44 replies to this topic

[MasterKarzash]

i was just in a match where three people hit a Gausscat with a combined set of LRM 10 and LRM 15. Missiles rained down and hit the cat in the center and side torso for about a minute, each one hitting and doing less damage then a single use of my Small Laser. Why cant you guys find a happy medium where LRM actually DO SOMETHING without being broken as opposed to doing nothing?

Seriously....to those of you who read this and are contemplating trying the Artemis System DO NOT BOTHER, ITS NOT WORTH THE SPACE until the devs find a way to make the missiles work properly without being OP because as is right now they wont even take out a Jenner without a lot of luck. I can literally sit in the middle of someones volley in my jenner without AMS and not have to move because it doesnt do enough damage to make me care.

Edited by BunnyBacon, 13 November 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[SerpentrasD]

Something is wrong when you see that because I blow up in a hunch form 3 salvos from hmn lrm20 I think so. This was after the bugfix.Also I see all time some jenners and other lights who blown up by lrms. I use artimes but not LRMs.

[Ragz]

if your aiming at a moving target, all missles are not guarunteed to hit the target, and if they have ams a commando for example can dodge an entire lrm slavo. even just moving as an atlas some missles will miss. nature of the beast. maybe that target had cover you were un aware of, or someone walked between the path of the missles.

and missle boats stop looking for the one shot kill with missles, it was never meant to be that way in any of the games. im sure they're fine.

Edited by Ragz, 13 November 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[dcwoods]

I run Cats and one is out fitted with LRMs and SRMs I have found Artemus worth it both for LRMs and SRM I have seen it get though more missiles when the target has AMS and increase my hit rate.

[Sen]

Could this be another product of that wonderful thing called ping? There are a number of threads that complain that, because hit/miss and damage are calculated client side, when one person is connecting from a vast distance [say Europe, etc] it is not uncommon to see weaponry hit one one side when the receiver's computer calculates a miss.

How/if PGI intend to change the way the system works is unknown at this time. Suggestions range from local [EU, AU, etec] servers, to partial or full server side calculation. Others believe that if hit/miss/damage were calculated server side, it would result in an easy way to cheat/bot the system somehow [someone with more of an understanding can clarify that, I only do hardware ; ) ]

Edited by Sen, 14 November 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[William Rahn]

Sen, on 14 November 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

Could this be another product of that wonderful thing called ping? There are a number of threads that complain that, because hit/miss and damage are calculated client side, when one person is connecting from a vast distance [say Europe, etc] it is not uncommon to see weaponry hit one one side when the receiver's computer calculates a miss.

How/if PGI intend to change the way the system works is unknown at this time. Suggestions range from local [EU, AU, etec] servers, to partial or full server side calculation. Others believe that if hit/miss/damage were calculated server side, it would result in an easy way to cheat/bot the system somehow [someone with more of an understanding can clarify that, I only do hardware ; ) ]

I think you meant the opposite - current system is server-authoritative (where you are, what you hit and how hard is all calculated by computers run by PGI). That does indeed lead to a discrepancy between what you see on the screen and what "actually" happened. As far as I can tell the client only shows damage indicators after confirming it with the server, so it is beneficial to pay attention to it - especially when fighting light 'mechs...

Another thing - I don't know how it actually works, but 'mech hitboxes might still be a bit misaligned so the missiles might be tracking the wrong thing...

[Buckminster]

BunnyBacon, on 13 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

i was just in a match where three people hit a Gausscat with a combined set of LRM 10 and LRM 15. Missiles rained down and hit the cat in the center and side torso for about a minute, each one hitting and doing less damage then a single use of my Small Laser. Why cant you guys find a happy medium where LRM actually DO SOMETHING without being broken as opposed to doing nothing?

Seriously....to those of you who read this and are contemplating trying the Artemis System DO NOT BOTHER, ITS NOT WORTH THE SPACE until the devs find a way to make the missiles work properly without being OP because as is right now they wont even take out a Jenner without a lot of luck. I can literally sit in the middle of someones volley in my jenner without AMS and not have to move because it doesnt do enough damage to make me care.

Ummm, no.

I run a Cat C1 with two Artemis LRM 15s, and 4 tons of ammo (but I only carry three - see below) and I've had plenty of luck with my LRMs. They aren't as godly as they are a couple weeks ago, and were probably nerfed too far with the 11/8 hotfix, but they are still deadly and effective weapons. I'll typically do 200-300 damage, and I've certainly done more. A full salvo (30 missiles) will strip medium and heavy mechs of 3-5% of their armor if I catch a solid hit.

Certainly, their effectiveness is variable. AMS, fast mechs, terrain - all of these things can make a volley seem useless. But catch someone that isn't paying attention, and you can really make them suffer. A slow mech out in the open is just ripe for killing.

My only complaint is the cost of reloads. I get 75% for free, and it costs me 60k c-bills to refill that 4th ton. Frankly, I don't bother - 3 tons of well aimed ammo is still very effective.

[Draxes Darkstrider]

I get clobbered by LRM barrages daily in my mechs. Trust me they are deadly if someone has taken the time to load out a heavy with a boatload of them. My play style has adjusted to the lrm spams quite a bit. I see incomming missiles and I haul *** to the nearest building or rock formation if I can. I've got more hatred for lights than lrm boats. At least with the lrm boats I have a better chance at evading their attacks.

[Sen]

Quote

[color=#959595]I think you meant the opposite[/color]

Apparently you are correct and I stand corrected. I would love to find the post I originally read this in, as I believe they had it backwards as well. . but you know how well forum search works : )

[Kaiden]

It's funny how all these people that hate LRMS boats come on the forum and lie their ***** off. LRMS are worstless now, all that hate LRM boats need to rethink their tactic

[AvatarofWhat]

Kaiden, on 14 November 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

It's funny how all these people that hate LRMS boats come on the forum and lie their ***** off. LRMS are worstless now, all that hate LRM boats need to rethink their tactic

epic first post. Totally agree, LRM's are completely useless now. If you need artemis, plus tag, plus the enemy standing out in the open and not moving like a tard to do any serious damage then there is clearly something very wrong with the system. I want to be able to do some damage to an enemy out in the open with 2 lrm 20's, If I can see the enemy myself and hes in the open 2 LRM 20's by themselves should be enough to do something. In my centurion I don't even care anymore I'll just sit there and take barrage after barrage not bothering to move until more then 10 volleys have hit my mech just so I can finish off another one. Then I'll close in and finish off the LRM boat. Also screw that 75% free refill, is it wrong for me to want to fully rearm for a decent cost? And as for anyone saying that ping is the problem, LRM's track and assign damage server side.

[Buckminster]

People that hate LRM boats don't understand how LRMs actually work. People think it's a no-skill weapon because the missiles have some guidance to them, or because they can fire over hills and ridges. Those people don't realize what's actually involved.

You need someone to get LOS if you don't have it your self. You need to get lock *and keep it*. There is the AMS - LRMs have the only active defense. ECM will be out soon - add more active defense. At long range, LRMs have a 3-4 second flight time - plenty of time for people to try and get cover. LRMs set off an "incoming missile" light - no other weapon has that.

I still use and love the LRMs on my Cat, but haters are going to hate.

[Kaiden]

Sorry I didn't think my post went through.. Spam 1700 missile and you will be lucky to do enough damage to kill a single target and you will lose CBs every match! you trolls sure are annoying.. If you aren't lying please post videos of you doing well with your LRM boats I call bull$#$#

Edited by Kaiden, 14 November 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[Vincent Lynch]

The number of LRMs it takes to down a Mech varies so wildly because you tend to hit various hitboxes. As an example, with my 2 LRM15 (no Artemis) i can take a centurion out with about 5 salvos, IF I have free LOS and the centurion shows me his front side face on all the time (which means, comes straight at me or doesn't move at all).
If the same centurion is brawling, running in circles and everything, still the approximate same number of missiles will hit (because most centurions are slow), but they will spread over center torso, side torso, front and back, and arms, and I would take much more missiles to kill it, if no one else shoots at it. but that won't happen, since my 5 salvos will have diminished it's armor so much that any brawler will have an easy time killing it with lasers, SRMs or whatever now.
An Atlas has about twice as much armor, so it will take about 10 or 11 salvos. A Jenner might also take 10 salvos, but because it's so fast that it can evade LRMs.
So, personally, I rarely fire LRMs at anything which moves faster than a stock commando, except there is no other target left, because that would actually be a waste of LRM. On a slower target, it's not: 5 salvos of 2 LRM 15, do approximately 100 to 120 damage now, with that 1.7 nerf, which is, including the spread, approximately the same damage as the same LRMs would do in TT with the "evil" number of hits table there, on which on average just 60-65% of the missiles hit.
...and I think that's the way it's intended to be, and I'm fine with that.

[Buckminster]

Kaiden, on 14 November 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Sorry I didn't think my post went through.. Spam 1700 missile and you will be lucky to do enough damage to kill a single target and you will lose CBs every match! you trolls sure are annoying.. If you aren't lying please post videos of you doing well with your LRM boats I call bull$#$#

Bolded for emphasis. If you spam any ammo you aren't going to do much damage. LRMs are a skill weapon, you can't just hang at 1000m and launch missiles at every red box and expect to kill anything.

Which is actually another thing I see people do all the time - fire missiles above 1000m or below 180m. They don't work at that range - you're just wasting ammo.

[Bodach]

To be honest I have been an IDF Cat pilot for a couple of months. When I play in a group, I work as artillery for our group in order to soften up heavier mechs and to convince lights and mediums to stop their push and find cover.

Before Artemis was put in, I averaged 400-700 damage a match with a score of 300 on a really bad day. After the hotfix last week, In a very good match I will be able to get 200 points of damage and maybe get 1 kill if I am really lucky. Last week it wasn't the LRM damage or Artemis that was causing the problem. It was the drastic change to flight path that was causing the issue. However, instead of fixing just flight path and seeing how things worked, they went way overboard and reset the flight path expanded the grouping and nerfed damage.

Edited by Bodach, 14 November 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[DocBach]

Buckminster, on 14 November 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

People that hate LRM boats don't understand how LRMs actually work. People think it's a no-skill weapon because the missiles have some guidance to them, or because they can fire over hills and ridges. Those people don't realize what's actually involved.

You need someone to get LOS if you don't have it your self. You need to get lock *and keep it*. There is the AMS - LRMs have the only active defense. ECM will be out soon - add more active defense. At long range, LRMs have a 3-4 second flight time - plenty of time for people to try and get cover. LRMs set off an "incoming missile" light - no other weapon has that.

I still use and love the LRMs on my Cat, but haters are going to hate.

The way radar works in this game means unless your enemy is in the complete open your LRMs will lose lock 99% of the time before the missiles hit now. They did more than tweak the damage - they made it so locks that were held for a couple of seconds are now instantly broke as soon as the target moves out of LOS. Also seems like they added a longer reload cycle as well. Right now LRMs are pretty much ineffective when all they had to do to fix them was change the arc back so they didn't all land on the head.

[Buckminster]

Eh, your mileage may vary. I haven't watched anyone else here play so I can't say much about their experience, but I've found them to be better than that. I got a good hour and a half of play time in last night with my Cat, and I did plenty. My overall kill stats aren't that great, about 1 kill per 3 matches, but some of that is bad pug groups, and some of that is no kill but 7 assist games. But I've also had a couple 2 and 3 kill games.

Maybe it's a matter of good scouts and proper target selection.

And for the record, I do think they overnerfed them with the hotfix, but I wouldn't call them useless.

[SmithMPBT]

I still run my dual LRM20 Atlas and consistently get 400 damage. I am relegated to a support role now instead of the God of Long Range Death like was pre-patch. But that was the point of the nerf, to make a support weapon a support weapon.

[Justin Xang Allard]

SerpentrasD, on 13 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Something is wrong when you see that because I blow up in a hunch form 3 salvos from hmn lrm20 I think so. This was after the bugfix.Also I see all time some jenners and other lights who blown up by lrms. I use artimes but not LRMs.

Add armor and ams then because you have way too little armor. I played some in a missile mech the other day and it takes around 8 salvos from 3 artemis 4 lrm 15. That's 360 missiles at 1.7 damage for 612 damage total on an afk Jenner in the open.

SmithMPBT, on 14 November 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

I still run my dual LRM20 Atlas and consistently get 400 damage. I am relegated to a support role now instead of the God of Long Range Death like was pre-patch. But that was the point of the nerf, to make a support weapon a support weapon.

It has never been a support weapon. Jamie wolfs archer was not a support mech. The mad cat is not a support mech.