101 replies to this topic

[Kaelus]

verybad, on 08 November 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

They were already OP BEFORE the patch, so the description in the Hofix doesn't sound bad at all.

Yes to a bad team, I agree, but so was an organized brawling lance, nothing has changed, LRMS just let you put pressure on the subject. If they get nerfed back to where they were, they have no purpose and are not feared. Idiots running out into the open SHOULD be punished. People play too suicidal.

[maxmarechal]

i agree with the general idea that cover should be more efficient protecting a mech from LRMs
i play awesome with triple LRM10 and it's not fun anymore
just before patch you would really need a good spotter and teamwork to rain death on a mech
now it looks like an ultramarine cruiser sending an orbital strike...for LRM boats to be fun to play it must be difficult to keep the lock and easy for a good brawler to escape if he makes proper evasive action,not nerf missile damage!!!!
great fun is when you realise some guy crawled behind your back and is shredding your armor while you try to keep a lock on your target!!!!

[Spencley]

Ultrabeast, on 07 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

They can over nerf them or under nerf them or tie me up and have 8 puggsters fire LRM's at me all day. I just want my 8 man teams back.

On topic: LRM's were nerfed pretty bad in closed beta for a long time and I was happy they were buffed, but I think it was a bit too much.

Streak cats are still far too strong despite the supposed "streak nerfs" they still do the same amount of insane damage with basically no heat or aiming required.

This is because they didnt change the missile damage they do at all. They stopped the missiles always aiming for the centet torso. Now your streaks will target a random part of the mech each time they are fired. Not sure if this means if you fire 2 x 2 streak launchers all 4 missiles will target the same thing that time and then the next time all 4 target another single point or if it means every launcher targets its own random part each time. If it is the first then thats why the streak cats are still good. if its the second then the streak cats whilst still really hurting the light mechs have had the effectiveness reduced on bigger mechs. (which is good no mech should be able to do everything.

The damage on LRM's in closed beta was 1 per missile... They upped it to 2 damage per missile due to the innaccuracy and randomness of impact on mechs. Now the randomness is gone and they are almost pinpoint accurate bringing them back down to 1 damage per missile is good. This still makes them an effective killing tool to help your team with when using artemis and if your not using that then they make a great artillery peice to soften them up before engaging.

Edited by Spencley, 08 November 2012 - 12:37 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Pre-artemis LRMs were op? That's hilarious, considering every jenner pilot at 140 kph was immune to LRMs.

[slackermagee]

Only fix will be to adjust the downward angle. It shouldn't be any better or worse than the non-art system.

The 90 degree falling angle is what's ruining everything. Jesus Christ, I cannot wait for the hot patch, the ******* boaters are going to make so much beautiful wailing.

[Jun Watarase]

slackermagee, on 08 November 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

Only fix will be to adjust the downward angle. It shouldn't be any better or worse than the non-art system.

The 90 degree falling angle is what's ruining everything. Jesus Christ, I cannot wait for the hot patch, the ******* boaters are going to make so much beautiful wailing.

Uh, damage is getting nerfed, and so is artemis.

[Wispsy]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Pre-artemis LRMs were op? That's hilarious, considering every jenner pilot at 140 kph was immune to LRMs.

They still are..... More so infact, double tapping r does not have nearly the same effect and multiple people firing on you does not make you more likely to die like it did before...

[DrAwkward]

Gristle, on 07 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

This is equivalent to 3,672 damage @ 1.7 per missile, if all missiles hit, delivered in 306 seconds. 4xML will only deliver 408 damage in the same time.

Unless I'm mistaken, 1 ton of LRM ammo is still only 180 missiles. So, at Jun's cited 4 tons of ammo, this amounts to 720 missiles. That comes to only 1224 total potential damage if LRMs are set to 1.7 damage per missile. That's a pretty hefty load, to be sure. However, this represents an investment of 18 tons and your damage output can plummet fairly quickly if the enemy takes some basic precautions.

Let's assume that since Jun is using 2xLRM15 and 4xMLs that he is using the Trial Catapult C1. If he decides to stagger his fire, so that he could use those MLs against any light or medium 'mechs that decide to come his way, then he is very susceptible to AMS. Unless it changed since mid-October, one AMS roughly kills 5 Missiles per LRM15 volley. This means that even a single AMS could reduce his total damage output to only 816. If target/spotter movement and terrain cause half of his remaining missiles to miss, then he might only be doing 408 damage on the same 18 ton investment. This would be insufficient to kill an assault 'mech, and anything Dragon-speed or faster might decide to come brawl with him where he is weak. His stock heat sinks would only let him discourage rushers, not actually kill them unless a significant portion of his missiles had already struck them. He could die without helping his team, based solely on what his opponents do. I believe Jun's concern comes from the notion that you can invest a huge amount of tonnage into weapons that might not do anything.

[nyknyk]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

..the jenner starts bragging in chat about how "elite" he is.

That was me!

But seriously, I always took it that the speed of the jenner helped you jink missiles if you were smart enough to sprint at 90 degree's, kinda like a fighter jet and sidewinders.

It was a hell of shock when I started getting taken out by missileboats all sudden like, even hiding behind buildings.

I think the damage model is fine, but the large missile turn circle needs a wider arc. Bring back the dodge!

Edited by nyknyk, 08 November 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[Draco Argentum]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Pre-artemis LRMs were op? That's hilarious, considering every jenner pilot at 140 kph was immune to LRMs.

I don't think you can base balance decisions on a lag shielded Jenner with a straight face. PGI needs to fix that tripe before I start caring about how much damage something can do to light mechs.

[Tigerhawk71]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Pre-artemis LRMs were op? That's hilarious, considering every jenner pilot at 140 kph was immune to LRMs.

Ah... You're one of those clever clogs that think LRMs are supposed to be used on light mechs.

[Daimonos]

The correct damage value for LRMs is 1.0. 1.7 is still a significant buff.

[Tyronica]

with the new target system even afther the nerf with this target systems its a total joke, you either pick a trail mech with them or make your own lrm gun boat with target system and let it rip i just 2 shot a light mech with 2 vollies of lrm 15 the day of the light scout are over untill they add ECM.

TBH they should have put in ECM and target system at the same time

[Eshek]

LRMs were already overpowered before Artemis. With the new arc and the tighter grouping from Artemis, they're disgusting.

Personally I would be fine with the damage nerf (2.0 -> 1.7) and going back to the old flight path. Nerfing Artemis is unnecessary...although I would also like Artemis to be dependent on line-of-sight, like it's supposed to.

[Adrienne Vorton]

LRM´s have been too weak for a while, but very annoying cause they always hitted ( see the current re-activation of the "high-arch") ...until yesterday they were in a good balance regarding the fireing-arch, but a little too powerful due to 2dmg/ missle...

if they fix the arch, and take them to 1.5 - 1.7 dmg/ missle, i guess we finally get them close to be satisfying... i don´t think they will be over-nerfed...not on the long run anyway^^

[Jun Watarase]

daimonos, on 08 November 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

The correct damage value for LRMs is 1.0. 1.7 is still a significant buff.

Unless you work for PGI, you don't get to determine what is "correct".

[Joseph Mallan]

Over nerf to counter over buff!

[Draco Argentum]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Unless you work for PGI, you don't get to determine what is "correct".

PGI appears to be having trouble with it too.

[Krivvan]

Jun Watarase, on 08 November 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Pre-artemis LRMs were op? That's hilarious, considering every jenner pilot at 140 kph was immune to LRMs.

Actually, it's now easier for a light mech to dodge Artemis than regular missiles. Artemis coming from straight above (I know they're fixing this) can just be outrun. Regular missiles that come from the sides at least require you to run in a certain direction to avoid them.

[VXJaeger]

Nerfing LRMs....well probably a good thing but wouldn't have bothered me if you left damage as it was, and fix them coming through stones, walls etc. instead. ARC fix is OK.