804 replies to this topic

[Marowi]

Zylo: I don't think the problem with canon BT faction/unit names ever had anything to do with legality. I think the issue was one of fundamental fairness. Why should group of players A have more of a right to a specific unit or faction than group of players B? That's just for starters. Then there's the issue of the storyline that PGI has planned: strictly canon or not, the MW4 "Big Four" (W's Ds, NWH, GDL, and KHs) and the Eridani Light Horse probably will play some role. They have a legitimate interest in keeping those major players out of the hands of players. I think the compromise that we've talked about is making those units join-able units within the Mercenary "house" in the same way that house units are join-able by players in the great houses. There's some complications there (I think, I'm not a dev), but it has always seemed like a good idea to me. Of course, this would also mean that the players joining these factions would have no control over them.

[Ethan Kell]

maxoconnor, on 04 May 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Exactly, none of us are upset about having to change our name. We never expected to be THE NWH here but we are frustrated in the vagueness of what will and will not be allowed. We are all actually pretty excited to blaze our own path and come up with a totally new and personal unit we can all be proud to have created. We just want to know what we can call ourselves.

The game is currently in closed beta. I'm sure when they figure all of this out they'll let everyone know. Right now I'm guessing the team working on this is neck deep in making this software ready for public consumption.

[Volthorne]

Zylo, on 04 May 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

So how many players would be against some sort of cost to unlock "premium unit names"?

Nope, nope, NOPE.

Don't even go there. As loyal as I am to my Highlander commrades, I'd rather see Tara burn than have purchasable "premium" canon merc corp names.

[Turbo Corvair]

To those asking for more detail on what will be allowed and what will not:

This falls to "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the law". The dev's clearly don't want anyone representing their player created unit as a canon unit. This means that everyone *should* play along and stop trying to find any sort of loophole.

If you are wondering if the name you have in mind will be allowed you are not playing by the rules Paul set forth. There is no doubt in anyones mind that a completely original unit name that does not in any way hint at a connection to a canon unit will be allowed, and these are the names that you should be coming up with.

Those who have a name that "accidentally" resembles a canon unit, sub-unit, nickname, etc., etc. should understand that what is important isn't the purity of your intentions, but the fact that other players seeing your unit name will connect it to that canon unit.

Edited by Turbo Corvair, 04 May 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

I see this can be wonderful news. Old league teams from way back with random names will become part of canon, assuming they field enough to be represented. I think it would be great to make room among all the houses for House B A D A S S, Knights of Apocolypse, and all the great names people hated to play. As for the clearly canon units, I fail to see the cause of the frakus. NWH or GDL are free to associate with those canon groups! Further, their standing goes UP with activity! NO MORE will someone be laying claim to something and be allowed to sit on it, not recruiting. So the more those groups participate and make those associations revolve around them, the more they have influence without the nasty overhead of control and micromanagment. Obviously there is about to be a HUGE influx of new players into these canon corporate franchises. They will NEED the guidance and leadership of those who know w t f is going on. I see NWH and GDL as having a great opportunity to contribute beyond their wildest dreams to the retelling of this story by strengthening the factions they so love. View these factions as merely containers for the units you already have. You are no longer ALL of NWH or GDL or House whatever. You are in a specific part of it. THAT part you have FULL control over! The more you play, the bigger your say. That and of course the natural leaders will prove who they are and rise among them. Time to start seeing the positive in this guys. Not everything is seen, finalized, or even realised yet. Have faith... or a heart attack.. your choice.

[Nighthound]

Turbo Corvair, on 04 May 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

To those asking for more detail on what will be allowed and what will not:

This falls to "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the law". The dev's clearly don't want anyone representing their player created unit as a canon unit. This means that everyone *should* play along and stop trying to find any sort of loophole.

If you are wondering if the name you have in mind will be allowed you are not playing by the rules Paul set forth. There is no doubt in anyones mind that a completely original unit name that does not in any way hint at a connection to a canon unit will be allowed, and these are the names that you should be coming up with.

Those who have a name that "accidentally" resembles a canon unit, sub-unit, nickname, etc., etc. should understand that what is important isn't the purity of your intentions, but the fact that other players seeing your unit name will connect it to that canon unit.

I bet there will be alot of units with unique names out there (most won't have anything to do with BTech like "Wupass Brothers" or somesuch) but some of us (myself included) like to add a bit of RP and realism (if you can call it that, immersion would maybe be a better term) and create a unit name that has something to do with the universe or the enviroment we play in.
So just for the sake of argument here would be my line of thoughts :
1. Decision. Do I go with a nickname or do I go with somekind of military unit name? Mercs can easily go with nicknames (most of them do) but I would like to play in a house, so I would go with somekind of military designation.
2. Now I look how Unit names in BTech are constructed. Most go with Number (1st to 999th) Planet/District/Location (e.g New Avalon/Draconis/Fairfield) UnitSize (Company, Battalion, Hussars, Horse or something similar). So let's say (I won't look at a unit list for now to make as random as I can) I start with 78th (my birthyear). Now I look at the IS map for some Planet that sounds good to me and choose Neukirchen (a Planet in the Davion Emagen Combat Region, also a German city). Now the sound of speaking it discourages Company, Battalion and so forth on its own ,but with say Lancer in it (78th Neukirchen Lancer Battalion) would sound ok, but I would problably go with Lancers alone.
3. Ok my Unit name would be 78th Neukirchen Lancers. wich would be fine I think and completly unique.
4. NOW I look at AFFS Unit Names and find there are the 7th and 8th Cruscis Lancers

.... am I still ok? Is there someone out there who just got his unit name taken away and is holding a grudge and want's to mess with me?
I didn't try to find a loophole. But (with no guidelines available) how can I plan anything ahead?



Now, I say it again, there had to be a line drawn. The question now is : Where is that line? Does it stop at those 5965 Units on that list? Is it enough to change one part of that Unit name? two parts? are there Words I can under no circumsances use? These are valid questions!

Some of us (I exclude myself at this point I only play advocatus diaboli) have/want websites with their unit names, they want to recruit and I would bet they feel like they're hanging in midair with no way to now where to land. And even I'm not part of those feeling left hanging I can understand them, and I think it's pretty unfair and unfriendly to belittle their fears and worries, and it's not even on the map of fairness to force them to forgo their wishes of RP and/or immersion, just so that this thread can end. Let the discussion continue.

My 2 cents

[Nighthound]

Just one more thing as this is now General discussion and not Mercs alone.

What about us house players? Are we able to form a Unit? Can I create my 78th Neukirchen Lancers to play together with my friends?

Because as of now this is my worrie, because I for one would in no way play for House Davion (even if it is my favourite) if that would mean I would be a lone wolf associated with my house and with no way to form a group within that house. I would rather play a Merc if that's the only way to play with my friends. So how about that?

[Zuesacoatl]

Quote

I've never until now been ashamed of being a Mechwarrior fan. I've essentially just been told, "Grow up and stop playing cowboys and indians. YOU ARE NEITHER!"

Ok Dad!

It would be one thing to say "You can not claim THE canon unit for yourselves exclusively" it is a completely different thing to deny variations and iterations on a canon unit's name. I totally understood that we would not be able to lay claim to the entirety of NWH. I was completely cool with it. But I genuinely never in a million years would have thought PGI would slap every loyal and diehard fan straight in the face and tell them **** off with our fan-boy shenanigans.

Seriously, Grow up. Not once did they slap you for being loyal, they are stopping people who could ruin, not only the experience, but sully the unit name is this game by making this desicion. They are protecting the CANON version of these units by not letting the fastest ten year old who clicked the button first to run them. again, grow up.

Quote

We had planned for this eventuality, what we didn't plan for is a badge of shame, nor did we plan for the inability to even suggest that we're Highlanders.

You just hear what you want to, read what you want to read... I have commanded an iteration of Clan Snow Raven through different leagues and different MW games. I came in months ago knowing I would not be the Khan of CSR in this game, nor have the chance to become ilKhan of the clans again as I was in two other leagues, ow well. I still have my family (guild/clan) and though in this game we are Spectre's Ravens, on our site, and in our hearts, we are still Clan Snow Raven. Our Ranks relfect clan ranks, our military caste and system are still run in the ways of the clan, to become a member, you must trial, to advance, you must trial, etc etc. They have not told you that you can not do that, just that your name is different in game, ZOMGWTFBBQSAUCE. Be original, if you want the freedom of selecting your targets, fighting for any House, or one in particualr, and chosing your battles, accept that you will have to use your imagination and create a name befitting your unit while in game, do not depend on the imagination of others to fill in your units history.

[Sassori]

wwiiogre, on 04 May 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Its very funny when I read responses from House unit players or future clan players that say: Why are you mad, you shouldn't get to play that canon unit xxyy. It is very funny because PGI says all House and Clan players will get to play their very own special unit and House or Clan.

Stop crying that you didn't get any cake, the whole time while they stuff cake in their mouths.

As for the "We knew all along it was going to be this way" crowd. WRONG

The quote they used to say it was going to be this way, uses the word SOME and not the word ALL. There is a bit of a difference in magnitude especially when you realize there are 6000+ in all and a few in some.

I have never said I was going to take my ball and go home. I specifically said this is not a deal breaker to me. I have never said I or anyone in our unit wanted to be THE Northwind Highlanders, we have always merely wanted to be associated with NWH.

So had BRYAN E. came on yesterday and told the community that all Merc players get to be in any of the Merc units they want, and then said NOBODY can be part of a House unit but are generically just in the house, or nobody can be part of a known Clan unit. Then the shoe would be on the other foot and the players that are Steiner, Davion, Liao, Rasalhague, Free Worlds or Kurita or any of the CLANS would be a little upset.

But instead we get true uncomprehending people posting here saying stop crying, while laughing cause they got what they wanted, and others did not.

Truly the worst sort of behavior and absolutely trolling of the cruelest sort.

I have been part of BT since Droids, I have played just about every computer version of the game since DOS. I have always been a merc if possible. I have setup my own companies, I have been parts of known companies. Sometimes I don't have the time or energy to setup my own. I instead want to step into something I am familiar with (cough House unit) like a known canon/lore/fiction/HISTORICAL unit because it feels right and its easy.

NOTE the Northwind HIGHLANDERS is a fictional unit based on a REAL WORLD military unit and associated with it as they are associated with the Stewart Clan of Scotland. As a member of the Stewart Clan of Scotland and I also have family who were Highlanders. What gives anybody the right to say I cannot associate with something that is taken from my own family and military service history? Some will take this last statement as whinging or crying, but it is a matter of fact. It is one of the reasons I associate myself with the Highlanders in game, it is family pride and heritage and respect for what that means. The NWH represent that to me in BT, I have no problem associating myself with what they represent. A lot of people feel that way about many of the known Merc units, Houses or Clans.

To have PGI say its ok to associate with X House and Y Clan but don't touch Z merc unit. Seems to be the biggest foolishness of marketing I have ever seen. Look at the url above it says MWOMERCS, not MWO. but Mercs. Yet they give everyone but mercs a seat at the table and say here enjoy the rich history of the BT universe. Associate with all these famous Houses and Clans. You Merc scum get away from the table, no food for you, go make your own. REALLY?????????

I will still play this game. I had planned spending lots of money on this free game, at this point I would rather buy more table top miniatures. Because I feel I have been purposefully taken out of the story/fiction/history of the game. When that is what brings fanatical players like me to the franchise. As an adult and one who has run huge businesses, this actually shocked me. Since why would a company that have put all of their eggs in one basket, then drop half the eggs on the floor? It makes no sense.

Our group will remain our group, what that means we are not sure, but it wasn't nice to log in here yesterday and get kicked in the nuts while they patted the heads of the House and Clan players. Just saying.

Chris

How exactly did they kick /anyone/ in the nuts? They didn't. EVERYONE is being treated EQUALLY. They are talking about making the big merc groups into factions of their own. Again, allowing those of you who want to BE in a Merc Group to actually /BE/ in that Merc Group without allowing one small group of people (and yes, a player merc company is a SMALL group of people compared to the Seventy Thousand others we even know about) telling other people: NO!

That isn't your right. Everyone has an equal opportunity to be a part of book merc groups now, this is called being /FAIR/ and /EVEN HANDED/. Not 'kicking you in the nuts'.

Nobody is being told they cannot play in a merc company, nobody is being told they cannot make their own merc company, the /only/ thing people are being told at this point is that /you/ the player, cannot tell /any other player/ that they cannot be in a book merc company.

The fact that there are people whining and moaning about this is why there's so much flack handed out to some mercs, because it sounds like you are complaining that you don't get to BE IN CONTROL of your favorite canon merc group.

If the Northwind Highlanders want to be Northwind Highlanders then /join the Northwind Highlanders Faction/ and friends each other and group up and play together. /NOTHING/ is stopping you from doing that!

If you want to be a scottish merc group, go ahead, nobody's stopping you.

Nobody's been kicked in the balls.

[Nighthound]

Christopher Dayson, on 05 May 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

How exactly did they kick /anyone/ in the nuts? They didn't. EVERYONE is being treated EQUALLY. They are talking about making the big merc groups into factions of their own. Again, allowing those of you who want to BE in a Merc Group to actually /BE/ in that Merc Group without allowing one small group of people (and yes, a player merc company is a SMALL group of people compared to the Seventy Thousand others we even know about) telling other people: NO!

That isn't your right. Everyone has an equal opportunity to be a part of book merc groups now, this is called being /FAIR/ and /EVEN HANDED/. Not 'kicking you in the nuts'.

Nobody is being told they cannot play in a merc company, nobody is being told they cannot make their own merc company, the /only/ thing people are being told at this point is that /you/ the player, cannot tell /any other player/ that they cannot be in a book merc company.

The fact that there are people whining and moaning about this is why there's so much flack handed out to some mercs, because it sounds like you are complaining that you don't get to BE IN CONTROL of your favorite canon merc group.

If the Northwind Highlanders want to be Northwind Highlanders then /join the Northwind Highlanders Faction/ and friends each other and group up and play together. /NOTHING/ is stopping you from doing that!

If you want to be a scottish merc group, go ahead, nobody's stopping you.

Nobody's been kicked in the balls.

Sorry if this sounds like an attack ..... it's not supposed to be one, but ..... did you actually read any of the Dev posts?

They said they MIGHT make Factions for those Merc Units.
They said they MIGHT put them into Houses so you can advance to them.
They said they will TALK about it.
They said nothing is decied and subject to change.

You sound like it's all done and over with ... where do you get that Information from?

Also no one is pissed because they won't be able to control those Units they want play as them .... HUGE difference. I want to play as Davion, I want to play FOR House Davion ... I don't want to control it .... I don't even want to control some special House Unit, I want to be IN IT. Same as them for their favourite Unit. Difference is that House Davion is already a Faction and can be played in while those Merc Units are somewhere in Limbo.

If you want to discuss something ... go right ahead.
If you want to argue about something ..... have fun.
But PLEASE stop making unfounded claims and go back to topic .... which (at least for me) has evolved into "What Names are allowed?"

Edited by Nighthound, 05 May 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[Sassori]

I'm not making unfounded claims. Bryan said that they were discussing it as an option. I think it's a good option, and I support it. I think it's probably a very likely outcome because it makes sense.

I also wouldn't mind seeing someone get recruited into npc big name merc faction once they got stats to support it either, but that's me.

Even if they /don't/ do the mercenary group as a faction, it's /still/ the right choice to say 'No' to canon merc groups. It is the only fair option available to them.

If people want control over a merc group, the ability to tell people to **** off or whatever then it needs to be their creation, not a canon creation that hundreds or thousands of people might be interested in.

Also: Didn't take it as an attack and yes I read the dev post.

I'm just amazed people are trying to bandy about the fact the word 'some' was used instead of 'all' and the fact that this is still in development, not even beta (Beyond F&F). So many posts acting like they were abused without the reach around... it's insane.

As for what's allowed? Anything that is original and obviously not an attempt to claim a canon group.

Where's the question again?

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 05 May 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[Nighthound]

I too tataly agree with the fact that they disallowed claiming of those Units, it is fair and it is logical to make the cut at "all" canon Units. But you assume something because you think it likely and thereby making the same mistake they did with assuming that "some" meant they could play as some .... which is, if you think about it, not that far of, but now it's "all". They are angry and disappointed and their emotions (in some cases) run away with them, which is understandable but also unfortunate.

The problem is that as of now we can't assume anything regarding Unit names and Merc Units because of the vagueness the Devs used.

Quote

As for what's allowed? Anything that is original and obviously not an attempt to claim a canon group.

And here we have the Point ..... What is obvious? How do you define obvious? Or more to the Point what is the most restrictive definition of obvious? For me 222nd Kearny Uhlans is obvously no canon Unit, does everyone think so?
We can assume that it is ok, but what if not? It seems (dangerous word here at the moment) that the CSR guys have the last word based on some reference material the Devs will eventualy hand to them. What can we do in the meantime? Do we roll the dice and hope for the best? This is the Point. We (or some of us) assumed something and it turns out we were wrong, so now we want to be careful, and ask befor we act.

Edited by Nighthound, 05 May 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[Sassori]

Ok so how about this:

STOP TRYING TO GET CLOSE.

Just make something 100% original.

It's not hard. Say (completely off the top of my head) Finn's Green Lightning

They can have the exact same sort of scottish personality and history (Cuz believe it or not, there was a LOT more scottish derivative people than on Northwind alone) but be from a different planet. It can even be a similar planet or it can be different.

My point is there is more than one way to skin a cat. NWHL for example has been going on and on about it being based on a RL army unit, and their heritage and whatnot.

Wicked Cool.

My heritage is Blackfoot and Sioux Native, I 'get behind' characters (when they're done well anyways) of that sort of background because I can relate to it.

That doesn't mean I can't make my own Merc Company, have it come from a planet of my own making, where one of those tribes took over and settled.

Nothing's stopping anyone else either.

Just be original.

[GrizzlyViking]

Units come and go. If you want to have exclusive control over your group name, then you'll have to go Merc. Some groups are into hyper-control and others are more laissez-faire. There are "purest" role-players and there are other role-players that bring their structure/style/story from other games and there are those who are just play. Organizers, Technicians, Diplomats, Leaders, Recruiters, Specialists, and the like all here. Oh and let's not forget the Dramatists! Whatever the name, it is the people that make the unit. Find the right people for your style of play and the name won't matter.

[Felbombling]

I feel for some of you guys/gals who have many years invested in your mercenary company/clan. You have spent time and, perhaps money, on various things like websites, coffee mugs, T-shirts, etc. It is obvious that you and your friends have a common love for a canon unit, and you live and play by a code reflective of their rich histories and lore. Having said that, you were destined for disappointment if you thought anything other than what has transpired was going to happen.

Consider that you log in for the very first time and are all excited and giddy. You choose your character name and select Mercenary as your faction. Then the game offers you the option to name your mercenary unit and you frantically type in ‘Gray Death Legion’, knowing full well that other players on the planet want to play as that faction, as well. If you came in second, because someone else in the world had a better internet connection than you did, was faster on the keyboard… whatever… you would be prompted with a message something like, “That name is unavailable”.

Ok… so now what?



Grey Death Legion

That name is unavailable

Gray Death Legions

That name is unavailable

Grey_Death_Legion

That name is unavailable

Gray_Death_Legion

That name is unavailable

GreyDeathLegion

That name is unavailable

　
My point being, no matter what happened, only limited groups of people would be truly happy if PGI had allowed for Merc unit names. The fact that we’re getting this much information from the dev team is astonishing in the first place, let alone their continued presence on the forums. It is clear they are listening closely to what we, the player base, are wishing for. Some of it is useful, some of it is outlandish, some of it is unworkable… yet they take it all in and sort through it.

As a last point, consider this… with this game we’ll be able to log in for the first time and pick a pilot name, select to be a House soldier, a mercenary or a lone wolf. Select a starting Mech from a list that probably will include twelve chassis and all their canon variants. We will most likely be able to pick our units and/or name them [for mercenary units… ouch… I know]. Compare that to the linear arrangements of every other Mechwarrior game that has come before this and marvel at what is already on the table for us.

[wwiiogre]

Nighthound, very thoughtful and well said. Thank You

chris

[Korbyn McColl]

I realize most people don't want to read 36+ pages of posts before adding their two cents to this discussion. So I can understand why a lot of people may have missed key dev responses in this thread. I can also understand that there are people with absolutely no interest in role-playing who can't understand for the life of them why this subject even matters. Furthermore, there are yet others who have little to no experience dealing with CSRs/GMs in online games and believe that it's absurd to think a unit name that is "completely original" could result in your unit getting renamed.

A lot of this comes down to how strictly each individual CSR chooses to handle the naming policy. Some of you who've been involved in gaming for some time now may remember the old days of EQ and understand our concern. For those that don't, Verant took the naming policy very seriously. To the point where players with what they believed were completely unique names were getting renamed or, in some cases, banned by overzealous GMs who found some obscure reference to that name. In the end, the community raised enough of a stink about it that Verant told their GMs to back off and only rename player characters whose names were clearly recognizable.

So while it may seem to some people that our concern over the "vagueness" issue is silly, or a red herring, or whatever, the truth is that when the devs say that if you claim to have some affiliation with a canon unit or if a CSR believes your unit name infers association to a canon unit you will be forced to rename your unit and/or you may be banned, it is very good cause for concern. Such a policy is unheard of in online gaming and it could spell disaster for this game in the hands of the wrong CSR (read: a hardcore BT/MW fan on a self proclaimed crusade to rid the universe of canon unit violations, a la certain unnamed GMs from EQ).

Let me ask you this:

If the membership of GDL wants to rename themselves to be a completely unique merc unit but say that they were founded by former members of the Grey Death Legion and still work closely with them, why shouldn't they be able to? They aren't claiming to be the Grey Death Legion. They are simply claiming to be associated with them.

If those of us in NWH want to rename ourselves to a completely unique name but say we are still from the planet of Northwind and put the name Northwind in our unit name, why shouldn't we be able to? We aren't claiming to be the Northwind Highlanders. We are simply claiming we are from Northwind.

To people who aren't role-players, and don't get role-playing, I know those questions probably seem silly. But I assure you, if you are a role-player, those things matter. If claiming association with something from the BT/MW canon will get you renamed/banned, you're screwed.

I believe that, in the end, the devs will remove the clause I emphasized above. But right now, it sounds like it will be included. We just want to make sure the devs understand the implications of their naming policy should they choose to give too much discretion to the CSRs. We'd rather take a list of 50,000 banned names and sift through it if it means we can be certain a CSR won't force us to rename our unit and recreate our entire back story.

But if we don't speak up and make that known, how will the devs know? That's the purpose of these forums.

On that note, however, I think I've pretty much summed up all there is to say on this subject. Therefore, I will now bow out of this conversation and hope I got my point across.

[rafgod]

Sigh.
This thread has become terminally boring.

[Aidan]

Sheogoraath, on 04 May 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

I have an interesting question: Team Banzai, the Hong Kong Cavaliers and the Blue Blazers/Blue Blaze Irregulars are in-Battletech-universe references (in Warrior: Riposte by Michael Stackpole) to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension (a particualrly amazing bit of 80s filmmaking). Now, clearly the intellectual rights to these names are held by whomever holds the copyrights to Buckaroo Banzai as an IP, unless they sold those rights to FASA, or Michael Stackpole, or whomever owns the BT license (unlikely). So, would it be possible to use those unit names within MWO, I find it hard to believe that you could run into legal trouble there, unless W.D. Richter or MGM were willing to come after you (again, unlikely)....

curious what you lot think.

Ahh Buckeroo ... one of my favorite quotes of all time is in this movie.

"Remember whereever you go ... there you are!"

[Marowi]

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I realize most people don't want to read 36+ pages of posts before adding their two cents to this discussion.

I think it's a little condescending to make this assumption.

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

So while it may seem to some people that our concern over the "vagueness" issue is silly, or a red herring, or whatever, the truth is that when the devs say that if you claim to have some affiliation with a canon unit or if a CSR believes your unit name infers association to a canon unit you will be forced to rename your unit and/or you may be banned, it is very good cause for concern. Such a policy is unheard of in online gaming and it could spell disaster for this game in the hands of the wrong CSR (read: a hardcore BT/MW fan on a self proclaimed crusade to rid the universe of canon unit violations, a la certain unnamed GMs from EQ).

I think we're just talking past each other at this point, but I'll give it one last try. You just said two things: (1) "if you claim to have some affiliation with a canon unit" and (2) or "if a CSR believes your unit name infers association to a canon unit", then you will be forced to rename your unit. (1) is the obvious and seemingly-agreed upon prohibition against player control of canon factions or units. (2) is the proscription against circumvention. This is not vague. This is why complaints about "vagueness" from the same people (from the same unit, I've only now just noticed) are a red herring, because point (1) deals with people trying unfairly to exert control over canon faction and unit names and point (2) deals with people attempting to circumvent the proscription against point (1). This policy is far from "unheard" of, rather it seems to be the mainstay of online gaming. If you want to see the official CSR guidelines, then you should wait until the rule is finalized. But even if you get to see them, you already know that you will not be allowed to call yourselves the "Northwind Highlanders" or any variation thereof. If you want to be from adjective=Northwind, then you will obviously have to choose a different noun from Highlander. Give me an example of a name you think is truly "vague" under this policy, and why.

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

If the membership of GDL wants to rename themselves to be a completely unique merc unit but say that they were founded by former members of the Grey Death Legion and still work closely with them, why shouldn't they be able to?

In other words, you're trying to be the GDL but not the GDL? Circumvention.

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

They aren't claiming to be the Grey Death Legion.

Only in the barest, most technical, and least convincing of senses.

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

They are simply claiming to be associated with them.

And policy violated! Yet you seem so shocked by this?

Devil Man, on 05 May 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

If those of us in NWH want to rename ourselves to a completely unique name but say we are still from the planet of Northwind and put the name Northwind in our unit name, why shouldn't we be able to? We aren't claiming to be the Northwind Highlanders. We are simply claiming we are from Northwind.

And you should be able to do this! I assume that you have read everything the devs have said closely, and nothing that has been said contradicts this position. However, what confuses me is why the entirety of your post before this point argues for a different proposition--that, either, the rule is vague, or, players should be able to claim or infer association with canon units. You can't have it both ways. I'm not convinced by the former argument, and I think it's a waste of our time and the devs', but if there's a really good argument for the latter that we haven't seen or considered, then I think we should hear it! We haven't, in my opinion, not yet.

We do understand that you want to roleplay a canon mercenary unit. I want to roleplay a Swedenese brawler. I will get to. I think you should get to, too. This is why I think that the "major" mercenary factions should be join-able units within the mercenary "house". That will give you the same rights and privileges afforded to us house players, but obviously you will have to surrender control. That's only fair.

Edited by Marowi, 05 May 2012 - 07:20 AM.