefit at all.