791 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Narc as it was in tt implemented into mwo would be a truly terrifying thing to behold.....

You mean, people would actually use NARC beacons. Because seriously, for every 20 or so TAG users, I see maybe one NARC at this point. 4 tons for a weapon system that only benefits for a few seconds per shot = people are gonna TAG everything instead.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 13 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Narc as it was in tt implemented into mwo would be a truly terrifying thing to behold.....

You say that like its a bad thing!

[wanderer]

Salient, on 13 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

SRSLY keep it as it, the game is actually FUN atm. Brawling at close range, believe it or not, is FUN.

I have brawlers that even when LRMs were in their Artemis-inspired brokenfest....had fun and plenty of it.

It's amazing what having long experience with LRM carriers does for you as a brawler. On premades, I'd teach other players how not to be rained to death. In PUGs, I'd just watch the other players not listen and melt from focused fire before getting 500m away from the launchers while I went to go play deck-the-Cat in my laser Catapult.

That moves at about 50kph (though it jumps). Seriously. If I could get into the middle of LRM groups with a 'Mech that moves like a slightly peppy Atlas with yellow armor damage at worst, why can't everyone?

[Joseph Mallan]

Salient, on 13 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

SRSLY keep it as it, the game is actually FUN atm. Brawling at close range, believe it or not, is FUN.

See I prefer raining death and destruction where my team needs it. It is... rewarding firing Missiles at the enemy trying to kill my team mates and smashing them to bits. I can do that at range without having to run to the next fight, and the next, and the next. I thought I would like brawling, it was what I did on TT. But here, I like the fire support roll. it's more rewarding to me.

[Violette]

wanderer, on 13 November 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I have brawlers that even when LRMs were in their Artemis-inspired brokenfest....had fun and plenty of it.

It's amazing what having long experience with LRM carriers does for you as a brawler. On premades, I'd teach other players how not to be rained to death. In PUGs, I'd just watch the other players not listen and melt from focused fire before getting 500m away from the launchers while I went to go play deck-the-Cat in my laser Catapult.

That moves at about 50kph (though it jumps). Seriously. If I could get into the middle of LRM groups with a 'Mech that moves like a slightly peppy Atlas with yellow armor damage at worst, why can't everyone?

Nah, I agree with Salient. Matches are way more fun now, and that's coming from a brawler who was making a pretty good killing back in the OP LRM days. Snipers and LRMs still have an influence, but they can't be stupid anymore. And to say that the game in its current state resembles Call of Duty or some other FPS is just ridiculous. That we no longer have to hide behind a rock everywhere we go (all the time), at least until we close enough distance on our enemy, doesn't preclude there actually being a lot of strategy and variety to the game. If anything I've seen more variety, and casual matches have been A LOT more interesting. Lights, mediums, modified assaults (fast ones, slow ones), well-known and some very new and interesting catapult builds (I saw a really good K2 laser boat build recently), all of these things are re-emerging or coming out for the first time and it's really fun learning what roles there can be outside of LRM boat, assault brawler, scout. Matches are just better, period. I can't wait for the eight-person teams to return (albeit changed.) And I really, really hope PGI doesn't put too much stock in the whiny LRM boaters who want to sit back, nag at other players to lock targets (often at great risk of being isolated and focus fired), and expect to massacre their opponents from 1000M away. Like, really. Give it up.

Please.

[Choombatta]

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

And to say that the game in its current state resembles Call of Duty or some other FPS is just ridiculous.

It is not to say the game in its current state.
It is to state that some want to change this game INTO a Call of Duty type game, not that it is now.
We currently have LRMs still.
Give some people what they really want, and all you will have are weapons that are only effective if under 100m.

[Dren Nas]

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Nah, I agree with Salient. Matches are way more fun now, and that's coming from a brawler who was making a pretty good killing back in the OP LRM days. Snipers and LRMs still have an influence, but they can't be stupid anymore. And to say that the game in its current state resembles Call of Duty or some other FPS is just ridiculous. That we no longer have to hide behind a rock everywhere we go (all the time), at least until we close enough distance on our enemy, doesn't preclude there actually being a lot of strategy and variety to the game. If anything I've seen more variety, and casual matches have been A LOT more interesting. Lights, mediums, modified assaults (fast ones, slow ones), well-known and some very new and interesting catapult builds (I saw a really good K2 laser boat build recently), all of these things are re-emerging or coming out for the first time and it's really fun learning what roles there can be outside of LRM boat, assault brawler, scout. Matches are just better, period. I can't wait for the eight-person teams to return (albeit changed.) And I really, really hope PGI doesn't put too much stock in the whiny LRM boaters who want to sit back, nag at other players to lock targets (often at great risk of being isolated and focus fired), and expect to massacre their opponents from 1000M away. Like, really. Give it up.

Please.

So basically, you support weak LRMs because it makes your life as a brawler easier because you don't have to play smarter to dodge LRMs?

Snipers are fine. As far as I know, this thread hasn't said gauss needs a nurf... did you know you can shoot farther with gauss than you can with LRMs?

And by interesting, I suppose you mean the fact that you can strafe circles around your opponent with impunity?

The underpowered LRMs hurts the strategic aspect of MWO... and it makes it less fun for players who come wanting it.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

My Catapult with 2 LRM 15s, 7 tons of ammo, and Artemis is usually top 3 on dps dealt if my team doesn't wipe immediately and can actually hold their targets. Some games I do great, others I do horribly; it depends more upon my team than it does me. I need to be defended against harassers and I need allies that will actually hold on to targets.

[mattkachu]

Narc should last longer, no dobt about that. I dont think "the whole match" would be a good idea though. 2 mins sounds fine. And trust me, if you're narc'd, that 2 mins would seem like eternity!

I dont think missiles are as bad as people said they are. LRM spammers just miss the 2 salvo kills they had, and now they're doing less in each battle while having the same high cost of ammo. Tweak it? maybe. Dont think it'll matter though. People will complain until its back to the 2 salvo of death it was.

[Dren Nas]

mattkachu, on 13 November 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

LRM spammers just miss the 2 salvo kills they had

Dead horse, beaten again. Move along.

Seriously though. Did you read the first post where I stated twice that this thread had nothing to do with wanting "2 salvo kills"?

Edited by Dren Nas, 13 November 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[mattkachu]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Dead horse, beaten again. Move along.

Seriously though. Did you read the first post where I stated twice that this thread had nothing to do with wanting "2 salvo kills"?

You still miss it. and no matter what they do, everyone will complain. Only time to bring LRMs is with buddies in organized 4 man and your internet is bad that night (or live off continent) and need easy mode.
LRMs suck. Move along

[Vrekgar]

I really wish they had not changed the Arc on LRMS with the patch. Pre-patch they were perfect arc, damage, and potency. Then they introed artemis and the new arc changes.... it totaly was overpowered. Enhanced grouping+High arc=Headshot mech city.

What they should have done is reduce the arc to pre-patch and fix the straight down top down attack artemis used. That was It.

Right now if you see an LRM boat he cannot kill you if you just move at a walking pace towards him and shoot any medium range weapon. There is NO threat to walking in open ground against an LRM field of fire. With the overnerfed arc, damage nerf, and spread nerf they are only good for scratching the paint on targets who are afk.

TLDR: LRM's overnerfed. Return to Pre-november patch values for arc, spread, speed, damage. Artemis should only increase missile group tightness from those values and possibly speed.

[Violette]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

So basically, you support weak LRMs because it makes your life as a brawler easier because you don't have to play smarter to dodge LRMs?

Snipers are fine. As far as I know, this thread hasn't said gauss needs a nurf... did you know you can shoot farther with gauss than you can with LRMs?

And by interesting, I suppose you mean the fact that you can strafe circles around your opponent with impunity?

The underpowered LRMs hurts the strategic aspect of MWO... and it makes it less fun for players who come wanting it.

Nope, not what I was saying at all. As I indicated already, I was killing plenty of LRM boats back when LRMs were OP. In fact, I was making a STOMPIN' back then. Right now, I'm doing a little bit worse, because of the four-person cap on premades.

So, person who obviously didn't get the point of my post, I was saying I like the new matches because they're more fun, not because they're easier. Pugs have a better chance, too. There's more VARIETY. There -- is -- just -- more -- fun. LRMs are still part of the game, and my teams have still been using strategic cover. Games are just more dynamic, more things are happening. Less bossy backseat driver LRM boats are telling everyone what to do, how to get themselves killed in the name of the LRM boaters' KDR. New builds are coming out of the woodwork, new roles. It's exciting. It's not the stagnant, boring, unfriendly, shallow kind of strategy it was before. It's organic, it's lively. Fun.

[Choombatta]

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Nope, not what I was saying at all. As I indicated already, I was killing plenty of LRM boats back when LRMs were OP. In fact, I was making a STOMPIN' back then. Right now, I'm doing a little bit worse, because of the four-person cap on premades.

So, person who obviously didn't get the point of my post, I was saying I like the new matches because they're more fun, not because they're easier. Pugs have a better chance, too. There's more VARIETY. There -- is -- just -- more -- fun. LRMs are still part of the game, and my teams have still been using strategic cover. Games are just more dynamic, more things are happening. Less bossy backseat driver LRM boats are telling everyone what to do, how to get themselves killed in the name of the LRM boaters' KDR. New builds are coming out of the woodwork, new roles. It's exciting. It's not the stagnant, boring, unfriendly, shallow kind of strategy it was before. It's organic, it's lively. Fun.

Are you saying at no point in beta before now was the game fun?
It took the latest nerf to LRMs to make it fun?
People were not trying out new builds left and right during closed beta?
We suddenly have more variety by having less weapons on the field of battle?

Really?

[RG Notch]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Dead horse, beaten again. Move along.

Seriously though. Did you read the first post where I stated twice that this thread had nothing to do with wanting "2 salvo kills"?

You keep saying that and people don't believe you because you said that LRMs are useless. Since I know LRMs aren't useless why would I believe other things you say? I know it's tough to go from FotM but you'll have to deal. Oh that's right you keep saying it's not about that, but this is the internets, people say lots of things. Doesn't make them true no matter how many times you say them.

[Violette]

Choombatta, on 13 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Are you saying at no point in beta before now was the game fun?
It took the latest nerf to LRMs to make it fun?
People were not trying out new builds left and right during closed beta?
We suddenly have more variety by having less weapons on the field of battle?

Really?

I would call this a crude exaggeration of my post.

Things are more fun now. I didn't say they were no fun at all.

You're being silly.

Also, what on earth do you mean by "less weapons on the battlefield"? If anything, I'm seeing more weapons. They're just not LRMs (so, you know, I can actually *see* the weapons themselves, haha, haha, derrrr...)

Honestly, if this is all you guys have by way of counterargument, then best of luck to you. I'm saying the strategy and team compositions of before were relatively (relatively!) shallow. People can try a great deal more of new things because they are not as confined, roughly, to being an LRM boat, a scout, or a sneaky brawler designed to counter LRM boats.

[Dren Nas]

mattkachu, on 13 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

You still miss it. and no matter what they do, everyone will complain. Only time to bring LRMs is with buddies in organized 4 man and your internet is bad that night (or live off continent) and need easy mode.
LRMs suck. Move along

No, you still missed it. You said I wanted 2 salvo kills again which is the complete opposite of what I said. It's as if you believe that if you keep saying it... that will become my argument.

Yes, LRMs suck. I am glad we can agree on that point. However, you seem to be glad that there are near useless weapons currently in the game. I, on the other hand, feel that is a travesty.

RG Notch, on 13 November 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

You keep saying that and people don't believe you because you said that LRMs are useless. Since I know LRMs aren't useless why would I believe other things you say? I know it's tough to go from FotM but you'll have to deal. Oh that's right you keep saying it's not about that, but this is the internets, people say lots of things. Doesn't make them true no matter how many times you say them.

Again with the insinuation that the people disappointed in the new lackluster LRMs are only after the flavor of the month?

My laser catapult is almost maxed out on XP, but I'm just scratching into the elite skills on my Gaussapult. I suppose the fact that I have a gauss catapult means that I really do favor flavor of the month builds.... It has nothing to do with the fact that I like to snipe and what not.

Violette, on 13 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I would call this a crude exaggeration of my post.

Things are more fun now. I didn't say they were no fun at all.

You're being silly.

Also, what on earth do you mean by "less weapons on the battlefield"? If anything, I'm seeing more weapons. They're just not LRMs (so, you know, I can actually *see* the weapons themselves, haha, haha, derrrr...)

Honestly, if this is all you guys have by way of counterargument, then best of luck to you. I'm saying the strategy and team compositions of before were relatively (relatively!) shallow. People can try a great deal more of new things because they are not as confined, roughly, to being an LRM boat, a scout, or a sneaky brawler designed to counter LRM boats.

Yes... I see everything except LRMs other than those on trial mechs... Actually, before the Artemis patch I saw a fair share of LRMs along with everything else. Things were fairly balanced.

And if you want to actually read through the thread you will find plenty more points for or against... because honestly, just because the game "feels more fun" for you doesn't mean the same for everyone else.

I feel more confined now because I can't justify running LRMs due to the horrid damage. The ammo c-bill cost just isn't worth it. Even without the Artemis system.

[Percival Hasek]

Sympathis to the OP; still, no matter how many disclaimers, there are going to be those who try to redefine what you are sayign to what they want it to read, because they don't want to discuss your point, they just want to make up what you are saying. LRM's are a bit underwhelming now. they need to be slightly increased step by step until they get them right..but they do need to fix some overall issues first. Just ignore those who continue trying to redefine what you are saying clearly contrary to what you are posting.

[Violette]

Dren Nas, on 13 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I feel more confined now because I can't justify running LRMs due to the horrid damage. The ammo c-bill cost just isn't worth it. Even without the Artemis system.

HAhahaha, this. This is it. This is hilarious. This is the kind of whining I've come to expect from jilted instakill machines! Well, everyone else has a great deal more freedom, if they're looking for anything that's not LRM-centred, and I've noticed a lot of LRM boaters who are happy with the changes and just say it takes more skill now, more intelligence. So yeah, go ahead and feel restricted. Whine about the confines of having to use some skill with your LRM boating and not being able to reliably rack up the kills. Aw no, you have to be support now! Terrible stuff indeed.

The economy seems like kind of a different issue, but whatever. It's harsh on a lot of players anyway.

As for the rest... Hahaha, yeah 'go and read the thread, because obviously you haven't and we have way better arguments than you.' Or something like that. Whatever, guy.

I've been playing pretty consistently, through closed beta and through the weirdness that has been open beta, and I know I'm not the only one who has come to the conclusion that the game is way, way more fun now than it used to be. I just hope the whingebucket LRMers don't bring it back down.

[Choombatta]

You remove LRMs from the field of battle, you have less weapons on the field of battle.
I figured that was self explanatory.

Again, if you want a game that you have to brawl, and brawl is the only way to play.......well, there is a plethora of games out there that give you just that.

Why can we not have a game, where all factors of strategy come into play, not just twitch action?