115 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Spinning Burr, on 22 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

BTW can anybody explain to me in layman's terms how WINE is actually different from an emulator? It converts code from Windows language to Unix language within the Unix based environment according to their website, but they are adamant that WINE Is Not an Emulator. It sounds like an emulator trying hard to market and brand itself as not an emulator. Please educate me.

So sayeth the great and all-knowing Wiki:

• "The phrase "Wine Is Not an Emulator" is a reference to the fact that no processor code execution emulation occurs when running a Windows app under Wine. "Emulation" usually refers to the execution of compiled code intended for one processor (say, x86) by interpreting/recompiling software running on a different processor (say, PowerPC). Such emulation is almost always much slower than execution of the same code by the processor for which the code was compiled. In Wine, the Windows app's compiled x86 code runs at full native speed on the computer's x86 processor, just as it does when running under Windows. And Windows API calls and services also are not emulated, but rather substituted with Linux equivalents that are compiled for x86 and run at full, native speed."
  
• "Typically, an emulator is divided into modules that correspond roughly to the emulated computer's subsystems. Most often, an emulator will be composed of the following modules: a CPU emulator or CPU simulator (the two terms are mostly interchangeable in this case), a memory subsystem module, and various I/O devices emulators."
  
• "In software engineering, a compatibility layer is an interface that allows binaries for a legacy or foreign system to run on a host system. This translates system calls for the foreign system into native system calls for the host system. With some libraries for the foreign system, this will often be sufficient to run foreign binaries on the host system."
  
• "A compatibility layer requires the host system's CPU to be (upwardly) compatible to that of the foreign system. Thus, for example, an MS Windows compatibility layer is not possible on PowerPC hardware, since MS Windows requires an x86 CPU; in that case, full emulation is needed."

What they seem to be saying is that "emulator" is (generally) specific to "cross architecture operations" software and, unlike a "compatibility layer", can and will simulate one type of CPU (say, x86) while running on a different type of CPU (say, PowerPC).

Basically, WINE and other "compatibility layers" go about a similar task in a different manner than "true" emulators, as well as sacrifice a number of the characteristics of "true" emulators in order to alleviate or mitigate certain of the "true" emulators' weak points (namely, performance speed; "if the emulator does not perform as quickly as the original hardware, the emulated software may run much more slowly than it would have on the original hardware, possibly triggering time interrupts that alter performance").

(Perhaps someone more well-versed in CompSci might chime in...? )

[Spinning Burr]

So... in theory WINE handles MS operations and programs within OSX at the same speed as Bootcamp but in practice Bootcamp is probably faster and more efficient to run MS software esp CPU/GPU intensive programs like our games?

[Caviel]

Spinning Burr, on 22 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

So... in theory WINE handles MS operations and programs within OSX at the same speed as Bootcamp but in practice Bootcamp is probably faster and more efficient to run MS software esp CPU/GPU intensive programs like our games?

WINE would be better described as a translator. It takes a DirectX command call and related parameters, for example, and converts it to the OpenGL equivalent. It doesn't run DirectX in a Windows compatible space on Linux which would be emulation or virtualization.

Not being a Mac expert, Bootcamp, from what I understand, isn't an emulator or virtual machine. It gives an actual "standard Windows installation" and just allows you to freely switch between OSX and Windows. It more or less does the same thing that LILO or Grub does for Linux.

[SPencil]

Unix & Linux > Windows > Mac

If you want to play games, use Windows. Windows is (and will be for a while, I suspect) the dominant OS in the market. That's why the majority of games developed will be for Windows (or a console). It's represents the largest market share, so it follows that a game made for Windows will most likely make more money then a game for Mac or Linux.

I'd love to play MWO on Debian, but since CryEngine doesn't use OpenGL, that ain't happening.

That, and I'd feel naughty for typing "sudo apt-get install MWO"

[DaTacoSauce]

Im a mac user and i think using this thing is the reason i go to therapy. My parents know i play games and got this mac because the dude at the store said that macs can play lots of games. *insert facepalm here* someone donate a windows computer to me please?

[Ranger207]

DaTacoSauce, on 26 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Im a mac user and i think using this thing is the reason i go to therapy. My parents know i play games and got this mac because the dude at the store said that macs can play lots of games. *insert facepalm here* someone donate a windows computer to me please?

Sell your Mac and build a PC?

[Psibelius]

There's no need to port the game to Mac OS X. Any recent Mac can run Windows using Boot Camp and the game works just fine. I just loaded it up on my late 2012 iMac (that replaced my PC that finally died after seven years and multiple upgrades) and it works great. Install the latest nVidia drivers, making sure you get the right type as most of the new iMacs use the mobile version of the graphics chipset, and you're good to go.

[Rushin Roulette]

Ranger207, on 05 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Sell your Mac and build 2 PCs?

Fixed that for you.

[Straften]

[skb]

holly war %))))))

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

LOL, HAHAHAHA...you must be kidding!

[Steve Varayis]

I got an idea!

use your Mac to KO someone, and steal their PC!

[stimeon]

LOWJACKCITY, on 16 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

all i hear is "ive chosen to be in a walled garden where I've been promised nothing bad will ever happen and they let us do only what they want."

pretty much all PC to Mac converts couldn't ever hack it and that's why they left. If you could, you'd never have any reason to consider Mac. Like driving a manual tranny--if you dont know what you are doing you will **** it up, but once you do...you'll never go back. How do you like that automatic tranny?

having said that I am going to be setting my die hard apple buddy up wtih bootcamp so he can actually join the rest of us in gaming bliss. the very fact that he doesnt know how to do this, nor care about learning how to, is a testament to why he is a mac user in the first place.

I hacked pcs as long as pcs have existed. I got tired of having to having to hack the damn things. Went Mac 2 years ago, won't go back. There's lots of games - online too - that work just fine on a mac.

[theshinyknight]

I see a lot of confusion here:

1) MEchwarrior is not Microsoft; Microsoft has the license for a porting in Windows.

2) Windows is an Operating system, a PC is a mix of components, they are separate entities. A game can run on PC architecture, Mac architecture (which nowadays are the same intel architecture); what changes are the Operating system running on it. So when you say that games were made for pc and not Mac, you mean "made for Windows OS, not OSX"

3) The engine is relevant to a certain degree....an engine uses libraries (DLL in the Windows World, in OSX you call them Libraries, Frameworks or god knows what else, but conceptually they are the same), the libraries are used to interface with the hardware; DirectX is a set of libraries written to interface with the ton of video cards that exist, so developer won't kill themselves addressing directly to the hardware. On Mac there is no DirectX, since it uses OGL (OpenGl) mainly, which is something that Windows uses too, and performance wise is not that different from DirectX (Direct3D to be precise, DirectX is the suite of libraries, while the one that control the 3d routines is called Direct3D).

If there is no port of an engine for OSX libraries, the game won't work on OSX; that's the sad truth. Very few people are crazy enough to do ports...WOW has OSX version, GW2, LOTRO has beta versions of their client for OSX, but only because they wrote the engine in house probably...I don't see porting for Rift, Star trek online and many other games.

If you have a mac with Windows on it (Bootcamp, let Parallels be, because it is slow as hell), you run mostly at the same speed of a comparable PC running Windows, with similar specs, there is no emulation involved there.

If you prefer one or the other is your thing; market wise, there are people that has Apple computers, and they play games too (just check the amount of games ported for OSX on Steam); there are even people that use Linux that play games, so the excuse that the OS is not made to play games is purely a conceptual mistake.
Companies don't invest time in porting games, if they don't see market for it, that's what drives games market in the end.

For a F2P, the risk is even higher, and rarely a game launch on day 1 with a client for both OS, they are usually made after a while. I don't see why this game won't run on a Apple computer with OSX, there may be people interested, that would put money in the micro transaction store, so why loose the income of these users?

So far thou the game is fun for 10 minutes...without a solo/single player campaign, it looses a lot (altho I used to play counterstrike, and that game was exactly like this...I spent hours and hours on that game because it was fun ).

[theshinyknight]

gwie21, on 30 April 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

There's no need to port the game to Mac OS X..... Install the latest nVidia drivers, making sure you get the right type as most of the new iMacs use the mobile version of the graphics chipset, and you're good to go.

Well, there is, because regular people do not own or download a legal copy of windows If you talk about having a copy "flying around your desk" then yeah, it is quick and easy; but otherwise is an extra 100 dollars that you must factor in it.

BTW, the iMac uses the [color=#333333]Kepler architecture chipset from Nvidia, which is a desktop chipset...also ported for mobile devices.It is the same chipset found in a Geforce GTX (like the Titan). The drivers are installed by Bootcamp, but then you need to update them with the latest and greatest (bootcamp install the basic drivers, to let you use the OS, if you have an ATI it is the same thing: you need to get the updated drivers and install them).[/color]

[ripoff123]

Adeptus Odren, on 16 December 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Let's put it this way. I and a lot of gamers I know like being able to build their own computers - and a custom rig can cost far more than a Mac. And they don't have degrees in custom engineering either (I have liberal arts degree). You can't DIY a Mac.

So suck it up, Macboy.

Let me point out the fact that there is a entire community who do DIY macs.
i am doing so at the moment and it works fine with all my games