791 replies to this topic

[skiffman]

just my 2 cents In that 48hr window running a founders atlas using cover as much as I could I would be reduced to nothing, I saw missiles go through cover almost every occasion it was the worst part of the beta and I actually got way more kills running the trial CAT (like 3-4 kills a game) which should never happen, now I can actually go from cover to cover and brawl with other mechs , i would say that the missiles are slight under powered but all this occured because artemis came out before ECM, and I would never go out in cover ever, missiles still do damage its not like they just scratch, going into any brawl already damaged is a huge disadvantage every point of health counts and its annoying as heck to get hit by em they do 1.7 damage per missle each salvo of lrm 15 is doin like 15 damage min acounting for stray missles problem is its spread out so it doesnt make the pilot getting hit freak out as much,to say it should do 15 on the left torso, right and center is rediculous,

1)Put LRMs back to the way they were (power wise when ppl were complaining) but bc ECM and AMS are out it would even it out a bit, mabey make AMS better,(this would almost instantly require both ECM and AMS to survive though which may not be bad thing


2)put LRMS back to power before that artemis patch (which was fine),

3) make the LRMs hit more accurately or concentrate more to a part of the mech targeted, more concentrated damage would be more effective, but you could still spread it out by torso twisting.

[wanderer]

RG Notch, on 12 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Exactly, people who aren't good shots or pilots should be killing those people who are. Why should the game be dominated by people who are actually good at it. There's lots more people who aren't good and damn they deserve to win too.That's balance!

Except I consider everyone I kill with a long hail of LRM fire to be poor pilots, regardless of being good shots.

Being able to shoot someone with direct fire weaponry does not equal "good at game". We've all seen the brain-dead pilot who gets on top of a ridge, shooting masterfully- only to have four people converge fire on him and the hill gets to host a funeral pyre instead. Someone who positions themselves badly is a -bad player-, regardless of how well they can pew pew. LRMs are the most punishing to bad positioning, and take a completely different skillset than direct fire weaponry to use and to evade.

We had a brief period of OP-broken-beyond-belief LRMs here with the fugged up Artemis pre-hotfix. At the moment, LRMs are on the "weak" side of balance. Honestly, all they needed to do was restore the prepatch LRM function and actually think about how Artemis should have worked- as a 1000m "auto-TAG" system that took LOS to paint targets when it had missiles in the air.

Instead, they managed to double-nerf them. This is too far in the opposite direction, and I expect to see things returned to less drastic adjustments next patch.

[Dren Nas]

wanderer, on 13 November 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Being able to shoot someone with direct fire weaponry does not equal "good at game". We've all seen the brain-dead pilot who gets on top of a ridge, shooting masterfully- only to have four people converge fire on him and the hill gets to host a funeral pyre instead. Someone who positions themselves badly is a -bad player-, regardless of how well they can pew pew. LRMs are the most punishing to bad positioning, and take a completely different skillset than direct fire weaponry to use and to evade.

I loled at the funeral pyre because I've seen it so many times. XD

You're right though. Twitch reflexes should not be the end all be all for a game. Were it so, the only people good at games would be 15 yearolds. :-/

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

I believe I have preciously mentioned that my regular group runs with a commando that would support our LRM guy. He would carry a NARC and a TAG before we stopped using missiles.

Let's see.... here it is!




I want to make a snide remark in response to your "So tell me, how often did you really use lrms? Please...do not say it was a lot." I'm going to just

So basically you are arguing with no real knowledge of the mechanics involved just now your friend is underperforming so lrms are useless? Got it.

Also you may wish to suggest your commando friend removes the narc if he has tag and puts anything else at all there for the percentage of his tonnage he is sacrificing to get the same effect. Thank you for answering as I asked though I did not look back to check all previous posts but I am glad to see you do not use them.

[Percival Hasek]

I've never understood this "LRM's are suposed to mae kills" stuff. Everything bu tthe flamer is about killing the opponent. They may be do it differently than a Ac/20 or Gauss rifle, but they are definitely about killing the opponent.

Now as for fixing them, other items need to be addressed first. Lagshield must be addressed, for example, before we can really speak to how effective LRM's are versus lgiths for sure. Right now, its a waste of time trying to hit most lights on the move. But I feel either a adjustment to the grouping, or slight damage boost might be in order. We are getting closer to the right place, but right now, we're just shy of a fair performance for LRM's. They certainly can contribute, and can get kills, but it is not just fairly balanced yet. It needs tweaking, not wholesale revamping though.

[Dren Nas]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

So basically you are arguing with no real knowledge of the mechanics involved just now your friend is underperforming so lrms are useless? Got it.

Also you may wish to suggest your commando friend removes the narc if he has tag and puts anything else at all there for the percentage of his tonnage he is sacrificing to get the same effect. Thank you for answering as I asked though I did not look back to check all previous posts but I am glad to see you do not use them.

So.... because I said "laser pointer" instead of TAG you say he wasn't using a tag?

Sorry to pop your bubble, but TAGs work by firing an infrared laser beam at someone for missiles to follow. In this case "firing" is synonymous to "pointing it at your target while it is engaged", so now you're pointing an infrared laser beam at something missiles should hit. Key words being "laser" and "pointing".... making it a "laser pointer". http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear

let me show you again... I'll even bold where I said it.

Dren Nas, on 10 November 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

But LRMs aren't forcing people to retreat, charge, or change their gameplay at the moment. I normally roll with a lance of 3 to 4 people. 1 light mech, a LRM catapult (which we're beginning to move away from now), and 1 to 2 other random mechs depending on how my group feels at that perticular moment. We have a dedicated ventrilo server. The guy playing the light mech isn't the bestest ever, but he's decent, and he holds a spot.... uses a narc... and even the laser pointer.

SO we seem to have all 3 of your requirements fulfilled to have a successful LRM mech.... and yes, the LRM catapult is still coming up short since the LRM nurf.

I'm glad that we are moving away from the discussion of LRMs being OP/Fine/UP to "zomg u used the rong wurd so u dont no wut ur talkin about lulz" argument.

Again

Edited by Dren Nas, 13 November 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Skyblade Paladine]

On the board games, LRM with a NARC are like Dual PPCs or Dual Gauss... real Mechs slayers...

But, with PPCs or Gauss... you need to AIM ... while it's completely useless with LRMs even without the NARC beacon on your target... Meaning, you're more likely to hit someone at long range with the LRMs than with any other weapon (ok, there's way to escape the incoming missiles... AMS/shutdown/obstacles... still, even now, LRMs still pack some punch, but the maps we plays on are quite "small" yet except crater... Just give some time to the Devs so they can implement some more stuff, balance the missile/laser/balli systems with the way players are using it and the way it reacts with the game environnement... and with the new components they just added .... I am sure you'll be back to LRMs soon :-D

[Wispsy]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

So.... because I said "laser pointer" instead of TAG you say he wasn't using a tag?

Sorry to pop your bubble, but TAGs work by firing an infrared laser beam at someone for missiles to follow. In this case "firing" is synonymous to "pointing it at your target while it is engaged", so now you're pointing an infrared laser beam at something missiles should hit. Key words being "laser" and "pointing".... making it a "laser pointer". http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear

let me show you again... I'll even bold where I said it.



I'm glad that we are moving away from the discussion of LRMs being OP/Fine/UP to "zomg u used the rong wurd so u dont no wut ur talkin about lulz" argument.

Again

Well ironically....

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

friend removes the narc if he has tag

Somebody did not read my post correctly, I was merely trying to be helpful. But once again you completely ignore my arguments of game mechanics and their applications and link me some more unnecessary definitions. Meh I am going to stop bothering, my points have been made you and I have tried to offer you help and suggestions which have been completely ignored, I have fed you enough troll. Shoo.

[random51]

I don't know why people bother arguing. The proof is in the game right now. Next to nobody is running LRMs. Are they doing that because Congress passed an anti-LRM bill? Of course not, they took off their LRMs because the damage potential was not worth the investment or the upkeep.

LRMs are underpowered and overpriced. I'm sure they'll get tweaked again.

We actually did run into one LRM-heavy team today, we just rolled straight forward in a group with overlapping AMS and obliterated them 8-0.

[Dren Nas]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Well ironically....



Somebody did not read my post correctly, I was merely trying to be helpful. But once again you completely ignore my arguments of game mechanics and their applications and link me some more unnecessary definitions. Meh I am going to stop bothering, my points have been made you and I have tried to offer you help and suggestions which have been completely ignored, I have fed you enough troll. Shoo.

If by helpful you mean, slathering condescension into your posts and attempting to discredit my argument by alluding that my group wasn't doing every thing possible to have LRMs be successful?

Then, yes. You have been quite helpful.

Look, you can not call someone a troll just because you completely disagree with them and are unable to refute their legitimate argument.

[Percival Hasek]

I'm trying to run LRM's..and its frustrating. LRM heavy grousp are effectively nerfed in firepower, but LRM's in low numbers simply can be ignored.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Would be nice if they changed narc to keep the target targeted for the 15 seconds now.

15 seconds! Narc was permanent until the section it was on was destroyed! 15 seconds my dyin' ash!

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 November 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

15 seconds! Narc was permanent until the section it was on was destroyed! 15 seconds my dyin' ash!

Narc as it was in tt implemented into mwo would be a truly terrifying thing to behold.....

[Salient]

SRSLY keep it as it, the game is actually FUN atm. Brawling at close range, believe it or not, is FUN.

Edited by Salient, 13 November 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[Kurayami]

yes yes i have so much fun sniping brawlers out in the open!

[Belorion]

Using/having to be wary of lrms is more fun than brawlerfest. Multiaspect games are more challenging and much more fun than games with only one type of game play.

[Choombatta]

Salient, on 13 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

SRSLY keep it as it, the game is actually FUN atm. Brawling at close range, believe it or not, is FUN.

If I want to play Doom Team Deathmatch, I will play Doom Team Deathmatch.
If I want to play a Mech simulator, I will play MWO.

I do not play Madden 2012, and say "Hey! Soccer is Fun!" and start to change the game into FIFA 2012.

[Kaziganthi]

Valdez Raptor, on 12 November 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

To be fair I think an AMS wouldn't shoot down half of the missles. I was at my atlas one time and I saw a guy firing an LRM 10 at me, and I watched my AMS take out 7 to 8 missles at a time. So if he had a single AMS and no support he'd only take out 8 to 16 missiles at best depending on the time spread to hit that atlas. So at best he took out 16 to 32% of your missiles. So that makes your under 300 damage even more wrong.

P.S. I no longer have my AMS on since currently LRM's don't even bother me.

I was being over generous in the percentage just to make my point as from that distance, I couldn't see how many actually landed on the target, apart from seeing the explosions on the mech. I also forgot to calculate that each of those missiles do 1.7 damage, so even being generous of 300 missiles multiply that by 1.7 and I should have totalled around at least 500 damage.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 13 November 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[Kaziganthi]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 November 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Or Narc... not as effective as it could/should be but hey an advantage is an advantage.

Why use Narc, its 4 tonnes, 3 tonnes for the system and 1 tonne for the ammo. TAG is 1 tonne. Also Narc doesn't do what it is meant to do, which is send a beacon location of the mech it's on constantly (IE Homing Beacon) so that LRM barrages can hit it via indirect means (regardless if anyone can see it, it can still be targeted). Basically its absolutely worthless ingame now.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 13 November 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[Valdez Raptor]

Salient, on 13 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

SRSLY keep it as it, the game is actually FUN atm. Brawling at close range, believe it or not, is FUN.

Brawling is fun, but it's not the only aspect of the game. This is a game with layers of strategy to it, not just rush to the other team and shoot at almost point blank range.