791 replies to this topic

[Dren Nas]

Mavairo, on 14 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

It can be considered one yes. the Streak Cat isn't going to be in the hottest part of a given furball for very long. It jumps in, locks on, dumps shots, gets out if it knows what's best for it. (unless the enemy team is completely functionally mentally handicapped and refuse to switch targets and kill the streak cat before it kills someone) Then comes back when it's ready for another go. While it is -in- the furball it's not the anchor point of one. Much like how a full energy 1C Dragon is. They are skirmishers, to assist the guys that are actually doing the grunt work and soaking fire.

Ridiculous.

Just a FYI, I have taken out an atlas with my 6x SSRM catapult, almost full armor XL 300 engine and 4x jump jets.

A streakcat can stand in a "furball" for an extended period while chain rocking cockpits which throws off the shots of your target with a constant stream of SSRM fire. You might not "soak" the damage into your chasis, but you negate it through other means.

Generally, I eat lights with this build, but it can take down big boys when needed.

RG Notch, on 14 November 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Something is telling me that the ones saying they are useless are those who got hoked on the OP LRMs prior to the hotfix.It's stereotyping great.

Dead horse. Beaten. Again. FFS leave it alone. I didn't even play those two days they were bugged, and I'm saying LRMS are underpowered.

[Ransack]

Took a week off. Came back with new eyes. LRM's now suck moose ballz! My Catapult fleet is worthless now. Any weapon that the enemy does not fear is not worth using. People no longer fear LRM's. The QQ crowd has won this round, and PGI has lost the chance of additional money from me.

[Dorque]

Lykaon, on 14 November 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

When firing indirectly I saw scores as poor as 80 damage from 10+ vollies.This is not a matter of my performance it is the weapon system's performance.Prior to the last patch (the godlike LRMS and subsiquent nerfing) I would routinely land damage scores in the 500-800 and on occation land damage over 1000. (during the uber LURMS period I would only do around 500 damage but make 6 kills so yeah way over powered)

Oh my god, seriously? No other weapon system (except in extreme circumstances) does 500-800, occasionally over 1000, "routinely".

Read some end-of-match stats and realize that you're actually on par now.

[Grizley]

Here is a little example of dedicated boats that are worthless other than spamming their missile load undisturbed. These are the builds that are dumping more ammo than intended and so paying more than they want.

http://www.mechspecs...-Founders-Cat-1 6tons of ammo, non-Artemis.

http://www.mechspecs...elmers-Catapult 6 tons of ammo, pre-Artemis.

The rest of the Cat builds add significant secondary weaponry. I was surprised how few boat builds had been submitted compared to how many I see in game.

It's just a bad idea to load up a mech with 50+ LRM launchers and enough ammo to spam missiles for 10 minutes. It's also a bad idea to create ANY mech that runs completely out of ammo and is worthless. Loss of effectiveness is fine, complete punching bag is not.

[Violette]

(Quote) Me:

I'm very happy to see that I am not the only one who has noticed that LRMs are still very much in use, and that with great success. (End Quote)

Dorque, on 14 November 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

You are absolutely not. In case it's passed YOUR notice, the "argument" in this thread is basically being carried by the same 3 people.

That is all, I'm out again.

Sorry, good point. I had sort of noticed, yes... IDK why I hung around so long. :|

[Dren Nas]

Dorque, on 14 November 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Oh my god, seriously? No other weapon system (except in extreme circumstances) does 500-800, occasionally over 1000, "routinely".

Read some end-of-match stats and realize that you're actually on par now.

When, other than when LRMs were bugged recently, did players rack up over 1000 damage "routinely" during the build before before the Artemis was introduced?

Edited by Dren Nas, 14 November 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[MadcatX]

Dren Nas, on 14 November 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

When, other than when LRMs were bugged recently, did players rack up over 1000 damage "routinely" during the build before before the Artemis was introduced?

It's happened, but it was usually a rare occurrence. If you were in a premade or running an assault missileboat with a good spotter it was doable. But it was very hit-or-miss if you were in a PUG.

[General Taskeen]

Dorque, on 14 November 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Oh my god, seriously? No other weapon system (except in extreme circumstances) does 500-800, occasionally over 1000, "routinely".

Read some end-of-match stats and realize that you're actually on par now.

Wrong. Here is me with my PPC's and SRMs. Am I gonna get nerfed?

example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5

Looks pretty routine to me.

[Dren Nas]

General Taskeen, on 14 November 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Wrong. Here is me with my PPC's and SRMs. Am I gonna get nerfed?

example 1
example 2
example 3
example 4
example 5

Looks pretty routine to me.

Careful.... don't let the anti-lrm faction see this.... you'll be on the "haxxor" list shortly after. o.o

[LordSkippy]

Before open beta, I was a LRM boat driver. After open beta, I was running the cheapskate - http://www.mechspecs...(C-Bill-Grinder) - founder's cat spec to grind enough c-bills to do my LRM boat loadout (don't want to use up my MCs). Didn't have time to play during the post Artemis patch, so I won't comment on how LRMs were playing then.

Over the past couple of days, I've noticed it isn't worth going after LRM boats. It's better to save them until last. It isn't even worth it to take cover if you're engaged in brawling with another mech. It's only worth trying to break the lock if you're on the move and cover is right next to you. If cover isn't there, don't worry, the damage is minimal. LRMs are now about as menacing as machine guns. Only machine guns have arguably more worth, due to the possible crit-seeking.

My next Cat will be either a SSRM or K2 cat. I'm not going to bother with LRMs in their current state, because they are next to useless.

Edited by LordSkippy, 14 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[Mechwarrior413183]

Grizley, on 14 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

I don't think they should remove LRMs.

Lets look at an example. You have an Atlas with an LRM20, he goes through a ton, maybe two of ammo per match. Pays 10k or whatever per ton to reload. He is getting good value for using the LRM.

Now if you extend that out to a Cat C4 who is burning through 10-20 tons of Artemis LRM ammo per round. He is using advanced ammo so he pays 15k a ton or whatever and is looking at 150k in ammo cost. He is not getting good value.

I think this is perfect. It's a viable weapon system without being gamebreakingly overpowered when boated. What else do you want? Hell they even let you boat it like crazy if you either add more ammo than you need so you just take the free 75% or you plunk down the money and go all Macross with missile alpha strikes all games.



I love the oddball configs.

4 ERPPCs in a Cicada makes me laugh. The idea of a medium mech slowly trundling around and landing 50+ point alphas at large laser range gets at least a snicker.

2 LRM15/20s and 10tons of ammo isn't boating that's just standard for a Catapult, your C4 would have at most 2 MLs so he's not winning a close in fight against anyone who's not already half dead or worse, thus he must be able to stay at range and fire LRMs as long as possible, the C1 is better off up close but it's still not a good idea to fight an HBK-4P with just 4 MLs unless he's already been messed up bad.

LRMs don't deserve to be so expensive anyway with them in their current state I've done just as much damage as 2 Artemis LRM 15s with 2 ERLLs and a pair of mediums. The cost just isn't inline with the results you get.

[MWHawke]

LOL! My Streak 2 just missed a shutdown atlas!!!

[Kaziganthi]

Kilgore, on 14 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Also, since knockdown has to be fixed no matter what, it stands to reason that fixing both knockdown and LRM damage at the same time make LRMs more OP than desired.

So when knock downs come back, you want them to nerf LRM's even more as it is ONLY going to make LRM's more powerful. Don't make me laugh, most mechs are up off the ground before a salvo from 800m away even lands. If anything becomes more OP, it will be brawler weapons, so they should all get damage reductions and then they'll be on par with LRM once more.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 November 2012 - 01:22 AM.

[Wolven]

MWHawke, on 14 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

LOL! My Streak 2 just missed a shutdown atlas!!!

Yes, shutdown breaks locks. That's working as intended.

[Arthamel]

LRM's are fine now, with one exception. They need to put knockback into them again, so the supressing fire will be effective. If they do that, at least in my opinion they will be perfect. LRM is support and supression, not killerboat.

[vaakuum]

As i see the only problem is this:



This is not a supporting mech, as the video shows..... and players dont want too much, just what this video shows: good position + a lot of lrms shotted in one (which is expensive to buy btw) + clear hit (no cover for the enemy) + no any dodge (lrm'***** almost in line without turning) = fast kill.

[Little Dave]

All those saying about damage have missed the point that the damage is all over the mech, so any lrm fire has to do more damage for the same effect as direct fire used well. Just spamming them at distant targets will often lose lock or hit cover. That is ok, it takes a different type of skill then to get your payload on target, I approve. They perhaps lack a little in the punch department, but you can provide fire support to more positions at any one time than direct fire.

However, even if the damage and flight path are quite close to where they are contributing but not dominating, their cost, especially for any dubious benefit artemis gives, is well out of proportion. If I have to hammer a hunchback with 3-4 volleys of artemis when I'm in LOS to make him close to sorry, i'm not sure I'm doing more damage to my income in ammo than to him in repair costs.

[Dorque]

Dren Nas, on 14 November 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

When, other than when LRMs were bugged recently, did players rack up over 1000 damage "routinely" during the build before before the Artemis was introduced?

I dunno, ask the guy I quoted, Nerd-san.

[RG Notch]

Funny, when LRMS were OP as these folks liked, there was an uproar on the forums, yet now that they are "useless" I see few people up in arms. I guess some folks are somehow dealing with these "useless" weapons and didn't get used to how OP they were and miss it. I'm sure the people who want LRMs dominating the game again will blame it on players being stupid brawlers as apparently all the "smart" players want to sit back and use a lock on weapon where they can't be seen.
Balancing is never popular when you used to be OP so I get where they're coming from.

[wanderer]

Kaziganthi, on 14 November 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

So when Clan tech comes in and the minmum range on LRM's is removed, all those "Boats" now become "Carriers" or will their be a cry to nerf all the LRM boats..oops i mean carriers, again.

Clantech is (and should remain) apples to the Inner Sphere's oranges- and has no balance vs. IS gear, only vs. itself.

The day we see Clantech allowed for IS chassis is when we hit full-ahead on the stupid throttle and ram headlong into an iceberg of fail.

No Clantech for IS teams, no IS tech for Clan teams in matches. The only sane thing to do.

CLRMs are deadly as heck vs. IS ones, but hey, you didn't even mention they're also half the weight and less crits...wait. All Clantech is inherently superior to IS versions (for decades more, anyway)...

Try keeping to the subject. Clan LRMs may as well be an entirely new weapon system, considering what they can do and how light and compact they are.