101 replies to this topic

[Alex Wolfe]

They don't need aiming.

They deal a lot of damage and are extremely discouraging for the target.

They serve their purpose without being absolutely overpowering like pre-hotfix. Lighter mechs hit by them become nigh-nonfunctional, dropping armor plates all over the place.

I'd need some more matches to be certain, but they seem fine as they are. Non-aiming weapons shouldn't be as or more powerful than aimed ones, or the question appears why use skill-based weapons in the first place if you can just point and click your way to 3+ kills per match.

People were just used to staying in the base and raining death on radar pings all match long being a viable tactics, they need to adapt a bit, move up with their team... then ask the question again, once the initial shock of win button being taken away passes.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 08 November 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[FunkyFritter]

I like them as they are now, more of a support weapon than a primary means of dealing damage.

[Khobai]

Quote

Sound about right. Most people were saying anything over 1.6 will still be competitive, and 1.8 will still be quite strong, so 1.7 is about par.

Yes but that was back when LRM15s and LRM20s had a 3.25 cooldown. LRM15s have a 4.25 cooldown now and LRM20s have a 4.75 cooldown. So 1.6 is no longer adequate due to the longer cooldowns. 1.8 isnt even adequate.

[Alex Wolfe]

Khobai, on 08 November 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yes but that was back when LRM15s and LRM20s had a 3.25 cooldown. LRM15s have a 4.25 cooldown now and LRM20s have a 4.75 cooldown. So 1.6 is no longer adequate due to the longer cooldowns. 1.8 isnt even adequate.

That was also back before we had Artemis, which further increases LRM effectiveness while dropping the already low skill floor ten levels into the basement.

Judging things in a vacuum will only lead to false conclusions.

[SteelPaladin]

Alex Wolfe, on 08 November 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

That was also back before we had Artemis, which further increases LRM effectiveness while dropping the already low skill floor ten levels into the basement.

Judging things in a vacuum will only lead to false conclusions.

Requiring one piece of gear to make another piece effective is bad design. Non-Artemis LRMs need to be effective too, or they need to take out the option to take LRMs w/o Artemis.

[Herbert Daring Dashwood]

Just going to throw in my two cents. I play either Jenner, Hunchie, Cicada or Atlas (my gausscat phase was overcheesed).

I don't think LRM's should be any good against light mechs, at least light mechs that move fast, use cover and power down at opportune moments, it removes their speed advantage, especially against organised teams, a good Light pilot with AMS should be immune to all but the most concentrated LRM's fire, pulse lasers and SRM's are for blasting lights.

LRM's are for blasting other supports, slow mediums and assaults, an assault in the open should take horrendous damage from LRM's, as should a slower medium and heavies, anything below 100 odd kms IMO.

just me honest opinion.

[Vyviel]

SteelPaladin, on 08 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Requiring one piece of gear to make another piece effective is bad design. Non-Artemis LRMs need to be effective too, or they need to take out the option to take LRMs w/o Artemis.

Now there is no difference between non artemis and artemis LRMS. So save your money and dont get it. Use the extra tons and slots for more LRM ammo or heatsinks =P

[Kaijin]

If I'm carrying around 18 tons of Artemis launchers and 6 tons of ammunition, it better be worth it. Right now, the only Catapult build that makes any sense is a C1 Energy Cat or a K2 Gauss Cat.

[Beo Vulf]

Jun Watarase, on 07 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Considering that LRMs were made broken by artemis, and they are not just nerfing artemis....i think there's a very high chance we are going to go back to the old days of "mech stands in the open, takes 2 tons of LRM ammo to kill him" and everyone using fast mechs with med/small lasers.

For reference, 2 LRM-15s weigh 14 tons and 4 tons of ammo (the bare minimum needed to sustain it for a match) weigh 4 tons. 1 med laser weighs 1 ton.

It takes a couple of more shots to kill an Atlas That's a good thing no more 2 shooting them as it was before the fix.

[Yankee77]

I'm going to say they were nerfed too much. They are now noticeably worse than last week WITH ARTEMIS. That's a clear instance of over-nerfing, ESPECIALLY since the ammo costs were not affected.

So now I pay much more for my reloads and repairs than last week, for a net performance loss compared to last week.

LRMs needed fixing after yesterday's patch, but this was excessive. Now LRMs NEED Artemis, maybe even Tag, to be even moderately useful.

Thank you.

[Araxes]

Itkovian, on 08 November 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I'm going to say they were nerfed too much. They are now noticeably worse than last week WITH ARTEMIS. That's a clear instance of over-nerfing, ESPECIALLY since the ammo costs were not affected.

So now I pay much more for my reloads and repairs than last week, for a net performance loss compared to last week.

LRMs needed fixing after yesterday's patch, but this was excessive. Now LRMs NEED Artemis, maybe even Tag, to be even moderately useful.

Thank you.

They really were overnerfed. LRMs are completely ineffective now, even with Artemis. Mechs just ignore the shots completely. Really hope they fix this

Edited by Araxes, 08 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[Alex Wolfe]

SteelPaladin, on 08 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Requiring one piece of gear to make another piece effective is bad design. Non-Artemis LRMs need to be effective too, or they need to take out the option to take LRMs w/o Artemis.

While I agree with your first sentence, I never said the gear is a requirement for them to be good. Non-Artemis LRMs are still very effective. What I meant is that with Artemis around the corner, PGI should tread lightly regarding its balance. It's the single weapon that can suck the whole fun out of the game, and make it feel like Worms on airstrike-only setting rather than Mechwarrior (which is precisely what happened before the hotfix).

2 point LRMs were overused and complained about before Artemis. Artemis only pushed them over the edge of ridiculousness. When the upgrade is properly rebalanced, it should still be an upgrade, but not give you godlike power just for ~1 mil C-bills and 1t1crit per launcher, either.

In short - LRMs feel better balanced than ever - punishing staying in the open, but no longer a death sentence just because someone put a circle over a square then held M1 for a few seconds from 900m away. They shouldn't be the main weapon of the battlefield, since they're completely non-skill indexed. Aimed weapon should outperform dumb weapons with skill added (since otherwise there's no incentive to ever get good in the game), and that wasn't the case with overpowered LRMs. As a support weapon, they're still excellent.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 08 November 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Leetskeet]

Araxes, on 08 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

They really were overnerfed. LRMs are completely ineffective now, even with Artemis. Mechs just ignore the shots completely. Really hope they fix this

They sure still hurt me....

[Sean von Steinike]

Araxes, on 08 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

They really were overnerfed. LRMs are completely ineffective now, even with Artemis. Mechs just ignore the shots completely. Really hope they fix this

They ignore them because the cockpit shake is almost gone.

[deputydog]

Can we at least get the reload costs for artemis reduced? Takes 110-150k to reload my atlas. Add in repairs and I only break even on a win..

The way to fix it is put the damage up a little and make it so lrms dont hit fast movers easily. Makes scouts survivable and big stuff have to use cover..

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Gristle, on 08 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

This is true, but even if 1/2 the missiles miss that's still 1,836 612 damage, more than enough to destroy any mech.

yeee u can destroy one mech when u fire up all your ammo...how great.With dual GR K2 u can kill mech in 4 sec for 2 ammo at almost 2k range...need smthing more to say?

[Crazycajun]

Alex Wolfe, on 08 November 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

While I agree with your first sentence, I never said the gear is a requirement for them to be good. Non-Artemis LRMs are still very effective. What I meant is that with Artemis around the corner, PGI should tread lightly regarding its balance. It's the single weapon that can suck the whole fun out of the game, and make it feel like Worms on airstrike-only setting rather than Mechwarrior (which is precisely what happened before the hotfix).

2 point LRMs were overused and complained about before Artemis. Artemis only pushed them over the edge of ridiculousness. When the upgrade is properly rebalanced, it should still be an upgrade, but not give you godlike power just for ~1 mil C-bills and 1t1crit per launcher, either.

In short - LRMs feel better balanced than ever - punishing staying in the open, but no longer a death sentence just because someone put a circle over a square then held M1 for a few seconds from 900m away. They shouldn't be the main weapon of the battlefield, since they're completely non-skill indexed. Aimed weapon should outperform dumb weapons with skill added (since otherwise there's no incentive to ever get good in the game), and that wasn't the case with overpowered LRMs. As a support weapon, they're still excellent.

they feel balanced because u whined and got another crutch handed to you....so ur not dieing to them anymore...
all of you bitched bout a non existent problem when there are more glaring problems that need be fixed...

it don't matter anymore anyways because pgi has taking that one fatal step into the wrong direction of given in to all the puggers/whiners and folks that rather whine and be handed handicaps rather then learn to play and adapt and over come.. and now the game < to go along with the trend anyways that some like to do >
might well be called Handicap Warrior Online.. cause it seems the only things that get fixed round here lately are tears and knee jerks..stead of actual bugs and what not

oh well...guess i see ya in a few weeks or on down the road somewhere..

Edited by Crazycajun, 08 November 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Sarevos]

Crazycajun, on 08 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

they feel balanced because u whined and got another crutch handed to you....so ur not dieing to them anymore...
all of you bitched bout a non existent problem when there are more glaring problems that need be fixed...

it don't matter anymore anyways because pgi has taking that one fatal step into the wrong direction of given in to all the puggers/whiners and folks that rather whine and be handed handicaps rather then learn to play and adapt and over come.. and now the game < to go along with the trend anyways that some like to do >
might well be called Handicap Warrior Online.. cause it seems the only things that get fixed round here lately are tears and knee jerks..stead of actual bugs and what not

oh well...guess i see ya in a few weeks or on down the road somewhere..

Really? honestly? with a name like crazycajun i guess i shouldnt expect you to have a sensible opinion huh?

No one wanted this game to devolve into a 15 minute long cuban missile crisis which almost always ended in a tie... If you played against another 8man team it usually was just your scouts shooting at the other scouts while your brawlers waited patiently to avoid lrm fire and your support and snipers stood at the ready until in the last 5 mins both teams charged into the cave and a huge grinder ensued that ends in time running out before the last man can fall on either team. Overused lrms + fairly open maps made the game really stale really fast they needed to be balanced better. Vs pugs its just a skee't shoot that got old back in CB so we didnt even bother to continue it. if lrms suffered a penalty to indirect fire before hand and a bonus to los fire it wouldnt have even mattered as concentrated lrm strikes would put the boat at risk and therefore could be countered with coordinated fire rather than charging through metal rain to get picked apart by the other sides CQC units. I blame most of it on level design and player abuse (the latter being the main reason knockdowns got removed) the fact that you dont understand the problems overuse of lrms caused to overall gameplay shows that you havent played a competent 8 man team as both sides rarely win and matches always fall down to the time limit

by the way its DYING

Edited by Sarevos, 08 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Beo Vulf, on 08 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

It takes a couple of more shots to kill an Atlas That's a good thing no more 2 shooting them as it was before the fix.

Show me some proof that you could two shot an atlas prior to the hotfix.

You won't, because it is impossible.

[Talos Valcoran]

two-shot an Atlas? ...two salvos of 2LRM15s / LoS and a little luck did the job... done it myself too. but who am I to tell the allknowing Jun [REDACTED] what can and what can not be... silly me.

Edited by RAM, 09 November 2012 - 09:39 AM.
Insulting