791 replies to this topic

[Kaijin]

vaakuum, on 15 November 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

As i see the only problem is this:



This is not a supporting mech, as the video shows..... and players dont want too much, just what this video shows: good position + a lot of lrms shotted in one (which is expensive to buy btw) + clear hit (no cover for the enemy) + no any dodge (lrm'***** almost in line without turning) = fast kill.

Good find! Seems PGI wants 'support' mechs to get kills too.

Edited by Kaijin, 15 November 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Kaijin]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I use lrms and they are very useful. I do not believe you have followed any of the suggestions here on this thread on how to improve your lrm playing. Instead you just want a damage buff. Once you have learnt the mechanics behind lrms and how to use them effectively then feel free to come back and argue that they are too weak. If you are just going to play badly and cry they do not work and ignore all advice at improving then people will respond in kind, with l2p stop looking for an easy button.

If only we could dig into the CB posts...

[Kaziganthi]

wanderer, on 15 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Clantech is (and should remain) apples to the Inner Sphere's oranges- and has no balance vs. IS gear, only vs. itself.

The day we see Clantech allowed for IS chassis is when we hit full-ahead on the stupid throttle and ram headlong into an iceberg of fail.

No Clantech for IS teams, no IS tech for Clan teams in matches. The only sane thing to do.

CLRMs are deadly as heck vs. IS ones, but hey, you didn't even mention they're also half the weight and less crits...wait. All Clantech is inherently superior to IS versions (for decades more, anyway)...

Try keeping to the subject. Clan LRMs may as well be an entirely new weapon system, considering what they can do and how light and compact they are.

And your now twisting the argument from damage to weight and crits. They do exactly the same damage per missile just have no minimum range.

Most have argued LRM's are fine now, damage wise, due to their ability to pound from long ranges as they are a "support weapon" only. And as they have a minimum range they are useless under 180m, so that "support weapon" becomes useless when they can't even put the fear of God into a light mech to keep his distance or find a sneakier approach rather than running full speed across open terrain to take them out.

Now when that minimum range is removed, I can just about guarantee all the brawlers will scream about how powerful the LRM boats will be (if/when you see a Mad Cat carrying 50 lrms) and ask for them again to be nerfed into uselessness when they can get pounded by that many missiles from 10 metres away, plus whatever other weaponry the mech maybe carrying.

Edit : And at half the weight and crits, where you might see a 65 tonne cat with 50 LRMs, you'll probably see a 75 tonne Madcat with 100 LRMS and no minimum range. How many brawlers are going to love that config and not scream about it, even if they are piloting clan mechs themselves.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 November 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Wispsy]

Victory achieved
http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445
0.1 dmg increase

Now they should go from "useless" to fine.
Judging from the comments here I believe most people should be happy with this.
If spread and/or accuracy is your issue there are ways already in the game to compensate for that...


Nothing about price though which I think is the biggest issue... but oh well.

Edited by Wispsy, 15 November 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[wanderer]

Kaziganthi, on 15 November 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

And your now twisting the argument from damage to weight and crits. They do exactly the same damage per missile just have no minimum range.

And I can mount more of them, too. If I swapped in a pair of Clan LRM 15's for the IS ones, I'd have myself 7 extra tons to play with- and more critical space to boot. That translates into more performance, period. Clan LRMs are not IS LRMs. They are, in every sense of the word, a different animal. Their DHS are different. Their weapons vary wildly in performance vs. IS equivalents. There is no "balance" between the two, nor should their be.

Quote

Most have argued LRM's are fine now, damage wise, due to their ability to pound from long ranges as they are a "support weapon" only. And as they have a minimum range they are useless under 180m, so that "support weapon" becomes useless when they can't even put the fear of God into a light mech to keep his distance or find a sneakier approach rather than running full speed across open terrain to take them out.

Now when that minimum range is removed, I can just about guarantee all the brawlers will scream about how powerful the LRM boats will be (if/when you see a Mad Cat carrying 50 lrms) and ask for them again to be nerfed into uselessness when they can get pounded by that many missiles from 10 metres away, plus whatever other weaponry the mech maybe carrying.

Wait till they start crying about medium lasers that hit like large lasers. You know the Clan ER ML?

How about large pulse lasers that hit IS ER LL ranges? For more damage?

Clantech is completely different levels of discussion than IS tech. And will cause it's own kind of screaming. Apples and oranges. It doesn't even remotely belong in discussions about IS LRMs- the two may as well be entirely different weapons thanks to performance.

[Choombatta]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

But I do understand why the other side feels who they do. They went from Gods on the battlefield to just ordinary players. Who wouldn't be upset? And who wouldn't realize that asking for the power of the Gods back would not go over well? So of course one would argue that they merely want them to be "competitive" or "lethal" which I gather means OP.
My opinion is simply that LRMs were over nerfed and need some buffing. But I refuse to listen to the hyperbole that they are "useless". None of the pro LRM faction has seemed to back off this statement, that leads me to believe they feel anything less than OP is useless. If you think that hyperbole helps your argument you are wrong. I have asked people to recalibrate and step back from the "useless" statements but all I get is the same crap that they don't want the OP. If that's true than state they aren't "useless" and maybe there is room for discussion.
Your opinion is equally as valid as mine, but if you expect your opinion to be treated seriously I would suggest dropping the hyperbole. If you truly feel they are "useless" then I stick to my belief you merely want to rule the battlefield again.

"Gods", and we are the ones using hyperbole...............gotcha!

I really wish we could dig up the closed beta forums also Kaijin, then it would be obvious how we have no clue how LRMs work and we just want a "God Mode"................. /snicker

Again, if you consider everyone who says LRMs are not fine want a God Mode weapon..............well, you are the one generalizing here.

I want LRMs to be as viable as any other weapon system in game ( system, i.e. Ballistic, Laser, Missile, not machineguns vs. gauss rifle ).

Direct or Indirect fire, both should be able to "kill" Mechs equally.

[NaerahQc]

Kaijin, on 15 November 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Good find! Seems PGI wants 'support' mechs to get kills too.

That video is soooooo old, back when LRMs were actualy doing damage. But now you're happy if you manage to destroy components with them and for that you need 700+ missiles.

The problem may be more with missile spread and hit detection than damage because depending on the game , firing all my 720 missiles, sometimes i'll rack up to around 250 damages at the end-game screen, other games doing the same things will show me i did 50-75 damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Victory achieved
http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445
0.1 dmg increase

Now they should go from "useless" to fine.
Judging from the comments here I believe most people should be happy with this.
If spread and/or accuracy is your issue there are ways already in the game to compensate for that...


Nothing about price though which I think is the biggest issue... but oh well.

I think the addition of 2-3 points of possible damage per salvo will be just right.

[RG Notch]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

"Gods", and we are the ones using hyperbole...............gotcha!

I really wish we could dig up the closed beta forums also Kaijin, then it would be obvious how we have no clue how LRMs work and we just want a "God Mode"................. /snicker

Again, if you consider everyone who says LRMs are not fine want a God Mode weapon..............well, you are the one generalizing here.

I want LRMs to be as viable as any other weapon system in game ( system, i.e. Ballistic, Laser, Missile, not machineguns vs. gauss rifle ).

Direct or Indirect fire, both should be able to "kill" Mechs equally.

See still ignoring the issue. Are LRMs currently useless? I didn't say everyone who said LRMs aren't fine wants God mode. I said those who claim they are "useless" do? Also if direct and indirect can "kill" mechs equally that is simply OP. Never mind I'm not likely to get an answer to what I'm actually asking as some folks are still upset their easy button got taken away.

[NaerahQc]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Victory achieved
http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445
0.1 dmg increase

Now they should go from "useless" to fine.
Judging from the comments here I believe most people should be happy with this.
If spread and/or accuracy is your issue there are ways already in the game to compensate for that...


Nothing about price though which I think is the biggest issue... but oh well.

That's a step in the right direction at least, i'm gonna wait and see when it's fixed how it turn's out.

[Choombatta]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

See still ignoring the issue. Are LRMs currently useless? I didn't say everyone who said LRMs aren't fine wants God mode. I said those who claim they are "useless" do? Also if direct and indirect can "kill" mechs equally that is simply OP. Never mind I'm not likely to get an answer to what I'm actually asking as some folks are still upset their easy button got taken away.

Yes, as an Atlas pilot, I ignore LRMs completely. So, from my point of view, anyone using them against me is using a useless weapon AT THIS MOMENT.

Let me make that perfectly clear, right now!

Adding a warning message, increasing the spread, lessening the damage, all at the same time..............

So, because I think LRMs are useless, and I do not use them.......I must want my God Mode, right?

Gauss Rifle is all the God Mode I need. No heat. Longer range. Less ammo cost. More damage..........
Yep, that is all the God Mode I need.

[The Herrick]

Gawd, people don't understand that LRM's are useless now. It's as if I'm relegated to some sort of long range support role now, it's horrible, all I do is soften up the enemy for my team mates who are actually playing on the front lines, it's terrible those plebs are stealing kills that are rightfully mine. I bet they don't even have enhanced gold vision!

Why PGI? It's almost like you expect me to PLAY your game now.

[Wispsy]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, as an Atlas pilot, I ignore LRMs completely. So, from my point of view, anyone using them against me is using a useless weapon AT THIS MOMENT.

Let me make that perfectly clear, right now!

Adding a warning message, increasing the spread, lessening the damage, all at the same time..............

So, because I think LRMs are useless, and I do not use them.......I must want my God Mode, right?

Gauss Rifle is all the God Mode I need. No heat. Longer range. Less ammo cost. More damage..........
Yep, that is all the God Mode I need.

Purely anecdotal though. I have seen many an atlas think they can ignore lrms and get melted by them.

[Choombatta]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Purely anecdotal though. I have seen many an atlas think they can ignore lrms and get melted by them.

Same back at ya.
Can you assure us those Atlases did not strip any armor?

You have not watched the videos of an Atlas getting pounded by wave after wave of LRMs, and still kept going?

Yes, LRMs CAN kill an Atlas. You will kill an Atlas faster and cheaper with any other weapon system.

[Grizley]

MWHawke, on 15 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Sad thing is it also missed atlas's which are standing still.. Must be a poor quality missile chip..

Really? In a world where it's common to miss with an autocannon at 600m you complain about how accurate missiles are?

Look at an Abrams, how often does it miss compared a much smaller target at 2500m?

Battletech targeting systems are junk, one of the reasons the seeking LRMs seem so bogus.

[Stormur Herra]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, as an Atlas pilot, I ignore LRMs completely. So, from my point of view, anyone using them against me is using a useless weapon AT THIS MOMENT.

Let me make that perfectly clear, right now!

Adding a warning message, increasing the spread, lessening the damage, all at the same time..............

So, because I think LRMs are useless, and I do not use them.......I must want my God Mode, right?

Gauss Rifle is all the God Mode I need. No heat. Longer range. Less ammo cost. More damage..........
Yep, that is all the God Mode I need.

Of my two Atlas kills in a commando so far one was with LRMs the other was with SRMs. (The SRM was also solo vs. a player even worse than me though.)

[Ghost_19Hz]

You guys praising the promo video do realize that it was a promo video right? Also, before that people complained that the promo videos needed to show more mechs killing other mechs and less just running around getting shot. and voila. there is no hidden game design agenda in the Founder Catapult promo video.

[Cyndryn]

The role of a dedicated LRM launcher is not to devastate the enemy. Our role is the soften up an enemy from afar (often from behind cover, even), and spread some damage around. The brawlers can then exploit opportunities that arise as a result (an LRM barrage does heavy damage to a Hunchback's torso, and the brawler sees an opportunity to take out that AC/20 as a result). We don't rack up kills, we're screwed when those Jenner run into our faces, but we're still doing essential work, dammit!

[Kaijin]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

But I do understand why the other side feels who they do. They went from Gods on the battlefield to just ordinary players.

You must be referring to that 48 hour Artemis experiment still.

In any event, I went from pre-Artemis patch 1 or 2 kills and 6 or 7 assists per match with my LRM Cat to 3 or 4 kills and 2 or 3 assists with my MPL Cat post LRM nerf.

I must have been just a lowly demi-god when I was using LRMs. Now...

But I'd go back to that demi-god status in a heartbeat because I liked the game with the layer of tactical complexity dangerous LRMs added. KDR is meaningless to me.

Edited by Kaijin, 15 November 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[Dren Nas]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I use lrms and they are very useful. I do not believe you have followed any of the suggestions here on this thread on how to improve your lrm playing. Instead you just want a damage buff. Once you have learnt the mechanics behind lrms and how to use them effectively then feel free to come back and argue that they are too weak. If you are just going to play badly and cry they do not work and ignore all advice at improving then people will respond in kind, with l2p stop looking for an easy button.

See, the thing is... I was already using what you advised, and you called me a troll because I said it does not help (because it dosen't).

Also, I don't think that a 0.1 damage increase is what is needed, but as a previous poster said it is a step in the right direction.