791 replies to this topic

[betocorp]

Using my previos fatlas config with 2xLMR I took 500missiles to 50%down a standing commando at 800m. The others 900 went to 20%down an atlas in the open. My ammo dried and I went meele with my 2xLL. Melted the atlas, a dragon and a hunch.

None to say.... LMR no more

ps: even I dont rearm, my ammo repair bill is at 145k

[Valdez Raptor]

I will agree with others the .1 damage change is something, but not the exactly what we were thinking about, but who knows maybe this tweak is the balance needed. So once it's in and I give a few test runs, I'll hold my thoughts on it till then.

[RG Notch]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes, as an Atlas pilot, I ignore LRMs completely. So, from my point of view, anyone using them against me is using a useless weapon AT THIS MOMENT.

Let me make that perfectly clear, right now!

Adding a warning message, increasing the spread, lessening the damage, all at the same time..............

So, because I think LRMs are useless, and I do not use them.......I must want my God Mode, right?

Gauss Rifle is all the God Mode I need. No heat. Longer range. Less ammo cost. More damage..........
Yep, that is all the God Mode I need.

Thanks for clearing that up. No reason to bother with you anymore. LRMs are only useless if useless = not OP. Glad we got that out of the way. Since your other choice is the OP gauss it's clear that you wouldn't use them if they weren't OP and thanks for proving my point. Wow 48 hours of God mode sure got some people hooked.

[MavRCK]

After reading many pages of opinions, I have to beg the question:

Until we have full 8-man premades and have the ability to coordinate as a team, is it not too soon to say whether or not LRMs are under / over - powered?

I think we should wait and see.

Edited by MavRCK, 15 November 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Percival Hasek]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Thanks for clearing that up. No reason to bother with you anymore. LRMs are only useless if useless = not OP. Glad we got that out of the way. Since your other choice is the OP gauss it's clear that you wouldn't use them if they weren't OP and thanks for proving my point. Wow 48 hours of God mode sure got some people hooked.

I'm glad you spoke up like this. It's quality thinking like this which has convinced the Devs to increase LRM damage. Thanks for voicing your argument in such a thoughtful, persuasive manner, and helping the LRM users out.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

(EDIT: Stop beating a dead horse. This post is not someone crying about wanting LRMs back to what they were when they were bugged for 48 hours. That horse is dead, and has nothing to do with my reasoning for the following post. Bury it, move on, and stop saying that's what I'm asking for because it isn't.)

At random times throughout the beta, I would pick a mech and run out in the open, be spotted, and diesoon afterward to the sky falling on top of my head. At others, I would be the one launching explosive death. I learned that to get away from LRMs you use cover and even powerdown randomly to break targeting locks.

Today, I can sit in my catapult and drop hell on an atlas trudging out in the open with my entire 700+ missiles and not even phase him.

It's quite disheartening to the point that I've even taken all LRMs off my Catapults and replaced them with SRMs or SRM Streaks.... or even removed missiles completely replaced with lasers.. or even dual Gauss (lolgausscat).

My point is that since the LRM nurf, there's really no reason to equip them when other long range weapons deal so much more damage. Oh, and before you say something along the lines of "QQmoar" or "That's all he plays", I have an atlas and yen lo wang that I play quite often.

TL;DR: LRMs have been nurfed too hard.

EDIT: Since there are so many of you that don't care to read through the thread before bashing me because I'm "whining about LRM's not still being broken", I just want to say I'm not. They were broken and op before the hotfix.

For the last time, this isn't a post crying about the needed fix for LRMs. This post is about the hotfix going too far and making them near useless.

So why can I kill 2-3 Atlas with my dual LRM15 Awesome, with around 1000 missiles?

[Dimento Graven]

NaerahQc, on 15 November 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

That's a step in the right direction at least, i'm gonna wait and see when it's fixed how it turn's out.

It's meaningless at the moment because there's no expected go-live date on any of this.

As far as we can tell this is a list of 'round-tuits'...

Bishop Steiner, on 15 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

So why can I kill 2-3 Atlas with my dual LRM15 Awesome, with around 1000 missiles?

Because you're KS'ing your team mates who have been beating them down for the past 5 minutes with other weapons.

I assure you that if you took those same 2 to 3 Atlas's put them in an open field at 500meters away, and launched your 1000 missles, you'd be lucky to get ONE down, much less 3.

Don't forget, there's usually 7 other people on your team doing damage to these same 'mechs. Just because you got the kill shot doesn't mean you did ALL or even most of the damage.

PLUS, give us a movie of you doing this before attempting to brag here and make the case that 'missles are fine or OP'. If I see a movie, post hotfix, of you taking down 3 Atlas's by yourself with only LRMs, I'll concede they should be nerfed further. Until you can do this (and I >>KNOW<< you can't), you need to think more clearly about what you're observing in game.

Eradhain, on 15 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

The role of a dedicated LRM launcher is not to devastate the enemy. Our role is the soften up an enemy from afar (often from behind cover, even), and spread some damage around. The brawlers can then exploit opportunities that arise as a result (an LRM barrage does heavy damage to a Hunchback's torso, and the brawler sees an opportunity to take out that AC/20 as a result). We don't rack up kills, we're screwed when those Jenner run into our faces, but we're still doing essential work, dammit!

Incorrect assumption. Our goal is to kill off as many of the enemy we can BEFORE they get to us.

If you don't understand that, you don't understand warfare.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 15 November 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 15 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

See, the thing is... I was already using what you advised, and you called me a troll because I said it does not help (because it dosen't).

Also, I don't think that a 0.1 damage increase is what is needed, but as a previous poster said it is a step in the right direction.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

But LRMs aren't forcing people to retreat, charge, or change their gameplay at the moment. I normally roll with a lance of 3 to 4 people. 1 light mech, a LRM catapult (which we're beginning to move away from now), and 1 to 2 other random mechs depending on how my group feels at that perticular moment. We have a dedicated ventrilo server. The guy playing the light mech isn't the bestest ever, but he's decent, and he holds a spot.... uses a narc... and even the laser pointer.

SO we seem to have all 3 of your requirements fulfilled to have a successful LRM mech.... and yes, the LRM catapult is still coming up short since the LRM nurf.

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

I have never seen missiles turn 180degrees and smack someone unless it was an SSRM(only about a 90 degree turn at most)
or when missiles were bugged for a couple of days. o.O

Dren Nas, on 12 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Rest of post has been disregarded due to the inaccuracy of this claim...

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Today, I can sit in my catapult and drop hell on an atlas trudging out in the open with my entire 700+ missiles and not even phase him.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

I have no problem with dealing 0 damage to a target in cover. The problem is, you can't deal effective damage to someone who IS NOT in cover right now.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

They're useless because they are underpowered currently.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

But... LRMs REQUIRE, LET ME REPEAT, LRMs REQUIRE you to have decent teamwork to be have a hope of being effective.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

If a catapult expells his entire compliment of ammunition 700+ on an approching mech, that should take that particular mech down.

This does not sound like somebody who has followed the advice of multiple people on this thread (and others) on how they are being effective and competitive with their lrm mechs (of numerous varieties), in not only team but also solo play and what you can do to improve if you wish to play lrms at a higher standard and be even more useful on the battlefield. Nor does it sound like you are doing what I advised. LRMs are not useless.

It sounds instead like somebody coming from a position of willful ignorance.

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Because that actually works.

EDIT: Yes, it is sarcasm.

TAG does work, comments like this illustrate your lack of personal testing on the matter.

Edited by Wispsy, 15 November 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Revorn]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

So why can I kill 2-3 Atlas with my dual LRM15 Awesome, with around 1000 missiles?

Because, u got the killshot after your Temates did their Suportrole and soften this Targets up for you?

Edited by Revorn, 15 November 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Choombatta]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Thanks for clearing that up. No reason to bother with you anymore. LRMs are only useless if useless = not OP. Glad we got that out of the way. Since your other choice is the OP gauss it's clear that you wouldn't use them if they weren't OP and thanks for proving my point. Wow 48 hours of God mode sure got some people hooked.

Yes, that is exactly what I said............/snicker
I must love God mode because I think LRMS are underpowered, but I do not use LRMs anymore......
So it must be the Gauss Rifle that makes me God Mode................
Of course, the only God Mode weapons are the ones you do not like.......
So The 2 Large Pulse Lasers I also mount on my Atlas are OP God Mode weapons also right?

Tell us RG Notch, what weapons do you use and approve for others to use also?
We would love to know which are the ok weapons in your mind, and which are the God Mode weapons.

When you can have a debate, without putting words in my mouth, fine.
Until then, by all means, please ignore me, I will have "more fun" that way.

[Dren Nas]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

This does not sound like somebody who has followed the advice of multiple people on this thread (and others) on how they are being effective and competitive with their lrm mechs (of numerous varieties), in not only team but also solo play and what you can do to improve if you wish to play lrms at a higher standard and be even more useful on the battlefield. Nor does it sound like you are doing what I advised. LRMs are not useless.

It sounds instead like somebody coming from a position of willful ignorance.

TAG does work, comments like this illustrate your lack of personal testing on the matter.

Seriously, you basically say "L2P"... after PGI has stated that LRMs will be getting a buff them in the near future?

So you use my response to your comment that basically means "TAG will fix all your LRM problems!" as evidence for what you deem as ignorance when clearly a mech that uses tag is will not give an LRM mech what it needs?

I thought we went over this already? I'm not going to dig through almost 40 pages of posts to find where I said it, you can if you want. It's there, but I'll just reiterate here.

I play with a team of 3 to 4 mechs on average. One player would run a light that used both a NARC and a TAG when we had an LRM mech.

I suppose my experience in this group is invalid since it is a direct counter to what you've been saying.

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Yes, that is exactly what I said............/snicker
I must love God mode because I think LRMS are underpowered, but I do not use LRMs anymore......
So it must be the Gauss Rifle that makes me God Mode................
Of course, the only God Mode weapons are the ones you do not like.......
So The 2 Large Pulse Lasers I also mount on my Atlas are OP God Mode weapons also right?

Tell us RG Notch, what weapons do you use and approve for others to use also?
We would love to know which are the ok weapons in your mind, and which are the God Mode weapons.

When you can have a debate, without putting words in my mouth, fine.
Until then, by all means, please ignore me, I will have "more fun" that way.

I think RG Notch might be trying to troll. Not sure tbh, but he's waving that strawman around like he might be.

Edited by Dren Nas, 15 November 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[RG Notch]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Yes, that is exactly what I said............/snicker
I must love God mode because I think LRMS are underpowered, but I do not use LRMs anymore......
So it must be the Gauss Rifle that makes me God Mode................
Of course, the only God Mode weapons are the ones you do not like.......
So The 2 Large Pulse Lasers I also mount on my Atlas are OP God Mode weapons also right?

Tell us RG Notch, what weapons do you use and approve for others to use also?
We would love to know which are the ok weapons in your mind, and which are the God Mode weapons.

When you can have a debate, without putting words in my mouth, fine.
Until then, by all means, please ignore me, I will have "more fun" that way.

It must be cool to live in your world. You willfully dodge my questions and accuse me of putting words in your mouth when that's what you are doing to me. Feel free to ignore me as it doesn't matter as you read what you want into my posts.
Don't fret, there will be adjustments and you can search the forums for the next FotM. I'm shocked you use large lasers, I didn't read they were OP anywhere and that seems to be how you judge if a weapon is "useful". I bet you dropped SSRMs as people are saying that they aren't as OP as before. t must be tough to stay on the cutting edge of OP I mean useful weaponry.

The only straw man allowed here is that LRMs are "useless". I also assume there is an alternate definition of trolling for the pro LRM crowd, anyone who doesn't believe LRMS are "useless". Much like useful and OP are the same for them.
Keep avoiding the issue and keep to the hyperbole and no one but those who want LRMS to be OP will care.
LRMs were over nerfed and need some love, they are not useless, unless useless = not OP. I get that for the min maxer they are synonymous but the game shouldn't be balanced around the min maxer ideal. I try to be reasonable, but I don't suffer fools easily and I treat them like they are..foolish.

[Wispsy]

I was never against tweaking lrms.
I have been pointing out they are not useless and many people are assets to their team with them.
A commando running narc and tag imo is doing it wrong...you would be hard pressed to find anybody who knows the mechanics of how it works and the weight limits of a 25ton mech who would disagree. Also i would like to point out you admitted he was not very good, so possibly calling targets that are behind cover, narcing people then losing los, holding tag on enemy before missiles arrive but not as they hit etc. These things will reduce your damage and cause you to waste missiles.

I have said as my MAIN and not only piece of advice. Use your OWN tag, as well as having people on your team have it if they feel it is worth sacrificing 1 medium laser for your considerable assistance. Yes I have said l2p, because you need to. I have told you how (the tone you perceive is irrelevant in this discussion, it is the information that matters) and many many other people have told you many different ways, including people having good success with builds and tactics that do not involve artemis or tag. The damage and kills of decent lrm support are comparable to the damage and kills of a decent anything other role. The damage and kills of bad/unsupported (you can be bad personally and still succeed through teamwork) is comparable to the damage and kills of bad/unsupported anything else.

Now if you were discussing this with the perspective of somebody who can successfully use lrms, when many people can so it is clearly possible, and then saying they need a tweak. NP. I do not have an issue with that.
When all you do is ignore all advice on improving your playstyle and blame the game for not doing enough damage despite your lack of awareness of the mechanics behind it (and/or your tactical application of them) and why you are doing not very much damage....well that is not constructive that is trolling for an easy button.
It has been said many times before, ignoring anything hitting you is bad and their damage is not negligible. If they are not hitting, then invest in something that will make them hit more (as this is why such things have been implemented into the game it would be silly to make them obsolete.....and making such things even stronger makes them overpowered as now they are quite nicely balanced).

WHY WOULD YOU TAKE LRMS?! well maybe to support your team, do some nice idf damage, really kill stuff if they have a tag, get your own los if your team cannot, do some nice direct fire damage without needing to worry about aiming for components, also to suppress snipers (MISSILE INCOMING makes people back away, removing them from the fight), to hit scouts especially if you are not very good at lag shooting which is required right now for many (they do hit scouts, use tag, positioning or additional lrm support from a slightly different angle at the same time) among many other reasons.


Lrms have a good balance now, a tweak of 0.1 hardly suggests they are "useless" now.


A large number of people may be finding these "useless" lrms they power down and move away from whilst still being in the open or just plain ignore are being fired by trial mechs......


Edit: Yes there are some hit registration issues on some people for some reason....this happens with all weapons, including streaks on overheated shutdown mechs. If you see somebody standing still taking zero damage whilst their armour box flashes then report it as a bug, clearly not working as intended.

Edited by Wispsy, 15 November 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Dren Nas]

RG Notch, on 15 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

It must be cool to live in your world. You willfully dodge my questions and accuse me of putting words in your mouth when that's what you are doing to me. Feel free to ignore me as it doesn't matter as you read what you want into my posts.
Don't fret, there will be adjustments and you can search the forums for the next FotM. I'm shocked you use large lasers, I didn't read they were OP anywhere and that seems to be how you judge if a weapon is "useful". I bet you dropped SSRMs as people are saying that they aren't as OP as before. t must be tough to stay on the cutting edge of OP I mean useful weaponry.

The only straw man allowed here is that LRMs are "useless". I also assume there is an alternate definition of trolling for the pro LRM crowd, anyone who doesn't believe LRMS are "useless". Much like useful and OP are the same for them.
Keep avoiding the issue and keep to the hyperbole and no one but those who want LRMS to be OP will care.
LRMs were over nerfed and need some love, they are not useless, unless useless = not OP. I get that for the min maxer they are synonymous but the game shouldn't be balanced around the min maxer ideal. I try to be reasonable, but I don't suffer fools easily and I treat them like they are..foolish.

/sigh

If LRMs were fine and balanced properly, PGI wouldn't be buffing them.

http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 15 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

/sigh

If LRMs were fine and balanced properly, PGI wouldn't be buffing them.

http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445

The fact that pgi is increasing them by 0.1 damage suggests they are very close to what they want....it has been suggested a number of times in multiple threads and nobody has really been against the idea. Including those that argue lrms have good balance right now.
Way to try and blow things out of proportion.

[Choombatta]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

The fact that pgi is increasing them by 0.1 damage suggests they are very close to what they want....it has been suggested a number of times in multiple threads and nobody has really been against the idea. Including those that argue lrms have good balance right now.
Way to try and blow things out of proportion.

Wait! If we are ok with a 0.1 damage increase, does that mean the 0.1 damage increase makes it God Mode again?

As for RG, defintely a troll,

"I'm shocked you use large lasers, I didn't read they were OP anywhere and that seems to be how you judge if a weapon is "useful". I bet you dropped SSRMs as people are saying that they aren't as OP as before. t must be tough to stay on the cutting edge of OP I mean useful weaponry."

The very definition of "putting words in someone's mouth!

[RG Notch]

Dren Nas, on 15 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

/sigh

If LRMs were fine and balanced properly, PGI wouldn't be buffing them.

http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry1429445

Where the **** except in your mind did I say they are fine? I said they are not ******* useless? So you ignore where I say in the post you quoted that they were over nerfed and need some love. All I have consistently said is they are not ******* useless. Anyways I doubt the .1 dmg increase will be enough to make them "lethal" enough for you.
You guys really don't read what anyone who disagrees with you says and I'm the one putting words in people's mouths. I'm done, it is exactly as I first said, if it's not OP it's useless. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

[Wispsy]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Wait! If we are ok with a 0.1 damage increase, does that mean the 0.1 damage increase makes it God Mode again?

As for RG, defintely a troll,



The very definition of "putting words in someone's mouth!

Hypocrite.

[Choombatta]

Wispsy, on 15 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Hypocrite.

Mind explaining how?
Because I thought they nerfed LRMs too hard and I am willing to wait and see what the 0.1 damage increase does before making a judgement?

Gotcha!

Too bad my complaint had nothing to do with just damage, and everything to do with the totality of changes in 1 patch.
Damage decrease, spread increase, and a new incoming warning message all in 1 go.

[Wispsy]

Choombatta, on 15 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Mind explaining how?
Because I thought they nerfed LRMs too hard and I am willing to wait and see what the 0.1 damage increase does before making a judgement?

Gotcha!

Too bad my complaint had nothing to do with just damage, and everything to do with the totality of changes in 1 patch.
Damage decrease, spread increase, and a new incoming warning message all in 1 go.

Reading comprehension is a rare thing to find on this thread. After putting words into my mouth you go on to complain how somebody else is putting words in your mouth....