791 replies to this topic

[Dorque]

Shaddock, on 11 November 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

I like how you are incapable of dealing with my arguments, so you change my argument, then argue with the changed one...

Hey, I'm only giving back exactly what you keep doing to me and everyone else who disagrees with you in this thread. Sorry if you're not even worth having a rational debate with at this point.

Quote

And the fact that EVERYONE is realizing they can take it off and just run under LRMs in the open to just pop that LRM mech doesn't scream at you "underpowered"?

Point me to where everyone is removing their AMS. Wait, you can't because not everyone is. I still have it on all my brawlers because even with it I take a lot of damage from LRMs if I have to move through them.

[hanitora]

LRMs aren't worthless... they just aren't very good.

[Dren Nas]

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Hey, I'm only giving back exactly what you keep doing to me and everyone else who disagrees with you in this thread. Sorry if you're not even worth having a rational debate with at this point.

Shaddock hasn't twisted your words, yet you're "giving back" to him? I'm confused.

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Point me to where everyone is removing their AMS. Wait, you can't because not everyone is. I still have it on all my brawlers because even with it I take a lot of damage from LRMs if I have to move through them.

Point to one person in this thread that has said "i'm definitely leaving my AMS on" before you, and you have a leg to stand on.

Edited by Dren Nas, 11 November 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Dorque]

Dren Nas, on 11 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Point to one person in this thread that say as said "i'm definitely leaving my AMS on", and you have a leg to stand on.

Me.

But I'll throw that out to everyone else instead of wading back through 400+ posts. Folks who are still following this, how many of you are still using AMS?

[Shaddock]

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Me.

But I'll throw that out to everyone else instead of wading back through 400+ posts. Folks who are still following this, how many of you are still using AMS?

I have taken it off or lowered ammo on most of my mechs

[Dren Nas]

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Me.

But I'll throw that out to everyone else instead of wading back through 400+ posts. Folks who are still following this, how many of you are still using AMS?

I have taken it off most if not all the mechs I play.

[hanitora]

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Me.

But I'll throw that out to everyone else instead of wading back through 400+ posts. Folks who are still following this, how many of you are still using AMS?

I'm not. Used the freed tonnage for heavier armour and a bigger engine.

[Blaank]

I don't use AMS as I am running a jenner and can avoid 90% of shots fired at me while I'm in the open and I take cover and evasive action whenever I can. If I am locked I will also run past friendly mechs with AMS (mostly trial atlases at the moment) or run behind enemy mechs. Currently I fear a jenner with SSRMs more than a catapult with 4 LRM 20s and me in an open field.

[Valdez Raptor]

I for one have taken off my AMS and the ammo, that extra weight is so much nicer with a faster engine to run out into the open with.

[Kaijin]

Shaddock, on 11 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I have taken it off or lowered ammo on most of my mechs

Likewise. I still run with plenty on my Commando to help me against streaks, but I fear no LRMs.

Edited by Kaijin, 11 November 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Dren Nas]

just watched a medium take 3% damage from 3 LRM volleys while walking in the open water area in winter forest colony.

[Supercakers]

People are waaaay too fixated on damage numbers and kills. What I care about is winning the match. You know what you are doing when you fire for 20 seconds on that atlas salvo after salvo, but not "getting the kill" for it? You are stripping his armor. Shredding it off of him, making it easier to kill him. I love to see a hail of LRM's coming in to hit my targets as a light mech pilot, whether it's just me or a few of us fighting them. I know it's very disconcerting to be getting slammed while you are fighting, because it's not something you can just ignore for very long (unless you are an Atlas, but that's as it should be, and it still does plenty of damage.)

When you are getting hit by lrm's your armor is getting stripped off you all over the place, and you can't concentrate on perfect targeting to hit the red shoulder on your enemy, you are snapping off shots while you try to get some cover. While you may not be getting massive kills as an lrm boat (which really only gives a little bit of exp for kills, spotting gives just as much $), you are doing your job in a fire support role; dishing out unreciprocated damage from a massive range, causing physical (armor) and mental problems for the enemy. Perfect!

[Shaddock]

Supercakers, on 11 November 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

When you are getting hit by lrm's your armor is getting stripped off you all over the place, and you can't concentrate on perfect targeting to hit the red shoulder on your enemy, you are snapping off shots while you try to get some cover. While you may not be getting massive kills as an lrm boat (which really only gives a little bit of exp for kills, spotting gives just as much $), you are doing your job in a fire support role; dishing out unreciprocated damage from a massive range, causing physical (armor) and mental problems for the enemy. Perfect!

I agree that is the purpose, but in my experience the current damage is not enough to cause them to lose significant armor or change their behavior on the battlefield in any significant way,

[Dren Nas]

Supercakers, on 11 November 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

People are waaaay too fixated on damage numbers and kills. What I care about is winning the match. You know what you are doing when you fire for 20 seconds on that atlas salvo after salvo, but not "getting the kill" for it? You are stripping his armor. Shredding it off of him, making it easier to kill him. I love to see a hail of LRM's coming in to hit my targets as a light mech pilot, whether it's just me or a few of us fighting them. I know it's very disconcerting to be getting slammed while you are fighting, because it's not something you can just ignore for very long (unless you are an Atlas, but that's as it should be, and it still does plenty of damage.)

When you are getting hit by lrm's your armor is getting stripped off you all over the place, and you can't concentrate on perfect targeting to hit the red shoulder on your enemy, you are snapping off shots while you try to get some cover. While you may not be getting massive kills as an lrm boat (which really only gives a little bit of exp for kills, spotting gives just as much $), you are doing your job in a fire support role; dishing out unreciprocated damage from a massive range, causing physical (armor) and mental problems for the enemy. Perfect!

You get higher experience for kills. Also, you can't win unless you kill enemy mechs.

[Iron Jim]

I can only assume the complaints about the current status of LRMs are due to them no longer being the "I win right now!" button they used to be. I still run a 40LRM Atlas (with Artemis). I usually get 2-3 kills in most games. (If I don't it's probably because my team did something really dumb, like all chasing a Jenner all over the rest of the map while the other team steam-rolled our base, or running, one at a time, into the massed firepower of the other team. Truly, some of the ******** stuff people do is awe-inspiring.)

On the other hand, I can no longer, all by myself, exterminate a brawler Atlas who breaks cover at 500 meters before he can get into effective brawling range. I also can't rack up 7 kills by myself and 1600 points of damage. My damage is now comparable to the brawler Atlases who closer intelligently. Since I do my damage from the safety of a spot behind a hill 800 meters away while the brawler is getting shot in the face, this seems more than fair.

In short, LRMs are still great. The fix seems reasonable. I still get to do top damage from complete safety, but my damage output is fair compared to others, even if I don't have the same risk level. (I suppose you could argue my LRMs are still overpowered because I do my damage from safety while the brawler gets shot up, but I find that point debatable.)

[Aedensin]

Noth, on 10 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

What I'm saying, you are a support mech that allows his team mates to kill faster without putting themselves in immediate danger. If damage done is insignificant why do I see so many people get absolutely trashed by LRMs for not finding cover?

My hunchback can easily ignore LRM barrages with little to no consequence, wading through them to rip into the enemy with laser hell. Even streaks are a non threat.

[The Wine Gnat]

I raged against LRM being WAY WAY WAY OP. Now I just bought my first Cat and man, they barely do any damg. Anyhow, I put on 5 SRM6's on my cat, and the thing consistently does 450+ damg a game. About twice what my LRMs were doing and it's mch more fun.

[Kaijin]

Dorque, on 11 November 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Stop putting words in my mouth and please try to recognize the tongue-in-cheek nature of the post you quoted (hint:it was almost word-for-word a copy of Shaddock's post to demonstrate the flaws in his argument)

I'm not going to restate my points. I think that at most they need some minor tweaking.

You're right on one point - I've gone over your post history and discovered you've never said or insinuated LRM users are incapable of using anything else. I apologize for crediting that sentiment to you.

My only defense is it is a sentiment oft expressed by those who argue most vigorously for LRMs to be nerfed or to remain nerfed, and who maintain that LRMs and those who use them are only in the game for the purpose of softening up enemy targets so so that they (the brawlers) can make the kills. As this latter part of their position is an opinion you have stated as your own, I hope you can understand my blunder.

Edited by Kaijin, 11 November 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Just a query to ask all those pilots who are saying "I use Lrms and am having no problems". Are you using them with or without Artemis? (Forget Tag or Narc (which no one uses, i mean why waste 4 tonnes when you could stick in Tag and have 3 tonnes spare)).

Edit : If you ARE using Artemis, try them without and come back and tell us your results

Edited by Kaziganthi, 11 November 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Kaziganthi, on 11 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Just a query to ask all those pilots who are saying "I use Lrms and am having no problems". Are you using them with or without Artemis? (Forget Tag or Narc (which no one uses, i mean why waste 4 tonnes when you vould stick in Tag and have 3 tonnnes spare)).

No Artemis. Just an LRM 15 to back up my other guns.

Just today I specifically watched the damage read-outs as I bombarded an enemy Atlas, and it dropped by about one color code across most of its upper half with each volley. Of course, it went down super fast after more people started shooting, but the damage even from that single launcher was far from negligible.