293 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

Well, my opinion is rather simple (not that anyone cares about someones opinion online =P )

All players should have ACCESS to everything.

All players should NOT be able to USE everything without RISK.

Basic Mech/Gear
Tiny profit even on total loss matches (totaled mech and lost everything)

Ubermech / Gear (Endo Steel / XL engine / ERLasers / ERppc / Clan / Fluffy pillow cannon of doom)
This is where people go for the Risk/Reward. You should be able to LOOSE cash in these matches by running the risk of a damn good mech but with high repair costs if you **** up.

Everyone CAN use the gear but EVERYONE should run the same risk. It's ACCESSIBLE for everyone but that does not mean that everyone WANT to use it or SHOULD use it.

The grind is rewarding but if you want a more efficient grind then you should accept that their is a risk to it.

After all, you never LOOSE your gear.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Joat, on 13 November 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Trial mechs......
the FREE to run mechs that ern you a bit.

personaly I feel if your TEAM fails NO ONE should get a dime....just a repair bill and 25% of the exp you would have gotten if your team won..Then maby the people that play in pugs (such as myself mostly) may just have a reason to give a crap about the mech warriors on his/her team.That being said the matchmakers needs to be reworked so teams cant pop pugs to pad stats and wallets.....

this would do more harm than good. It would create a scary imbalance that would, as the old saying goes: make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Suddenly you would find your self 100% of the time on a losing team with no hope of climbing out of the pit. No, again, all should be equal opportunity.

[Noth]

Trial mechs are a horrid reason for this to be ok. They are one of the most complained about things from new and free players. Basically forcing players to play something so disliked just because they are bad is a sure way to drive people away.

Edited by Noth, 13 November 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Elizander]

This also partially boils down to a lack of information about the game. If a piece of equipment stated that it "Significantly increases repair costs of your mech by (rough percentage estimate)" then new players would probably stay away from it if they are trying to farm. It should be clearly stated as benefits and penalties for each item.

For example - "Ferro armor gives you more armor points per ton of armor so that you can equip other items. It will not increase your total amount of armor compared to standard armor. This item will take up 14 critical slots on your mech. All your armor repair costs are increased by 100%."

And then before you confirm the purchase - "Ferro armor will take up 14 critical slots on your mech. It will also increase your armor repair costs by 100%. Are you sure you want to purchase this upgrade?"

The current 'problem' with the upgrades is that you can't just remove them. You need to pay more to get rid of them permanently and they aren't always 100% beneficial upgrades. Ferro armor and XL engines are good examples. If I were a newbie and I bought XL/Ferro and I'd probably go "What kind of stupid upgrade is this? I can't maintain my mech anymore!" due to the lack of knowledge and information. Then I'd go, "WTF, I got to pay to remove this upgrade and I can't put it back later? But I already paid for it!"

As a veteran of games and BT/MW in general, all this is fine with me. As a new player, I'd probably flip a table.

Edited by Elizander, 13 November 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Valore]

Noth, on 13 November 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Which in turn would drive away more players than it would gain. Heck, LoL you can fail your way to financial victory and look at how big that game is. Being able to fail your way to financial victory is common in F2P games and pretty much standard. There are of course some exceptions. WoT you can fail your way to financial victory all the way up through tier 6. So as long as you run tier 6 you continue to make money.

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 November 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

it actually is the same thing, just, further down the branch than his. I am a decent enough player, not the worst, not the best, fair share of being cored out. I run the end all be all of large mechs, the Atlas, even in death AND loss, I still make enough to fix her to 100% and rearm 8 TONS of Gauss ammo, so, theres that.

I get what you both are saying, but let me ask you this in return.



Counterstrike works on the same concept. You want an expensive gun, you either play well and get it quick, or play horribly and get it eventually.

Counterstrike does not give you back your AWP if you save up 10 rounds for it and then die horribly.

I don't think there have been many complaints about that system.

Why is it then that you seem to think that exact same concept is so wrong implemented in MWO?

James The Fox Dixon, on 13 November 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

Good to know that you hate the messenger but not the message. I presented a valid argument repeatedly only to be trolled by you and others because you do not like the content of the message. You claim that you have nothing against free players, but your post history regarding the economy say differently. As for not liking me, bud you don't even know me to know if you like or dislike me. You take the internet too seriously because I sure don't.

The message was terribly put James. And in your case, the messenger, as well as the person who wrote the message, were the exact same person.

You seem to misunderstand, so again:

The dislike I have stems entirely from the way you chose to argue your point. Very little with the point itself.

Furthermore, there seems some irony in stating I take the internet too seriously, when you then go on and state I don't know you in real life as though that matters. Its fine, we don't need to hold hands and sing kumbaya. I played with you the other day, on the same team, I didn't shoot you in the back, you returned the favour, we won. That's all that matters TBH.

I don't have anything against free players. It would be short sighted and stupid to want to chase away people who are potential customers to a game I dumped USD120 into.

Your belief I do have some sort of vendetta against them comes more from the fact I just happened to come across your thread and pointed out fallacies in your argument. Which you didn't like and reacted immaturely to. Why not participate in this argument more maturely, then see if you still think that or not.

[SummerAmberWolf]

If this game is only for the hard-core fans of the game, I doubt it will successful. How fun is it that I'm trying to learn the game in an obviously gimped mech, losing game after game, in team where half your team doesn't even know there is friendly fire and the other half is afk.

There's no training maps or practice modes, even to use the trial mechs which is just incredibly silly.

You expect new players to go into tens of games with the trial mechs just to be able to buy and customize a light mech then play tens of games more with trial mechs just to play 1 or 2 games in that custom mech. Or you force them to pay for premium. This game isn't free to play, it's a pay to play if you want to do more than jump in a free mech and get crushed for 15 minutes.

Edited by SummerAmberWolf, 13 November 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Valore, on 13 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

I get what you both are saying, but let me ask you this in return.



Counterstrike works on the same concept. You want an expensive gun, you either play well and get it quick, or play horribly and get it eventually.

Counterstrike does not give you back your AWP if you save up 10 rounds for it and then die horribly.

I don't think there have been many complaints about that system.

Why is it then that you seem to think that exact same concept is so wrong implemented in MWO?



The message was terribly put James. And in your case, the messenger, as well as the person who wrote the message, were the exact same person.

You seem to misunderstand, so again:

The dislike I have stems entirely from the way you chose to argue your point. Very little with the point itself.

Furthermore, there seems some irony in stating I take the internet too seriously, when you then go on and state I don't know you in real life as though that matters. Its fine, we don't need to hold hands and sing kumbaya. I played with you the other day, on the same team, I didn't shoot you in the back, you returned the favour, we won. That's all that matters TBH.

I don't have anything against free players. It would be short sighted and stupid to want to chase away people who are potential customers to a game I dumped USD120 into.

Your belief I do have some sort of vendetta against them comes more from the fact I just happened to come across your thread and pointed out fallacies in your argument. Which you didn't like and reacted immaturely to. Why not participate in this argument more maturely, then see if you still think that or not.

There's a difference between doing two economy rounds to buy a lockdown weapon, and grinding suicide trialmechs for hours and hours to buy the worst mech in the game.

[James The Fox Dixon]

@Valore: What fallacies are there since I posted up the math? Your word and opinion without facts or math is to discounted. Do the math on running mechs in this game and compare it to what free players earn then get back to me.

[Terror Teddy]

Vassago Rain, on 13 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

There's a difference between doing two economy rounds to buy a lockdown weapon, and grinding suicide trialmechs for hours and hours to buy the worst mech in the game.

But will trial mechs be what new players will start with when the game is actually released?

[Rejarial Galatan]

paying for MC for a tactical advantage that the free player NEVER has access to is my issue, but so far, aside from YLW <which is more fancy paint and name than advantage> no issue here. aside from that, you get a HUH since I have not played counterstrike.

oh, and one other thing, why do people forget 1 key fact here? every player gets 1 FREE mech of his or her choice at start up. No MC cost or CB cost, they give you ONE mech at the start.

[Tarman]

[FAKE QUOTES FROM OTHER TWO GUYS BECAUSE THIS IS FASTER]

>___>

These are true, and I see the connection further down the branch. To me the issues feel more separate; I consider the access to be the F2P production model (or not but we can have other threads for that), and the C-Bills to be part of the gameplay proper. Maybe I merely don't expect as much from free stuff as others, IDK, but that's just me. I am not a huge fan of rewarding crappy play and losing, feels far too non-Darwinian, but I also know that we need the largest playerbase we can scrape together. I see where OP is coming from but it is probably too harsh to be constructive for the game as a whole.

[Duckwalk]

Or people could just fork over the cash and get a premium account for the month. No one had a problem paying the $50 for Diablo III or for a $50 game and 5x expansions and $15 a month for World of Warcraft. I don't understand the constant complaints from Free Members.

Either contribute monetarily to the growth and success of the game or shut up and enjoy your free ride.

Not much else to it fellas.

[SummerAmberWolf]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 November 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

paying for MC for a tactical advantage that the free player NEVER has access to is my issue, but so far, aside from YLW <which is more fancy paint and name than advantage> no issue here. aside from that, you get a HUH since I have not played counterstrike.

oh, and one other thing, why do people forget 1 key fact here? every player gets 1 FREE mech of his or her choice at start up. No MC cost or CB cost, they give you ONE mech at the start.

What free mech?

[Rejarial Galatan]

being a WoW vet, I had a very large problem with the set up WoW had after cataclysm. that game is dying and needs to be allowed to. Paying 15 bucks a month for game play is nothing new to me, as I have done that for Final Fantasy 11, Aces High, Aces High 2, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, but, I can see where the complaints come from, and agree on some of them.

SummerAmberWolf, on 14 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

What free mech?

it was stated many moons ago, like march or so, that you get a free mech the first time you log in <one launched iirc> as of right now? no clue to be perfectly honest. only quoting what I remember to be true back 9-10 months ago.

[Valore]

Vassago Rain, on 13 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

There's a difference between doing two economy rounds to buy a lockdown weapon, and grinding suicide trialmechs for hours and hours to buy the worst mech in the game.

Hi Vassago, I agree completely with this, but its a different issue to what I'm talking about. One has to do with how the trial grind is terrible, which I more or less agree with.

What I am more discussing is whether or not people who want to play top tier mechs which are ridiculously expensive should be able to continously play and lose badly in them and still gain money.

In my ideal, if you have no premium, and play a very expensive mech, as long as you don't get it smashed up and win, you should be able to turn a slight profit or break even, somewhere around 25 - 50K.

James The Fox Dixon, on 13 November 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

@Valore: What fallacies are there since I posted up the math? Your word and opinion without facts or math is to discounted. Do the math on running mechs in this game and compare it to what free players earn then get back to me.

I'm talking about you saying 'I didn't say that', and when I posted a response proving you did, you retorted with 'You took me out of context', and then ignored the discussion from then on.

Like I said, I didn't disagree with much of your statement. But your arguments were full of holes and immature behaviour like you asking people to 'learn2read'.

And your thread has been locked for a reason. You want to post in this thread, why not discuss what its about and prove me wrong, instead of beating that dead horse.

Edited by Valore, 14 November 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[SummerAmberWolf]

Duckwalk, on 14 November 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Or people could just fork over the cash and get a premium account for the month. No one had a problem paying the $50 for Diablo III or for a $50 game and 5x expansions and $15 a month for World of Warcraft. I don't understand the constant complaints from Free Members.

Either contribute monetarily to the growth and success of the game or shut up and enjoy your free ride.

Not much else to it fellas.

And this is why this game isn't free to play. Because as a free to play game, it sucks. If you think that Free to play should mean that players that aren't playing shouldn't have fun and should be cannon fodder for pay to play players, you don't understand the concept.

[Vassago Rain]

Terror Teddy, on 13 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

But will trial mechs be what new players will start with when the game is actually released?

The game's released already. We have massed suicide grinding to escape the poor trialmechs. It didn't work. Everybody with common sense told them it wouldn't work.

They went through with it, anyway.

Duckwalk, on 14 November 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Or people could just fork over the cash and get a premium account for the month. No one had a problem paying the $50 for Diablo III or for a $50 game and 5x expansions and $15 a month for World of Warcraft. I don't understand the constant complaints from Free Members.

Either contribute monetarily to the growth and success of the game or shut up and enjoy your free ride.

Not much else to it fellas.

It's a free game. F2P. Not F2Suicidegrindforcommandos.

[Grizley]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

sell off visual perks like special paint jobs, in cockpit toys like the nvidia bobble head for example, never, ever under estimate the power of fluff!

If you want to make money, make it free to play Inner Sphere and you want a clan pilot you plunk down 5,000-10,000MC. Clan mechs MC only. No repair or ammo cost for clan.

You will make money.

People who enjoy the game will still play Inner Sphere and you won't have a 90% clan player base. Win/win.

[Noth]

Valore, on 14 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Hi Vassago, I agree completely with this, but its a different issue to what I'm talking about. One has to do with how the trial grind is terrible, which I more or less agree with.

What I am more discussing is whether or not people who want to play top tier mechs which are ridiculously expensive should be able to continously play and lose badly in them and still gain money.

In my ideal, if you have no premium, and play a very expensive mech, as long as you don't get it smashed up and win, you should be able to turn a slight profit or break even, somewhere around 25 - 50K.

I agree with slight profit. The goal is not to just stop the progression, but just slow it down. The slow down is often enough make the player want to get better. While losing progress can often be enough for them to just say screw it and leave the game.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Grizley, on 14 November 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

If you want to make money, make it free to play Inner Sphere and you want a clan pilot you plunk down 5,000-10,000MC. Clan mechs MC only. No repair or ammo cost for clan.

You will make money.

People who enjoy the game will still play Inner Sphere and you won't have a 90% clan player base. Win/win.

yet another reason to hold onto my MC ROFL!