791 replies to this topic

[Scratx]

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

yes... a weapon that does about 1/3rd of it's possible damage as real damage at best and requires copious amounts of space (ammo included) is balanced.

It also has among the highest ranges in the game, doesn't need to expose the shooter to their targets (or anyone else for that matter) and is quite forgiving while "aiming" it.

See, I can make a list of attributes rebuking your point just as you did his.

[Dren Nas]

Scratx, on 12 November 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

It also has among the highest ranges in the game, doesn't need to expose the shooter to their targets (or anyone else for that matter) and is quite forgiving while "aiming" it.

See, I can make a list of attributes rebuking your point just as you did his.

untrue, you have to expose a spotter. Then the spotter has to hold the spot. Powering down for a moment and then powering back up breaks the lock and throws the missiles off. If you're at these long ranges you have enough time to power up/down and move and lol to your self as the missiles land where you were.

[Wispsy]

Try using and encouraging tag. I find almost all of my damage is splattered across 3 sections at most, the main one being the ct.
Anyway that aside. If you cannot find a way to use lrms to gain a tactical advantage, in single combat and/or group, then you are doing it wrong and they are not the weapon for you.

[Scratx]

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

untrue, you have to expose a spotter. Then the spotter has to hold the spot. Powering down for a moment and then powering back up breaks the lock and throws the missiles off. If you're at these long ranges you have enough time to power up/down and move and lol to your self as the missiles land where you were.

- The launcher doesn't have to expose himself, though granted, someone has to be.
- Powering down and back up has tricky timing to pull off. Too early and the lock is reacquired and you get a back full of missiles. Too late and you get slammed dead on. Also better hope you're not being TAG'ed, otherwise don't bother with this. Remember, the missiles keep going to attack the last known location of their target...

[Choombatta]

Dorque, on 12 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I don't believe that, otherwise there would not be a fair selection of weaponry with optimal range inside 200m.

Mechs are designed to play different roles. Long-range Mechs are long-range, short-range Mechs are short-range and it's very much an RPS system, at least in theory, and especially in an urban environment. BT lore is absolutely full of Mechs that are skilled urban brawlers because a lot of wars involve cities, caves, etc.

This isn't COD but it also isn't Artillery Duel/Scorched Earth/Worms/Soldat, depending on what era you're from.

First, how many weapons in this game have a max range of under 200m? Most will fall between 260-500m.

Second, Mechs ARE designed to play different roles, but, when players find an opposing role too "hard" for them to deal with, they have that role nerfed.

We will end up with nothing but close brawling Mechs.............isn't there already a game for that?

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

untrue, you have to expose a spotter. Then the spotter has to hold the spot. Powering down for a moment and then powering back up breaks the lock and throws the missiles off. If you're at these long ranges you have enough time to power up/down and move and lol to your self as the missiles land where you were.

Powering down in front of a spotter is not always a good plan. Especially as once you power back up they regain lock and the missiles come back at you anyway....And if you do not they will go to their last location....which is where you are.

Just saying...

[Alexander Kerensky]

Continuously calling LRMs in their current incarnation indirect fire weapons is completely incorrect. Even with a spotter, they still slam into virtually any terrain in front of their target.

Perhaps they would be balanced, if Gauss Rifles didn't exist.

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

This what what people are seeing.

Total side note.
Just realised seen as you were so focused on total accuracy. Even the lowest damage estimates would have an atlas cored within 700 missiles. To say it does not "phase" him is clearly untrue....
Being super pedantic is fun right?!

[XvDraxvX]

Wispsy, on 12 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Total side note.
Just realised seen as you were so focused on total accuracy. Even the lowest damage estimates would have an atlas cored within 700 missiles. To say it does not "phase" him is clearly untrue....
Being super pedantic is fun right?!

700 Missiles divided by 40 missiles (2 LRM20's)= 18 shots

Thats a lot of shots would it take 18 Gauss shots?

[Dren Nas]

Scratx, on 12 November 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

- The launcher doesn't have to expose himself, though granted, someone has to be.
- Powering down and back up has tricky timing to pull off. Too early and the lock is reacquired and you get a back full of missiles. Too late and you get slammed dead on. Also better hope you're not being TAG'ed, otherwise don't bother with this. Remember, the missiles keep going to attack the last known location of their target...

Perhaps, I misread that; however, missiles only have an effective range of 1000m... after that they kinda stop flying. ER Lasers can still do damage outside of 1000m. Lasers don't have a maximum range. They just have reduced damage.... as opposed to 0 damage after you're outside of missiles range.

Wispsy, on 12 November 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Powering down in front of a spotter is not always a good plan. Especially as once you power back up they regain lock and the missiles come back at you anyway....And if you do not they will go to their last location....which is where you are.

Just saying...

Tricky isn't the same as hard. Once you learn to do it it's easy.

Also, the enemy player may relock you, but in my experience, the missiles don't start tracking you again. Try strafing to the side, powering down( your mech still moves in that direction), then you power back up, and continue moving. You should be hit by fewer (if any) missiles if you do it right.

[Dren Nas]

Wispsy, on 12 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Total side note.
Just realised seen as you were so focused on total accuracy. Even the lowest damage estimates would have an atlas cored within 700 missiles. To say it does not "phase" him is clearly untrue....
Being super pedantic is fun right?!

Yes, hitting an atlas with every missile on his core will core him within 700 missiles fired, but as we all know missiles spread and don't hit in one spot... I think there was a bug recently that did that.....

Just saying.

[Scratx]

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Tricky isn't the same as hard. Once you learn to do it it's easy.

Also, the enemy player may relock you, but in my experience, the missiles don't start tracking you again. Try strafing to the side, powering down( your mech still moves in that direction), then you power back up, and continue moving. You should be hit by fewer (if any) missiles if you do it right.

You're clearly being shot at by people who immediately switch targets. Relocking does get the missiles in flight tracking you again.

Or you have no idea what you're talking about but I like to think you actually have a clue about LRM behaviour.

[Shaddock]

XvDraxvX, on 12 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

700 Missiles divided by 40 missiles (2 LRM20's)= 18 shots

Thats a lot of shots would it take 18 Gauss shots?

Not at all, not center torso aimed ones at least

[Wispsy]

XvDraxvX, on 12 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

700 Missiles divided by 40 missiles (2 LRM20's)= 18 shots

Thats a lot of shots would it take 18 Gauss shots?

I did not say this was the required amount, infact I have not needed to use this many myself unless I miss a fair amount (fire at rocks) or he + 1 or more of his team have ams and I am the only one with any lrms...Even then you can burn their ams ammo a lot faster (if more expensive) then you burn your missiles.

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Yes, hitting an atlas with every missile on his core will core him within 700 missiles fired, but as we all know missiles spread and don't hit in one spot... I think there was a bug recently that did that.....

Just saying.

hitting with the majority on his core with the rest spreading to side torsos will still core him, which is what happens when you use tag and that is only required for the absolute lowest estimates which are over half again lower then stated dmg numbers.
There is no way it would not phase him, no way in hell. Anyway I was just pointing it out considering your post earlier.

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Perhaps, I misread that; however, missiles only have an effective range of 1000m... after that they kinda stop flying. ER Lasers can still do damage outside of 1000m. Lasers don't have a maximum range. They just have reduced damage.... as opposed to 0 damage after you're outside of missiles range.



Tricky isn't the same as hard. Once you learn to do it it's easy.

Also, the enemy player may relock you, but in my experience, the missiles don't start tracking you again. Try strafing to the side, powering down( your mech still moves in that direction), then you power back up, and continue moving. You should be hit by fewer (if any) missiles if you do it right.

Well ER large lasers have MASSIVE heat to compensate for their range...

Anyway it is possible that they changed the relocking of targets and I have not noticed and they have not said anything. however I have found pre patch and I am quite sure still now. When target is reacquired missiles will turn up to full 180 degrees to get back on target. I made a habit and a number of posts infact on how if you are having trouble hitting light mechs as a solo lrm boat all you need do is lose lock as they are in the air and then reacquire it and they come at it from multiple angles meaning the light mech cannot dodge the majority of the missiles.
Edit: That ofc is only necessary if you do not have your own tag and nobody on your team is tagging, as when tagged the majority of missiles will always hit the light mech unless he makes it solidly behind cover.

Edited by Wispsy, 12 November 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[XvDraxvX]

Shaddock, on 12 November 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

Not at all, not center torso aimed ones at least

Keep in mind though not all 700 missiles will hit the CT either so really its likely more like 2100 missiles to kill a Atlas CT. Or 54 shots versus your steady consistent precise Gauss shots.

LRM's are weak right now and need some love. They went to far with the nerfs.

[Tebbo]

Choombatta, on 12 November 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

The crux of the problem, IMHO.
This is NOT Call of Duty. You do not shoot "damn gun"s in this game.
You pilot large walking tanks with large ordinance.

If the majority of your fighting is taking place under 200m, you are doing it wrong.

:/

or people can play differently.

should i not use pulse lasers, lbx, srm, small lasers? because i need to be close to use any of those to any real good effect. so i guess i'm doing it wrong because i chose to play differently than you.

because in BT we're always shooting at each other from like 10+ hexes away right? no one EVER uses mechs that hang around 3-5 hexes. right?

:/

[XvDraxvX]

Wispsy, on 12 November 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

hitting with the majority on his core with the rest spreading to side torsos will still core him, which is what happens when you use tag and that is only required for the absolute lowest estimates which are over half again lower then stated dmg numbers.
There is no way it would not phase him, no way in hell. Anyway I was just pointing it out considering your post earlier.

Well ER large lasers have MASSIVE heat to compensate for their range...

Most and by Most i mean no good or decent player runs a XL on a Atlas so no a RT or LT shot will not Slay a Atlas.

Secondly your Heat example is 1 draw back maybe also Terrain and needing LOS.

I think we can Agree that with AMS, AMS Sharing, Heat, Needing a CONSTANT LOS or Spotter on target, Terrain, and a GIANT "INCOMING MISSILES" warning there are far more counters for LRM Fire. OH and the fact that like he said after 1000m our missiles blow up doing 0 DMG

[Wispsy]

XvDraxvX, on 12 November 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Keep in mind though not all 700 missiles will hit the CT either so really its likely more like 2100 missiles to kill a Atlas CT. Or 54 shots versus your steady consistent precise Gauss shots.

LRM's are weak right now and need some love. They went to far with the nerfs.

Honestly even if missiles were doing 0.7dmg 700 is 400 dmg an atlas has 600 points of armour TOTAL and focusing on ct/side torsos 400 damage will get them and at 1.7 it is 1200 damage, enough to completely strip 2 atlas if every missile spread evenly across the mech...instead of being focused towards mainly ct...

[XvDraxvX]

Wispsy, on 12 November 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

Honestly even if missiles were doing 0.7dmg 700 is 400 dmg an atlas has 600 points of armour TOTAL and focusing on ct/side torsos 400 damage will get them and at 1.7 it is 1200 damage, enough to completely strip 2 atlas if every missile spread evenly across the mech...instead of being focused towards mainly ct...

But again your assuming all missiles hit, the way it is now even on a stationary target, missiles with a solid lock are missing.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope feels that LRMs are still useful support weapons and when he has been on LRM heavy teams the results have been rather wonderful.